Cuuniyevo |
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Inspired by the recent kitsune thread over in the Rules forum, but in an effort not to clog it up more than it already is, I figured I'd go ahead and make a list of Racial feats and whether or not I personally think they are usable with Racial Heritage. To save time and space, I will exclude all feats from non-humanoid races as being obvious (with few exceptions where it may be in question), including but not limited to: aasimar, fetchling, gathlain, ghoran, ifrit, oread, suli, sylph, tiefling, and undine. Most of these are straightforward enough that I just provide a one word answer but notes are provided where I think them appropriate. As you may notice, Orcs and Half-Orcs have the most racial feats, but giants tend to have the most powerful. Fortunately for game balance, most giant feats have been written to require the giant subtype rather than just the race (so I didn't include them in the list), but there are still a couple very powerful options. Goblins and Ogres also get a bunch of nice feats, as do gnomes and dwarves.
Feedback is welcome but please note that I intentionally started this thread in the General Discussion section. =]
Adaptive Fortune: No, it requires a racial trait.
Prerequisites: Grippli.
Benefit: You have a prehensile tongue with a range of 10 feet. You can pick up items weighing no more than 5 pounds, make Sleight of Hand checks, perform the steal or disarm combat maneuvers, or make melee touch attacks with your tongue.
Amplified Rage: Yes.
Ankle Biter: Yes.
Arcane School Spirit: Yes.
Arcane Talent: Yes.
Attuned to the Wild: Yes.
Aversion Tolerance: No, vampires are no longer humanoid; they have become undead. I won't mention any further vampire feats.
Prerequisites: Cha 13, werebat-kin.
Benefit: You can take the form of a bat whose appearance is static and cannot be changed each time you assume this form. You gain a +10 racial bonus on Disguise checks to appear as a bat. Changing from werebat-kin to bat shape is a standard action. This ability otherwise functions as beast shape II, and your ability scores change accordingly.
If you wear a bat pelt (see page 31), you may choose to adopt a form resembling the bat whose skin you wear instead of your normal bat form.
Prerequisites: Goblin, bardic performance class feature.
Benefit: When using bardic performance to inspire courage in allies, you can choose to sing in Goblin—allies who do not speak Goblin gain no benefits from this performance. Allied goblins who hear your battle songs become more energetic and brave, and thus add the bonus granted by your inspire courage ability to all saving throws as a morale bonus.
Beast Rider: Yes.
Bewildering Koan: Yes.
Prerequisites: Catfolk.
Benefit: Once per day as an immediate action, when you are hit by a melee attack, you can force the opponent who made the attack to reroll it with a –4 penalty. The opponent must take the result of the second attack roll. This is a supernatural ability.
Special: If you take this feat and don’t already have all black fur, your fur turns completely black when you takes this feat.
Blood Beak: No, it requires a racial trait.
Blood Drinker, Blood Feaster, Blood Salvage: Yes. Gross, but yes.
Blood Tide: No, sahuagin are not humanoids, they are monstrous humanoids. I won't mention any further sahuagin feats.
Blood Ties: Yes.
Blood Vengeance: Yes.
Bloodmarked Flight: No, it requires that you use a racial ability to function.
Blundering Defense: Yes.
Prerequisites: Orc.
Benefit: Whenever you kill or knock unconscious an opponent with a melee attack, you gain temporary hit points equal to your Constitution bonus (minimum 1) until your next turn. These temporary hit points do not stack. You do not gain this bonus if the opponent is helpless or has less than half your Hit Dice.
Prerequisites: Frost giant.
Benefit: Your natural weapons and unarmed strikes deal an additional 1d6 points of cold damage. Creatures that strike you with natural weapons or unarmed strikes take 1 point of cold damage.
Breadth of Experience: No. Even though it is possible for a human to live past 100 years of age, it is very unlikely. There is no way to reconcile that with the feat saying, "still young for your kind".
Bred Commander: Yes.
Brewmaster: Yes.
Brutal Grappler: Yes.
Bullying Blow: Yes.
Burn! Burn! Burn!: Yes.
Burrowing Teeth: No, it requires Tunnel Rat, which in turn requires a racial trait.
Carrion Feeder: Yes.
Casual Illusionist: No, it requires a racial trait.
Prerequisites: Catfolk.
Benefit: You can take the Aspect of the Beast feat even if you do not meet the normal prerequisites. Furthermore, your catlike nature manifests in one of the following ways. You choose the manifestation when you take this feat, and cannot change it later.
Enhanced Senses (Ex): If you have low-light vision, you gain the scent catfolk racial trait. If you have the scent racial trait, you gain low-light vision.
Fast Sprinter (Ex): You gain a 10-foot racial bonus to your speed when using the charge, run, or withdraw actions. If you have the sprinter racial trait, your racial bonus to speed when using the charge, run, or withdraw action increases to a 20-foot bonus.
Sharp Claws (Ex): If you do not have the cat’s claws racial trait or the claws of the beast manifestation from the Aspect of the Beast feat , you gain the cat’s claws racial trait. If you have either the cat’s claws racial trait or the claws of the beast manifestation, your claw damage increases to 1d6.
Special: You can take this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you select it, you must choose a different manifestation.
Caustic Slur: Yes.
Cautious Fighter: Yes.
Prerequisites: Cha 13, halfling.
Benefit: You can take 10 on Bluff checks to convince others you are telling the truth, so long as your story makes you appear innocent. You gain a +2 bonus on Disguise skill checks to pose as a human child, and ignore the check penalties for disguising yourself as a different race and age category while doing so.
Chilled Rock: No, it requires a special ability.
Prerequisites: Str 13, Dex 15, Nimble Striker, base attack bonus +10, catfolk, cat’s claws racial trait or Aspect of the Beast (claws of the beast manifestation).
Benefit: When you make a charge, you can make a full attack with your claws.
Normal: Charging is a special full-round action that limits you to a single attack.
Prerequisites: Str 13, Cleave, Power Attack, base attack bonus +11, dwarf.
Benefit: When using Cleave or Great Cleave, if your initial attack hits, you may take a single 5-foot step as a free action before making your additional attacks. If doing so places a creature within your threatened area, that creature becomes a legal target for your additional Cleave attack(s) as long as it meets all the other prerequisites.
Normal: You may only make additional attacks with Cleave against creatures you threaten when you make your initial attack.
Cloven Helm: Yes
Combat Distraction: Yes
You employ ruthlessness and malice to command other races of goblinoids to do your bidding.
Prerequisites: Cha 13, hobgoblin.
Benefit: You receive a +5 competence bonus on Knowledge (local) checks and Charisma-based skill checks regarding other goblinoids. If you have the Leadership feat, treat your leadership score as 2 higher when taking followers or a cohort with the goblinoid subtype.
Cooperative Rend: No, it requires a special attack.
You have sickened, rotting flesh from some deformity or vestigial limb that has turned fetid and necrotic, yet refuses to heal or fall off.
Prerequisites: Con 15, 6 HD, ogre.
Benefit: You gain the stench special ability (DC 10 + 1/2 your HD + your Constitution modifier).
Courageous Resolve: No, it requires one of two racial traits.
Dangerous Tail: No, the flavor-text says you train your tail to become a weapon. It does not give you a tail to use.
Dark Adept: No, the flavor-text AND the Benefit text speak of "additional" and "new" spell-like abilities. As a human, you don't have SLA's for the feat to add to. If those two words were not there, I would say yes.
Deafening Explosion: Yes.
Deathless Initiate: Yes.
Deathless Master: Yes.
Deathless Zealot: Yes.
Demoralizing Lash: Yes.
Dented Helm: Yes.
Derro Magister: No, the flavor-text AND the Benefit text speak of "additional" spell-like abilities. As a human, you don't have SLA's for the feat to add to. If those two words were not there, I would say yes.
Desperate Swing: Yes.
Destroyer's Blessing: Yes.
Dire Bat Shape: In my opinion, no. See "Bat Shape" above for my reasoning.
Discerning Eye: Yes.
Diverse Palate: Yes.
Dog Killer, Horse Hunter: Yes.
Dog-Sniff Hate: Yes.
You possess some of the qualities of your dragon ancestors.
Prerequisites: Kobold.
Benefit: Your scales take on the color and some of the resistances of one of the chromatic dragons. Choose one of the following chromatic dragon types: black (acid), blue (electricity), green (acid), red (fire), or white (cold). Your scales take on the color of that dragon, and you gain resistance 5 to the dragon color’s corresponding energy type.
Special: If you have the dragon-scaled racial trait, your scale color does not change and you gain a +1 natural armor bonus instead.
Draconic Breath: Debatable. See "Draconic Aspect".
You possess draconic defenses and wings that allow you to glide.
Prerequisites: Draconic Aspect, kobold.
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus against sleep and paralysis effects. You grow a pair of wings that you can use to fall and glide at a safe pace. You can make a DC 15 Fly check to fall safely from any height without taking falling damage, as if using feather fall. When falling safely, you may make an additional DC 15 Fly check to glide, moving 5 feet laterally for every 20 feet you fall.
Special: If you have the gliding wings racial trait, you don't need to make a Fly check to glide, and you can move 10 feet laterally for every 20 feet you fall.
Draconic Magic: Debatable. See "Draconic Aspect".
Draconic Paragon: Debatable. See "Draconic Aspect".
Drow Nobility: No, it requires the ability to use drow spell-like abilities.
Earth Child Style: No, it and its enhancement feats require a racial trait.
Earthtouched: Yes.
Effortless Trickery: Yes.
Elven Accuracy: Yes.
Elven Battle Training: Yes.
Although you are of mixed heritage, you are closer to your elven relatives and the magic in their blood flows freely in your veins.
Prerequisites: Half-elf.
Benefit: You possess the elven magic racial trait of the elves, granting you a +2 racial bonus on caster level checks made to overcome spell resistance. In addition, you receive a +2 racial bonus on Spellcraft checks made to identify the properties of magic items. Alternatively, you can instead gain any one racial trait that elves can exchange for the elven magic racial trait.
Special: You can only take this feat at 1st level. If you take this feat, you cannot take the Human Spirit feat.
Empathy: No, its function specifically requires that you have a special quality.
Exile's Path: Yes.
Expanded Resistance: No, it requires a racial trait.
Extra Croaking: No, it requires a special ability.
Extra Feature: No, it requires a special ability.
Extra Gnome Magic: No, it requires racial spell-like abilities.
Fast Change: No, it requires a special ability.
Feline Grace.: Yes.
Ferocious Action, Ferocious Resolve, Ferocious Tenacity: No, it requires a racial trait.
Ferocious Summons: I think so. The flavor-text references ferocity but doesn't seem to require the racial trait. Anyone can be fierce.
Fetid Breath: Yes, see "Corrupted Flesh".
Fight On: Yes.
Final Embrace, Final Embrace Horror, Final Embrace Master: No, naga and serpentfolk are not humanoids. Serpentfolk are monstrous humanoids but that's not the same thing. I won't mention any further serpentfolk feats. You may be able to find another way to gain the constrict special attack to qualify (such as with the Anaconda's Coils), but not through Racial Heritage.
Fire God's Blessing: Yes.
Fire Hand: Yes.
Fire Tamer: Yes.
Flame Heart: Yes.
Focusing Blow: Yes.
Foment the Blood: Yes.
Fortunate One: No, it requires a racial trait.
Fox Shape: Debatable. I think so.
Giant Killer: Yes.
Giant Steps: No, it requires a racial trait.
Gift of Sight: Yes. Gross, but yes.
Gluttonous Gobbler: Yes, ogres are humanoids and it is easy to become large.
Gnawer: Yes.
Gnome Trickster: No, it requires a racial trait.
Gnome Weapon Focus: Yes.
Goblin Cleaver: Yes.
Goblin Gunslinger: Yes, but it's almost definitely not useful. It would only do you any good if you were first reduced in size.
Gore Fiend: Yes.
You gain a new spell-like ability from the list of duergar racial traits.
Prerequisites: Duergar.
Benefit: Choose one spell-like ability that is usable once per day and is granted by a duergar racial trait you don’t have. You can use that spell-like ability once per day, with a caster level equal to your character level.
Special: You can take this feat multiple times. Each time you do, you must select a spell-like ability that’s usable once per day from a different duergar racial trait.
Great Hatred: No, it requires a racial trait.
Great Rend: No, it requires a special attack.
Greater Drow Nobility: No, see "Drow Nobility".
Groundling: No, it requires a racial trait.
Grudge Fighter: Yes.
Guardian of the Wild: Yes.
Guardian of Tradition: No, girtablalu are not humanoids. They are monstrous humanoids. I won't mention any further girtablalu feats.
Half-Drow Paragon: No, it requires racial traits.
You have honed your racial talent for slingcraft.
Prerequisites: Halfling.
Benefit: You gain a +1 racial bonus on attack rolls made using a sling.
Hard-Headed: Yes.
Helpless Prisoner: Yes.
Hobgoblin Discipline: Yes.
Horde Charge: Yes.
Human Spirit: Yes. Funny, but yes and it seems to stack with a human's extra skill ranks.
Icy Stare: Yes, see "Born of Frost".
Improved Drow Nobility: No, see "Drow Nobility".
Improved Low Blow: No, it requires a racial trait.
Improved Stonecunning: No, it requires a racial trait.
Improved Umbral Scion: No, see "Drow Nobility".
Innate Flexibility: No, it requires racial spell-like abilities.
Invoke Primal Instinct: Yes.
Ironguts: Yes.
Ironhide: Yes.
Keen Scent: Yes.
Kobold Ambusher: Yes.
Kobold Confidence: Yes.
Kobold Sniper: Yes.
Lead From the Back: Yes.
Leaf Singer: Yes.
Ledge Walker: No, it requires a racial trait.
Letter Fury: Yes.
You gain unusual resiliency from your mortal heritage.
Prerequisites: Dhampir.
Benefit: You are healed by channeled positive energy used to heal living creatures and channeled negative energy used to heal undead, but both only heal half the normal amount. You still take damage from positive energy used to harm undead, such as that from channeled energy and lay on hands.
Life's Blood: Yes.
Light Step: Yes.
You remain briefly translucent after losing invisibility.
Prerequisites: Duergar.
Benefit: When your invisibility ends, you gain concealment for 1 round per minute of duration the invisibility effect had remaining (minimum 1 round). This only occurs if the invisibility is from your racial spell-like ability or a spell you cast. Effects that negate invisibility negate this concealment.
Long-Nose Form: I don't think so, as humans generally don't refer to themselves as having a beak, which is a major part of the feat. Yes, there is slang but no, I wouldn't allow it.
Lucky Halfling: Yes.
Lucky Healer: No, it requires a racial trait.
Lucky Strike: No, it requires a racial trait.
Mage of the Wild: Yes.
Magical Tail: Debatable. I think so.
Master of Wonders: Yes, the Wonderseekers accept members of other races.
Merciless Magic: Yes.
Merciless Precision: Yes.
Mighty Bite: No, it requires a special attack.
Mixed Scales: Debatable. See "Draconic Aspect".
You inherit a special boon from your hag parent.
Prerequisites: Changeling.
Benefit: Your dark legacy manifests in one of the following ways. You choose the manifestation when you choose the feat, and once selected it cannot be changed.
Hag Claws (Ex): You gain a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls with your claws.
Surprisingly Tough (Ex): Your natural armor bonus increases by +1.
Uncanny Resistance (Su): You gain spell resistance equal to 6 + your character level.
Special: You can gain this feat up to three times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, you must select a different manifestation.
Multitalented Mastery: No, it requires a racial trait.
Natural Charmer: Yes.
Natural Jouster: No, centaurs are monstrous humanoids, not humanoids. I won't mention any further centaur feats.
You have removed yourself from your heritage so thoroughly that even magic does not recognize you.
Prerequisites: Exile’s Path, Seen and Unseen, character level 11th, half-elf.
Benefit: You are not considered elven or human for the purpose of harmful spells or effects based on your type, like a bane weapon or a ranger’s favored enemy class feature.
Night Stalker: Yes, if you can get darkvision and large size.
Nimble Striker: No, it requires a racial trait.
Noble Spell Resistance: No, see "Drow Nobility".
Ogre Crush: Yes, if you become large.
Orc Hewer: Yes.
Orc Weapon Expertise: Yes.
Pack Rat: Yes.
Pass for Human: Yes. Funny, but yes. Regardless, this doesn't actually provide any benefit to most humans because they already look like a human. The Disguise bonus is only for appearing as a human instead of your actual race. The only instance where this would actually help you would be if you took Racial Heritage: Half-Elf, Exile's Path, Seen and Unseen, Neither Elf nor Human, and Pass for Human. This would lead to you appearing to be completely human while counting only as a half-elf for the purpose of bane effects and favored enemy bonuses. Devious, convoluted, and apparently legal. To take it a step further, you could start as a half-orc because they're allowed to take feats intended for humans, like Racial Heritage. ;P
Quick at Hand: Yes.
Raging Brute: Yes.
Raging Regeneration: No, it requires a special ability.
Razortusk: Yes.
Realistic Likeness: No, it requires a racial ability.
Redeemed Kobold: Debatable, see "Draconic Aspect".
Regenerate Muscles: No, it requires a special ability.
Resilient Brute: Yes.
Resolute Rager: Yes.
Risky Striker: Yes.
Roll With It: Yes. Funny, but yes.
Saddle Shrieker: Yes.
Savage Critical: Yes.
Scaled Disciple: Yes.
Scavenger's Eye: Yes.
Sea Hunter: Yes.
Seen and Unseen: Yes.
Shadow Caster: Yes.
Shadowy Dash: Yes.
Shared Insight: Yes.
Shared Manipulation: Yes.
Sharpclaw: Yes.
Sharptooth: Yes.
Shatterspell: Yes.
Sleep Venom: No, it requires a racial ability.
Slurk Rider: Yes.
Smash: Yes.
Smell Fear: Yes.
Snapping Jaws: Yes.
Sociable: Yes.
Sonic Croak: No, it requires a racial ability.
Spider Climber: Yes.
Spider Summoner: Yes.
Spirit of the Wild: Yes.
Spit Venom: Yes.
Sprinting Troll: No, it requires a special ability.
Stabbing Shot: Yes.
Steel Soul: No, it requires a racial trait.
You can hold yourself as still as a statue, evading detection.
Prerequisites: Svirfneblin.
Benefit: By spending 5 rounds finding a suitable location, you can hold yourself so still that you appear to be a Small object such as a pile of rocks. This allows you to make a Stealth check without cover or concealment, as long as you do not move or take any other actions.
Stone Awareness: Yes, stone giants are humanoids.
Stone Magic: No, even if you had a way to survive long enough, as a human you would not have a way to gain the stone giants' spell-like abilities the rules-text references this feat being in addition to.
Stone Singer: Yes.
Stone Soul: No, humans don't have a natural armor bonus to increase.
Stone-Faced: Yes.
Your attunement to storms grants you immunity to some of their effects.
Prerequisites: Cloud or storm giant.
Benefit: You gain immunity to electricity.
Your weapons channel the fury of thunderstorms.
Prerequisites: Storm Soul, cloud or storm giant.
Benefit: You can transfer the power of storms from your body to any metal melee weapons you wield, dealing an additional 1d6 points of electricity damage.
Stunning Croak: No, it requires a racial ability.
Sure and Fleet: No, it requires a racial trait.
Sure on Ice: Yes.
Surprise Strike: Yes.
Swift Kitsune Shapechanger: No, it modifies a special ability humans don't have.
Swift Swimmer: Not unless you can gain a swim speed.
Sympathetic Rage: Yes.
Tail Terror: Debated in the past, but generally agreed to be no. Humans do not have the right kind of "tail" to slap with, regardless of how strong it became. You would need another method of gaining a tail before being able to benefit from this feat.
Tangle Feet: Not unless you reduce your size to Small or smaller.
Tantrum: Yes.
Taskmaster: Yes.
Tenacious Survivor: Yes.
Tengu Raven Form: Yes, see "Tengu Wings".
You can grow wings that allow you to fly.
Prerequisites: Character level 5th, tengu.
Benefit: Once per day, you can sprout a pair of giant black crow’s wings, granting you a fly speed of 30 feet (average maneuverability). This spell-like ability otherwise functions as beast shape I (though you do not gain any other benefits of that spell) with a caster level equal to your level.
Terrorizing Display: Yes.
Thrill of the Kill: Yes.
Throat Pouch: No, it requires a racial ability.
Threatening Illusion: Yes.
Tough as Iron: Yes.
Toxic Recovery: No, it requires a racial trait.
Trap Wrecker: Yes.
Tree Hanger: No, you have to have a proper tail, which this feat does not provide.
Tunnel Rat: No, it requires a racial trait.
Twin Thunders, Twin Thunders Flurry, Twin Thunders Master: No, it requires a racial trait.
Umbral Scion: No, see "Drow Nobility".
Uncanny Defense: Yes.
Your heritage is strange or difficult to trace, and people fear your otherworldly powers.
Prerequisites: Changeling.
Benefit: Your mother was part of a powerful hag coven, and it shows when you are near your kin. As long as you are within 30 feet of at least two other changelings, you gain a +2 bonus on concentration checks and dispel checks. If at least two of these changelings also have this feat, these bonuses increase to +4.
Special: This version of Unusual Origin is a teamwork feat.
Your heritage is strange or difficult to trace, and people fear your otherworldly powers.
Prerequisites: Dhampir.
Benefit: Your undead progenitor left you with more than a hint of vampiric nature. You gain a natural bite attack that deals 1d4 points of damage. Once per day upon making a successful bite attack, you can choose to deal an additional 1d4 points of bleed damage to the creature struck.
Special: You can only select this feat at 1st level.
Your heritage is strange or difficult to trace, and people fear your otherworldly powers.
Prerequisites: Gillman.
Benefit: As a so-called “Low Azlanti,” you have abilities supposedly tied to mysterious ancestors who still watch over you and your ilk. Your divination spells and spell-like abilities manifest at 1 caster level higher. In addition, once per day while fully immersed in water, you can cast augury as a spell-like ability.
Vampiric Companion: No, it grants traits to your animal companion or familiar related to your own weaknesses, which humans don't have.
Vandal: Yes.
Vast Hatred: No, it requires a racial trait.
Veiled Vileness: Yes.
Vestigial Head: Yes.
Vulpine Pounce: No, see "Swift Kitsune Shapechanger".
War Singer: Yes.
Warleader's Rage: Yes.
Warmonger: Yes.
Well-Prepared: Yes.
Witty Feint: Yes.
M1k31 |
Life-Dominant Soul:
You gain unusual resiliency from your mortal heritage.
Prerequisites: Dhampir.
Benefit: You are healed by channeled positive energy used to heal living creatures and channeled negative energy used to heal undead, but both only heal half the normal amount. You still take damage from positive energy used to harm undead, such as that from channeled energy and lay on hands.
: No, I don't think so. The rules-text says "you still take damage from positive energy used to…". Since you aren't actually a dhampir, this rule isn't met.
I want to point out that technically by RAW in the text you have given it specifies that "you" are hurt by positive energy used to "harm undead", it does not state the undead targeted is/needs to be "you", or that you yourself must be undead.
In other words, I believe you have taken this as RAI, while RAW can be interpreted as your character takes damage when you:
A. use your own lay on hands/channel to harm undead.
B. are mistakenly targeted by a paladin using lay on hands, though why/how such a situation would occur I have no idea.
C. are in an area affected by a cleric attempting to damage undead with their channeling.
D. any other situation where "positive energy" and "harming undead" are specifically called out in an attack that ends up hitting you or including you in its field of effect.
Not that this really changes much and makes this desirable for a human to have... unless you somehow see yourself in a campaign full of negative energy healing and perhaps short on positive energy channeling/healing.
Cuuniyevo |
@M1k31:
I don't read the feat as being written to give you a weakness, and that it instead says you still have the preexisting weakness. Since you don't actually have that preexisting weakness, I don't think you can take the feat. As you say, the point is fairly moot as nobody would want to take this feat on their human character.
@bbt:
Hmmm, I don't actually play in PFS, but Archives of Nethys is an easy way to check. Some feats that would be simple to call out as not allowed in PFS would be any that are for a non-PFS race, including:
android, boggard, catfolk, changeling, drow, duergar, giant, gillman, hobgoblin, kobold, merfolk, ogre, orc, svirfneblin, and troll.
Orcish feats are the only ones that would have an exception because half-orcs can take some of those.
Kalindlara Contributor |
Re: Mother's Gift
If you can swing the flavor, the Natural Armor bonus IS an option. Natural Armor Bonus is explicitly considered to be 0 if a creature isn't listed as having one.
PSA: This is also relevant for changelings who have the hag magic alternate racial trait from Inner Sea Races, which replaces natural armor. ^_^
M1k31 |
@M1k31:
I don't read the feat as being written to give you a weakness, and that it instead says you still have the preexisting weakness. Since you don't actually have that preexisting weakness, I don't think you can take the feat. As you say, the point is fairly moot as nobody would want to take this feat on their human character.
My point was more that if the PC and GM can agree to give the character the weakness in the first place(which would most likely mean you take it at level one or have a particular back story in mind for the character), then it seems to work out... I could see using it for some kind of Stockholm syndrome backstory for a cleric, monk, or paladin... getting a GM to give you a special weakness seems easy enough.
Chris Lambertz Community & Digital Content Director |
Cuuniyevo |
@kyrt-ryder and Starbuck_II:
Hmm, good to know about the natural armor rule. I'd just like to point out that none of my suggestions above were made with any regard to game-balance. Even if I did think stoneskin would be a problem (I don't), I wouldn't have ruled against it for that reason. I just thought that you had to have some before you could "increase" it. Thanks for the heads-up!
Speaking of balance though, Born of Frost could be downright terrifying with the right build.
@Natan Linggod 327:
Good call, I had forgotten about that. Kind of embarrassing considering one of my players is playing a Witch at the moment. >_<
@M1k31:
That could be interesting. While making the list I was actually thinking of how interesting it would be to play a character with Racial Heritage: Goblin who wants to organize and improve his cousins' lot in life. Generally speaking, I'm willing to ignore or set aside a rule for the sake of RP, but it's nice when you can have your cake and eat it too. ;P
@Chris Lambertz:
You do good work, thanks! :D
graystone |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
LOL. I WAS going to reply to LazarX but Chris took care of issue. Thanks!
Catfolk Exemplar: Blood of Dragons race trait. allows first Option.
Chilled Rock: 3rd-Tier Champion Path Ability Mighty Hurler gains you rock Throwing. Goliath Druid's can also gain the ability long enough to be 'permanent'.
Cooperative Rend/Great Rend: Goliath Druid's can also gain the ability long enough to be 'permanent'.
Dark Adept/Derro Magister/Drow Nobility/Greater Drow Nobility/ect: Pick one out of dozens of traits that grant you a spell like ability like The Lantern Bearer [cast light three times per day as a spell-like ability]. Unless it says racial SLA, any is good. Also see many classes tht grant SLA's.
Mighty Bite: see rend above + adopted[tusked]
Raging Regeneration/Regenerate Muscles/Sprinting Troll: Goliath Druid's can also gain the ability long enough to be 'permanent'.
Stone magic: Agent of the Grave + turning undead. Sure there are other ways to get 700+ years old.
Tree Hanger+: Fleshwarped Scorpion's Tail, Monkey Belt, Gelugon Armor, Cloak of the Manta Ray or almost any druid that can take an animal form gets you a tail. Works for any feat that needs a tail.
It just take a bit of work to make most racial feats workable. Most racial features are possible with a little work and research.
Kalindlara Contributor |
graystone |
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I had always wondered about things other than ability score increases becoming "permanent". Do you have a rules citation I can refer to?
There isn't a a rule as far as I know. It just says "Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus, or other quality designated in order to select or use that feat." This tends to vary from DM to Dm from needing the ability to be "permanent" as used for ability scores to having a "reliable means" to use the ability "every day" like in the Fly skill.
So for things like this debate, I err on the more conservative side and show the "permanent" solutions even though I'm more on the "reliable means" side.
Derklord |
There isn't a a rule as far as I know. It just says "Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus, or other quality designated in order to select or use that feat." This tends to vary from DM to Dm from needing the ability to be "permanent" as used for ability scores to having a "reliable means" to use the ability "every day" like in the Fly skill.
There is one official ruling I know of: Jason Bulmahn has said in the brawler playtest thread "A brawler can use the feats granted by brawler's flurry to qualify for other feats, but can only use those other feats when using brawler's flurry (as that's the only time she actually meets those prerequisites)."
That in the very least supports the "reliably each day = valid as prereq" side.Pounce |
Why would the oread's Stony Step and the sylph's Airy Step not be allowed?
Solely because Racial Heritage specifies that you choose another humanoid race, and races such as Sylphs and Oreads are outsiders (native) - admittedly with very humanoid features. It is a bit pedantic, but sadly that's how it seems to work.
graystone |
Quorlox wrote:Why would the oread's Stony Step and the sylph's Airy Step not be allowed?Solely because Racial Heritage specifies that you choose another humanoid race, and races such as Sylphs and Oreads are outsiders (native) - admittedly with very humanoid features. It is a bit pedantic, but sadly that's how it seems to work.
You can get them, just not from the feat. Take Mostly Human for your ifrits, oreads, sulis, sylphs, and undines and now they count as humanoid (human) as well as outsider (native) for all purposes. This would allow you to pick up Stony Step and the Airy Step with your original starting race and you could pick up Racial Heritage to count as another kind of humanoid in addition to human and an outsider.
LazarX |
Pounce wrote:You can get them, just not from the feat. Take Mostly Human for your ifrits, oreads, sulis, sylphs, and undines and now they count as humanoid (human) as well as outsider (native) for all purposes. This would allow you to pick up Stony Step and the Airy Step with your original starting race and you could pick up Racial Heritage to count as another kind of humanoid in addition to human and an outsider.Quorlox wrote:Why would the oread's Stony Step and the sylph's Airy Step not be allowed?Solely because Racial Heritage specifies that you choose another humanoid race, and races such as Sylphs and Oreads are outsiders (native) - admittedly with very humanoid features. It is a bit pedantic, but sadly that's how it seems to work.
For that logic to work the charater in question would have to be able to take a feat called Racial Heritage:Race with Take Mostly Human Feat.
graystone |
graystone wrote:For that logic to work the charater in question would have to be able to take a feat called Racial Heritage:Race with Take Mostly Human Feat.Pounce wrote:You can get them, just not from the feat. Take Mostly Human for your ifrits, oreads, sulis, sylphs, and undines and now they count as humanoid (human) as well as outsider (native) for all purposes. This would allow you to pick up Stony Step and the Airy Step with your original starting race and you could pick up Racial Heritage to count as another kind of humanoid in addition to human and an outsider.Quorlox wrote:Why would the oread's Stony Step and the sylph's Airy Step not be allowed?Solely because Racial Heritage specifies that you choose another humanoid race, and races such as Sylphs and Oreads are outsiders (native) - admittedly with very humanoid features. It is a bit pedantic, but sadly that's how it seems to work.
Mostly Human isn't a feat. It's an alternate racial trait from Inner Sea Races. It works like Pass for Human for tieflings [inner seas races] and Scion of Humanity for aasimars [ARG].
LazarX |
LazarX wrote:Mostly Human isn't a feat. It's an alternate racial trait from Inner Sea Races. It works like Pass for Human for tieflings [inner seas races] and Scion of Humanity for aasimars [ARG].graystone wrote:For that logic to work the charater in question would have to be able to take a feat called Racial Heritage:Race with Take Mostly Human Feat.Pounce wrote:You can get them, just not from the feat. Take Mostly Human for your ifrits, oreads, sulis, sylphs, and undines and now they count as humanoid (human) as well as outsider (native) for all purposes. This would allow you to pick up Stony Step and the Airy Step with your original starting race and you could pick up Racial Heritage to count as another kind of humanoid in addition to human and an outsider.Quorlox wrote:Why would the oread's Stony Step and the sylph's Airy Step not be allowed?Solely because Racial Heritage specifies that you choose another humanoid race, and races such as Sylphs and Oreads are outsiders (native) - admittedly with very humanoid features. It is a bit pedantic, but sadly that's how it seems to work.
The point is the name of the feat is Racial Heritage:Race Not Racial Heritage:Customised Race Character.
graystone |
The point is the name of the feat is Racial Heritage:Race Not Racial Heritage:Customised Race Character.
Sorry, I don't understand your point. You seem to have a visceral dislike of the feat for some reason.
My point is that a character with Stony Step and the Airy Step could also have Racial Heritage. You can't pick an outsider as an option for Racial Heritage but there are now 7 outsiders that can now pick Racial Heritage since they can count as humans. This opens up some usually unobtainable feats by taking the outsider as your main race instead of human, 1/2 elf or 1/2 orc.
So a person could count as a human, tiefling and say catfolk. Now you can pretend to be part hellcat. I don't see anything wrong with that.
LazarX |
LazarX wrote:The point is the name of the feat is Racial Heritage:Race Not Racial Heritage:Customised Race Character.Sorry, I don't understand your point. You seem to have a visceral dislike of the feat for some reason.
My point is that a character with Stony Step and the Airy Step could also have Racial Heritage. You can't pick an outsider as an option for Racial Heritage but there are now 7 outsiders that can now pick Racial Heritage since they can count as humans. This opens up some usually unobtainable feats by taking the outsider as your main race instead of human, 1/2 elf or 1/2 orc.
So a person could count as a human, tiefling and say catfolk. Now you can pretend to be part hellcat. I don't see anything wrong with that.
What I don't understand is the logic that because an outsider can take a certain feat should change their blanket ineligibility to be covered by Racial Heritage. The feat clearly says that you are restricted to humanoid creatures. An outsider is still not humanoid no matter what feats it takes. The test for racial heritage is the species itself, not individual creatures with individual feats.
Cuuniyevo |
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I think I see where the confusion was, graystone. I don't want to put words in LazarX's mouth but from my first reading of your earlier post I thought you were talking about allowing a human with Racial Heritage to use it to get the native outsiders' feats, which wouldn't be technically allowed (though I would personally allow it if the character in question were the "human" descendant of such an outsider from a previous campaign). It's now a bit clearer that you were talking about a native outsider character qualifying for Racial Heritage to take something like, say, an elven feat. I haven't bought Inner Sea Races yet so I'll take your word on the trait's wording. That does open up some interesting possibilities, especially if you threw in a sorcerer bloodline or two. With many of these features, there is the implication that the mixing of bloodlines happened many generations ago and are just rearing their head now, so it could certainly work.
As an aside, my family tree has something like 20 different countries represented on it (just for ancestors alone, not counting cousins), so I've come to embrace the idea of being a mutt. :P
The idea of a human with half-elven blood was one that especially popped out at me while compiling the list. Here could be someone who felt attached to their family origins but wouldn't be seen as "part of the club" anywhere they went. They certainly wouldn't be accepted as being elven and they wouldn't be seen as half-elven, but neither would they feel human. Hmmmm… I may need to introduce them as an NPC.
graystone |
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LazarX: The test to TAKE racial heritage is Human. 7 outsider races can qualify for that prerequisite without ANY feats. I repeat. NO feats required.
As to the ability to take one of those 7 outsider races as your option for the feat, that's a different issue. The traits in question state "count as humanoid (human) as well as outsider (native) for all purposes". Take from that what you will. Do you count "for all purposes" to not include feats?
Or another question: would you allow someone to take the form of an outsider that has Mostly Human with an alter self spell? If not, what prerequisite did they fail to meet? Are they not the " humanoid type"?
Cuuniyevo: You pretty much nailed it. I didn't set out to prove that you could take racial heritage and apply it to those 7 outsider races. That said, a case can be made that it could work. That'd be best saved for another thread though. The new traits wording of "for all purposes" is a bit stronger than the "any effect related to race" of the original aasimars' Scion of Humanity.
I'll say the same thing I did above about "permanent" vs "reliable means". "So for things like this debate, I err on the more conservative side even though I'm more on the [other] side."
Thaine |
It seems to me that the opinion here is that the racial heritage feat should read something like this:
Racial Heritage (Human)
The blood of a non-human ancestor flows in your veins.
Prerequisite: Human.
Benefit: Choose another humanoid race. You may ask your DM whether or not you count as a member of that race for the purpose of taking traits, feats, how spells and magic items affect you, and so on.
To me, above all else, rules must be consistent and reliable. If flavor text (that is not written to same rules rigor as the rest of feat descriptions) is allowed to influence prerequisites, then nobody can know what Racial Heritage actually does when you take it. Its effects will be entirely subjective and change drastically on a table by table basis.
In my opinion, this is the opposite of a good official rule. A player should not take a feat and then have to ask the DM what it actually does. A player should take a feat and know exactly what it does and how it interacts with things and if there are any interactions that the DM is not okay with then they have all the power as the DM to house rule it.
And this is before we get in to the repercussions of this when applied to other feats. For example:
Artful Dodge (Combat)
You are practiced at avoiding attacks when outnumbered.
Prerequisite(s): Int 13.
Benefit: If you are the only character threatening an opponent, you gain a +1 dodge bonus to AC against that opponent.
Special: The Artful Dodge feat acts as the Dodge feat for the purpose of satisfying prerequisites that require Dodge. You can use Intelligence, rather than Dexterity, for feats with a minimum Dexterity prerequisite.
According to the flavor text of Artful Dodge, this feat can only be used when outnumbered. Would people rule that Artful Dodge would not work when threatened by only one enemy? That seems against the intent of the feat to me.
And then we have to get in to the flavor text of spells, class abilities, items, etc...