CigarPete |
3 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Came up at my PFS table yesterday and I want to check on my ruling at the table. Character in question was a 5th level Paladin with a mount.
Paladin entry in CRB says to treat the mount as an animal companion, using the druid entry, which has a bite as primary and two hooves as secondary. He was treating the hoof attacks as primary based on the bestiary entry for horse which says when they are combat trained, the hoof attacks are upgraded to primary. His reading on this was that the horse then got a bite and two hooves, all as primary.
I ruled that as the horse was an animal companion, it would use the animal companion natural weapon entries and the hooves could not be upgrade to primary.
I searched and while there are several threads, I found no FAQ and no response from campaign leadership. My search-fu may be weak, so want to make sure I am not missing anything.
Kalindlara Contributor |
Nefreet |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
There is a discrepancy, and it comes up often. Technically, you go by the Animal Companion details, which means that the hooves are always secondary. The argument for this is that the Bestiary is referring to non-Companion Horses, such as what you'd purchase.
I think it's rather silly reasoning, and it's understandably confusing (especially to newer players).
I would rule however you'd feel comfortable ruling, with the caveat that you inform the player of the possible table variation they'll encounter, and not to expect your ruling to persist at every table going forward.
(also, flagged for the Rules Forum. I'd prefer this gets the attention it deserves, so that it can be FAQ'd or errata'd, and the Rules Forum is the place for that)
x x 342 |
I am the player in question. I hadn't checked the Rules forum before the session CigarPete describes but having done so I see this question has come up before and apparently not been "officially" resolved. I have played the horse before with other GMs and can paraphrase the "it's okay" camp for the sake of including it in this discussion(with no intent to coopt an official FAQ which I assume we'd all want to see): A paladin's Bonded Mount has several different rules that apply. In the context of the Bonded Mount as an Animal Companion, it's hooves would be secondary if it were ever played as a 1st-3rd level Animal Companion, which it can't because the Bonded Mount starts as a 5th level Animal Companion. GMs who treat the hooves as primary note that the 4th-Level Advancement for the horse Animal Companion includes combat training and apply the horse Bestiary implication that the horse is no longer Docile and the hooves are thus primary weapons.
Nefreet |
On many levels, however, the Bestiary entries are different from the CRB entries. Tiger and Dinosaur Companions, for example, do not get bonuses to Stealth. Tyrannosaur Companions don't get Swallow Whole. So there is a basis for GMs not allowing your Horse's hooves to be primary.
Until it gets resolved, here is some useful advice from one of the people currently in charge.
Chaine "The Butcher" Alazario |
Thread necro: apparently the mess is because CRB was written before bestiary.
Combat Trained 4th level advancement was always meant to mean: hooves are primary.