[PFS|RP|Thought Experiment] Advice on leveling?


Advice

Liberty's Edge

The following is a request from my bard, seeking advice on how to support more... Wei Ji the Learner...

"Greetings!

I've been doing some tasks for the Society, and I've delved quite well into the social spectrum as well as keeping my education up decently, but lately I've felt a little bit lacking in the combat arenas despite building a 'utility bag' and having capabilities to inspire my fellow expedition members while on missions for the Society.

What might folks suggest as options. Clanking armor is right out, and while I'm not stupid, I'm not a savant like some wizards are?

I've even picked up some additional training from the Mendevian Crusades on how to use a glaive, so I don't need to delve into a truly martial class for a reach weapon.

Thank you very much for your time in advance!"

This is a Bard 5, I'm looking for classes, ideas, and thoughts for things that don't break away from his development in the support roles but to increase effectiveness as he levels. Dives into classes not really supported by stats would probably not work that well. Looking for synergy, here. Again, Thank you for your time!

Grand Lodge

I am assuming Standard, not Core, since there are major differences in what can be done..

Flag Bearer feat, and one of the magical Banners, eventually.

Spells that end a performance, but give a reroll or bonus to a failed roll for your teammates.

Spells that can neutralize or minimize an enemy's advantage, like Ghostbane Dirge.

Equipment that can assist your abilities, whether it is a Headband of Charisma, or a Circlet of Persuasion.

Liberty's Edge

Apologies for not specifying, yes, Standard campaign.

Flag Bearer gives a morale bonus, right? Does that stack with Inspire Courage?

I'd have to look for those end/reroll/bonus spells (that's a new one to me, I thought Skalds had that?)

Headband of Charisma is on the list of things to acquire, thanks for the confirmation on that!

Thank you for the feedback and response in a timely fashion! :)

Silver Crusade

Check out the bard spells in Advanced Players Guide. Lots of good immediate action spells to boost your allies' rolls, including the reroll stuff like kinevon mentioned. I actually have an archery focused bard who has almost all immediate action spells at low levels, since he's too busy shooting arrows in combat to bother casting with his standard actions.

Since you're focusing on support, maybe consider boosting your Use Magic Device through the roof and picking up wands or scrolls of various buff spells from other classes.

Or maybe a one level dip into oracle, since it would work well with your high charisma, and give some neat abilities right from level 1, along with opening up the whole cleric spell list for wands and scrolls.

Liberty's Edge

Fromper wrote:


Since you're focusing on support, maybe consider boosting your Use Magic Device through the roof and picking up wands or scrolls of various buff spells from other classes.

Or maybe a one level dip into oracle, since it would work well with your high charisma, and give some neat abilities right from level 1, along with opening up the whole cleric spell list for wands and scrolls.

Boosting UMD through Roof: In progress.

Was actually considering Oracle (there's even a feat that allows additional rounds of Bardic performance from Inner Sea Gods), but wasn't so sure about how the curses would work?

Grand Lodge

I am not sure I would bother with extra rounds of bardic performance unless you are investing in something that lets you burn a lot of rounds per round. If you have a decent charisma, you are going to have a hard time using all your rounds in a 4 hour scenario. (Might be more useful in a module.)

The nice thing about the curses is that every two levels of another class counts as a level of oracle for advancing the curse. So if you take a single level of oracle at level 9 (for example) you start with the curse at level 5, and get the first benefit.

Liberty's Edge

FLite wrote:


The nice thing about the curses is that every two levels of another class counts as a level of oracle for advancing the curse. So if you take a single level of oracle at level 9 (for example) you start with the curse at level 5, and get the first benefit.

I... didn't know that. That's very helpful, thank you. Reading IS fundamental. Eesh.

There's Clouded Vision, Deaf, Haunted, Lame, Tongues, Wasting as far as curses... are there any others?

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Rae Alain Paight wrote:


Apologies for not specifying, yes, Standard campaign.

Flag Bearer gives a morale bonus, right? Does that stack with Inspire Courage?

Inspire Courage is actually a competence bonus for the attack and damage rolls. It's morale for the saves vs. fear part.


Rae Alain Paight wrote:
FLite wrote:


The nice thing about the curses is that every two levels of another class counts as a level of oracle for advancing the curse. So if you take a single level of oracle at level 9 (for example) you start with the curse at level 5, and get the first benefit.

I... didn't know that. That's very helpful, thank you. Reading IS fundamental. Eesh.

There's Clouded Vision, Deaf, Haunted, Lame, Tongues, Wasting as far as curses... are there any others?

There are a number of other curses in various splat books, but that's kind of a hard sell - one of them adds fire spells to your oracle auto-knowns, but gives you -4 on all attack rolls. Another gives you a bite, but also spell failure on verbals. The absolute best curse is Legalistic (Blood of Fiends, I think?), but it likely doesn't fit your character.

I'd stay with bard and start focusing more on spells. Start utilizing the human FCB for additional spells known. It surprised me to not see Heroism and Ear-Piercing Scream, for example, but the bard list is really, really good overall.

Also, congrats on living up to your forum name. You learned something today!

Shadow Lodge

Rae Alain Paight wrote:


There's Clouded Vision, Deaf, Haunted, Lame, Tongues, Wasting as far as curses... are there any others?

I've always liked Legalistic, from Blood of Fiends. No real benefits or drawbacks, just that you can't break your word without getting sick. With some careful choices of phrasing, you may never notice the curse.

Liberty's Edge

"After seeing how insanely effective multiple images and the power of Suggestion have been in keeping opponents alive, I picked those up. As soon as more options become available there, I'm definitely going for Heroism -- not so sure about screaming yet, it's not my style. Definitely investing in the short-term of a flag, though. It's flashy, it's bold, and it stirs the blood, just like a triple-time beat."

Thank you very much for the suggestions so far,look forward to hearing any other ideas! And yes, the concern about performance was actually brought up in a module over the weekend, I almost ran out even with Lingering Performance...

Grand Lodge

Asteriski wrote:
Rae Alain Paight wrote:


There's Clouded Vision, Deaf, Haunted, Lame, Tongues, Wasting as far as curses... are there any others?
I've always liked Legalistic, from Blood of Fiends. No real benefits or drawbacks, just that you can't break your word without getting sick. With some careful choices of phrasing, you may never notice the curse.

No real benefit? Just swear to carry out the mission. You now have a floating +4 you can use once for any roll. And if you fail, you are sickened for one day, after the game ends...

And at level 5, you get +3 to a bunch of social skills if the rest of the party doesn't aid you. Useful when you get stuck with a low social table.

Okay, it is pretty cheasy, but it works.

But it could be a tough sell for a chaotic bard. (Although it could be a case of "he pissed off some deity while at the same time doing them a favor, so they gave him a gift with a cruel price.")

Grand Lodge

Also, Archive of Nethys has a fairly complete list of curses, complete with what source they come from. The ones with the little white open road logo are PFS legal.

Liberty's Edge

Psst! Rae is Neutral Good. Not everyone in LE is CG =P

Grand Lodge

Then legalistic would work just fine.

For dipping a single level, dual cursed is always tempting. You get access to misfortune, which is really stupidly powerful (Free reroll once per day per party member and can make badguys reroll crits, once per enemy.) and doesn't need more levels to make it work.

But then it is going to be pretty hard to come up with a second curse for a bard that you really want... (Remember that the second curse never advances at all.)

The Exchange

It would take re-training... but you might look at the Flame Dancer Archtype...

That's the way I have gone...

Hand another caster in the party a Wand of [/]Obscuring Mist[/I] and sing "I can see clearly now..."

You would have to retrain Countersong and Inspire Competence... but

Song of Fiery Gaze:
(Su): At 3rd level, a fire dancer can allow allies to see through flames without any distortion. Any ally within 30 feet of the bard who can hear the performance can see through fire, fog, and smoke without penalty as long as the light is sufficient to allow him to see normally, as with the base effect of the gaze of flames oracle revelation. Song of the fiery gaze relies on audible components. This ability replaces inspire competence.
is so worth it!

Scarab Sages

OH! and I wouldn't dip another class... not worth it.

Delays your Bard abilities to much...

edit: and I really have to ask. What's the training harness in your equipment for? I know what I use mine for - but that's my Day Job!

Liberty's Edge

Katisha wrote:


edit: and I really have to ask. What's the training harness in your equipment for? I know what I use mine for - but that's my Day Job!

"Well, there was this one mission that Sheila Heidmarch asked me to go on up Varisia-way, not sure if it'd be proper to talk about it in detail, but it involved having to keep up with someone who wasn't quite in control of their actions. Figured it'd be the best way t' do it, that and a nice length of silk rope? Any rate, so I've been kind of keeping it as a momento and as a conversation starter. Why do you ask, miss?" Rae offers a bit of a roguish grin.

Honestly, I keep trying to sell that thing and the character goes 'Oh, no, I may NEED that someday. Don't you dare!'

Silver Crusade

Katisha wrote:
edit: and I really have to ask. What's the training harness in your equipment for? I know what I use mine for - but that's my Day Job!

Does Handle Animal work on humanoids? :P

Liberty's Edge

It'd probably be Intimidate? Or a Profession skill/Dayjob?

Scarab Sages

Fromper wrote:
Katisha wrote:
edit: and I really have to ask. What's the training harness in your equipment for? I know what I use mine for - but that's my Day Job!
Does Handle Animal work on humanoids? :P

I can recall one mission where I was trying to get a crowd of people (humans mostly) to do something (flee when released from a pen) - when I asked if I could take 10 on a Diplomacy check I was told it was going to be a Handle Animal. (in this area the humans were considered "livestock"). Much to everyone at the tables surprise (me more than anyone!), I had a very high Handle Animal (Versatile Performance for Percussion)! It was the first time I had ever used that skill!

The reason I was asking about the training harness was because of my skill "Craft: Courtesan"... I've picked up Masterwork Tools for "Profession: Courtesan", and was wondering if I might want to pick up one for the "Craft" (i.e. Training Courtesans)... And was thinking that the "training harness" needed to be unique for each "animal" it was used with...

Scarab Sages

Rae Alain Paight wrote:


It'd probably be Intimidate? Or a Profession skill/Dayjob?

Depends...

But, "usually that costs extra"...

Liberty's Edge

"Fees negotiable, then, you say?"

*smirks* "I can think of a few choice individuals who could use some... education on... proper etiquette?"

We may want to take this conversation elsewhere, it's a bit distracting from the thread and the heavily-innuendo'd conversation might be too heavy for some..

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