7-06: To Judge a Soul Part 1: The Lost Legacy GM Discussion


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Silver Crusade 4/5 Venture-Captain, Pennsylvania—Pittsburgh

Normally I just get to read what everyone else has written, but I had some questions about this one and thought I'd start the thread. This looks like a fun one to run. I'm looking forward to it.

About that timeline handout...:
Does anyone happen to have the correct ages handy? Malikeen of Wanshou, Savior of Dallo seems to have lived for -2 years. It sounds like she was intended to die in her infancy, as a toddler of the ripe old age of 2 perhaps? Both dates are repeated above and below, so there's no obviously accurate fix. It's easy to swap the two dates, but if Scott or a Paizo-ite can tell us the "real" dates I don't want to contradict something in the concluding scenario. :)

A map question:
There's an alarm in the Haraka Shrine/Crypt, but it's not right in front of the entrance. Is that a mistake? I think it should be one square lower, to the south, in front of the entrance. Or is that mucking with the scenario too much?

An observation?:
Don't forget the status effect on that candle, the PCs should all know what's going on with their comrades for the duration of the scenario, and they should know not just that something has happened after they see the visions in the candle, but that Bakten is dead or dying. Not to mention that the candle's link should end as soon as Bakten dies. I think this partially contradicts some of the non-box text that says "The PCs have no way of learning this information in this scenario."

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Anyone else have trouble with the 'talons of envy' fight being especially brutal? My party set themselves up a little poorly, on the northern end of the dam, and didn't have an answer for the flying opponents. Thankfully, the cavaliers had lances to exchange reach melee attacks, but the cleric was working overtime to keep the party in the fight. The hallow aura also removed one target for the full duration, which helped a lot.

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Assistant Developer

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timeline handout:
References to 6963 IC should instead be to 6938 IC.

map question:
The alarm trap should have been one square to the south. You can move it.

observation:
The sentence "The PCs have no way of learning this information in this scenario" refers to how Bakten died, rather than the fact that he died.

5/5 ** RPG Superstar 2008 Top 16

In some ways, the scenario sets up the PCs to fail in that fight.

Spoiler:
The villagers provide little or no useful information about the daemons attacking them. Without information about the foes they face, a party hoping to stop foes on the dam may find itself grouped up in a formation well suited for the daemons to blast them. 18 dice of breath weapon is difficult for 6th and 7th level characters to shrug off. (The average breath weapon damage to a character with a +5 Reflex save = 52 points. The average hit points of a 7th level cleric with 12 Con = 52 hp. See the problem?)

When I played, our party suffered four fatalities. The remaining two characters were barely able to flee.

4/5

Hmm, that situation seems a fair amount off-tactics. Lemme post up the tactics block in a spoiler.

Tactics:
Tactics wrote:
The ceustodaemons cast slow, then hold monster, as they hope that they can harvest flesh without resistance from their victims. Afterward, they alternate between using their breath weapons and their melee attacks. They focus their melee attacks on the most dangerous PCs, and aim their breath weapons to hit as many PCs as possible.

and

Tactics wrote:


The ceustodaemons cast slow, then hold monster, hoping they can harvest flesh without resistance. They focus their melee attacks on the most dangerous PCs, and aim their breath weapons to hit as many PCs as possible.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 Venture-Captain, Massachusetts—North Shore

Yea there is no way you should start that combat with both demons using their breath weapons. First demon casts slow second demon casts hold monster on any PC that passes the save. You probably shouldn't be using the breath weapon till the third round of combat.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I'm not sure what went different at Jim's table, but I had similar problems on the table that was run concurrently to his. I do understand that their cleric was put out early, and likely caused a downward spiral. GMs should have the NPCs stress the holy aura of the shrine a bit more to encourage parties to use it.

I disagree about the breath weapons not coming out until the third round. The first round for my crew was moving in and alternating slow and hold monster between the three of them. When the party saved for the most part, the breath weapons slammed the cavaliers and their mounts in the second round. Although I believe the one had double moved to the back of the party and hit a slow in the second round before breathing on the third. Hold Monster being single target makes it a pretty sub-optimal use of a turn when the enemy is making the saves against slow.

5/5 ** RPG Superstar 2008 Top 16

The daemons did open the combat with slow and hold. We all saved. None of us knew what they were or what they did (and we boofed our knowledge checks), so all we got was their DR. Since we didn't expect a breath weapon and scattering would leave us vulnerable to demons ganging up on us individually, we remained bunched up. The second round, the three demons descended to blast us.

4/5

My party didn't get to use the holy aura of the shrine, as we recovered the cradle before the fight causing

disastrous results:
the flood sequence to happen before the daemon fight.
The presence of a gunslinger with silver bullets and a warpiest archer using blessing of good were all that saved the day after three party members went down to breath weapons.

Grand Lodge 5/5

I ran low-tier today and thought the final fight was brutal. Between the 2 slows 3 players had failed. Another player failed the hold monster. I didn't bother with the second hold monster cause I wanted the players to have a chance of actually suceeding. 6d6 breath weapons against 3's and 4's are utterly brutal. It reminded me of low tier Kortos envoy which was also brutal, and that's with 7d6 breath weapons against level 7s and 8s. I should have and could have TPKed the party, during this fight and they actually tactically made a number of good decisions (I didn't becuase there were a number of new players at the table)

Dark Archive

Yeah, just played this in high tier with 4 player adjustment (average 5.4ish), and that last fight was insane. 2 players down and most of the rest of the party down to under 50% HP before more than one player gets to act. We were bunched up inside the holy aura, so we were sitting ducks to the AOEs, and our knowledge people had been rolling 3s and 4s all night, so we didn't know what we were facing for setting up specific defenses. It was being merciful when the GM permitted to flee with only one permadeath.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/55/5 **

Pathfinder Maps, Rulebook, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Ran it twice and played it once this last weekend.

While all three fights were difficult, they are meant to be. But in all three the players still won.

The interesting thing that happened (twice) was that the players thought to use a small earth elemental to earth glide behind the tomb and push the skull back in place so they never had to ask to remove the screen.

Grand Lodge 5/5

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I like challenging scenarios and fights - so I'm not actually saying any of this as a complaint. This is pure observation to potentially help people going forward.

I honestly think the high tier is somewhat more manageable but breath weapons not scaling damage between tiers (only DC) is something I personally find to be problematic. If the damage is right in the high tier the damage is high (to very high) in the low tier, and conversely if it's on par in the low tier it's low to pitiful in the high tier. A 6d6 weapon does 21 average damage (save for half). A lot of level 3 characters are in the low to mid 20s for HP. Above average rolls on the breath weapons means putting characters down even with made saves (assuming no evasion). Plus, flight, slow, hold monster, and rolling short recharges - it can snowball pretty easily to a very bad time for the PCs.

The dam fight provides nice ways of handling the monsters, but also sets the monsters up to have success with their AoE effects (namely slow and the breath weapons). So far I've seen 2 groups play 1 was a TPK and the other had 1 dead player, 1 down player, and everyone else fled.

Of note, and something I only learned when discussing the monster with someone who has run Fane of Fangs. Those Ceustodaemons are actually really bad fliers - they have something like a +5 to fly in the low tier and a +4 in the high tier - so grounding them actually shouldn't be difficult for a lot of parties (or honestly they'll probably do it to themselves).

Grand Lodge 5/5

Joe Ducey wrote:

I like challenging scenarios and fights - so I'm not actually saying any of this as a complaint. This is pure observation to potentially help people going forward.

I honestly think the high tier is somewhat more manageable but breath weapons not scaling damage between tiers (only DC) is something I personally find to be problematic. If the damage is right in the high tier the damage is high (to very high) in the low tier, and conversely if it's on par in the low tier it's low to pitiful in the high tier. A 6d6 weapon does 21 average damage (save for half). A lot of level 3 characters are in the low to mid 20s for HP. Above average rolls on the breath weapons means putting characters down even with made saves (assuming no evasion). Plus, flight, slow, hold monster, and rolling short recharges - it can snowball pretty easily to a very bad time for the PCs.

The dam fight provides nice ways of handling the monsters, but also sets the monsters up to have success with their AoE effects (namely slow and the breath weapons). So far I've seen 2 groups play 1 was a TPK and the other had 1 dead player, 1 down player, and everyone else fled.

Of note, and something I only learned when discussing the monster with someone who has run Fane of Fangs. Those Ceustodaemons are actually really bad fliers - they have something like a +5 to fly in the low tier and a +4 in the high tier - so grounding them actually shouldn't be difficult for a lot of parties (or honestly they'll probably do it to themselves).

Also, there are obviously a couple of spells that can make this fight much easier (if 1. players have them and 2. they make the knowledge check). Both haste (since it dispels slow) and either resist energy cold or protection from energy cold are hugely helpful.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Joe Ducey wrote:
Of note, and something I only learned when discussing the monster with someone who has run Fane of Fangs. Those Ceustodaemons are actually really bad fliers - they have something like a +5 to fly in the low tier and a +4 in the high tier - so grounding them actually shouldn't be difficult for a lot of parties (or honestly they'll probably do it to themselves).

I tend to completely forget about that. Thanks for the reminder.

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Assistant Developer

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John and I are reading and considering all of your feedback.

For now, I have a few suggestions for GMs to manage the difficulty of the final encounter.

1) Rather than having the ceustodaemons all use their breath weapons on the same round after they finish their slow/hold monster spells, have one use its breath weapon first, and the other(s) go into melee first before using the breath weapon.
2) ceustodaemons are not immune to their own breath weapons. If it would help the PCs, you can have the ceustodaemons aim their weapons to avoid each other.
3) If you typically combine enemies with the same stats onto the same initiative count, I strongly suggest not doing so with the ceustodaemons. Creatures with AOE effects gain a particular advantage from being grouped together.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 ****

Steven Schopmeyer wrote:
Joe Ducey wrote:
Of note, and something I only learned when discussing the monster with someone who has run Fane of Fangs. Those Ceustodaemons are actually really bad fliers - they have something like a +5 to fly in the low tier and a +4 in the high tier - so grounding them actually shouldn't be difficult for a lot of parties (or honestly they'll probably do it to themselves).
I tend to completely forget about that. Thanks for the reminder.

We actually have Fane of Fangs to thank for that info - after the two tables Joe referenced, a bunch of players and GMs came to me for my thoughts (I haven't read the scenario since I'm hoping to play it before I run it, so all I know is that there are multiple Ceustodaemons involved). Since I ran Fane of Fangs last week, and it was included in the knowledge check sidebar...

Edit: Or I could be a dummy and not notice that Joe already referenced Fane of Fangs. Ah well!

Sovereign Court 4/5

I ran this yesterday and woah boy, what a fight. We were three HP from a TPK, it was that tough.

On the first round, PCs act first and haste themselves after successfully identifying Daemons. Slow, cast from the first, fails to affect anybody. The second, it un-Hastes two PCs.

Second round, the PCs are starting to lay the beat down on one of the Daemons, focusing fire. Alchemist is a fire bomber, so not as effective as planned, but still hurting. Nobody gets held, Daemons approach into the circle. Beat down on the one continues, though he's still up and standing for round three and both get their breath weapons off, catching 4/4 and 3/4.

Daemons surround and begin attacking, killing the sorcerer (who buffed and stepped up to help) in one bite, dropping the other front-line melee and proeeding onto the Alchemist and Bard.

One Daemon drops and PCs left full bore on the last. Bard dies and Alchemist survives with 3HP, two dead and one downed member.

Aside from the incredibly difficult fight, in which I see many a death occurring, the scenario, though good, seems to lack some basic info. My PCs, upon getting to town, were very charming and diplomatic. They asked to be shown to the cradle. They immediately find out that the cradle is a fake and begin interrogating the natives. An entire section Ad Hoc, since they're easily able to see through the deception. Regardless of if the NPCs are there or not, the PCs are bound to immediately know that it's a fake, as the candle does not turn blue. The Appraise check is irrelevant. There is no reason for them to not begin interrogating the townsfolk, or if not the town , then the two main NPCs as to the fakeness of the cradle.

Anyone else encounter this particular difficulty?

Silver Crusade 4/5 Venture-Captain, Pennsylvania—Pittsburgh

Linda Zayas-Palmer wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **

Thanks!

(That must be in the running for one of the most descriptive quotes ever.)

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

I just ran this for a group of 4 players APL 6,25 and the last fight was pretty brutal.
The party had a number of bad rolls (the gunslinger had two misfires), the treesinger druid and his tree companion were hit pretty hard by a slow (even though a hold monster was wasted on the tree companion).
The high AC combined with DR/good or silver, makes this fight pretty hard for classes who depend on their animal companions, or those who have trouble dealing with DR (our Gunslinger was well prepared, unfortunately the oil of bless weapon was only useful for a melee backup weapon, and silver bullets aren't alchemical cartridges).
The zen archer and ninja fared a little better, AC 24 proved to be a real obstacle.
And frankly I didn't even attempt to have the daemons fight from the air.
I killed a poor defenseless tree companion, and things could have ended even worse, fortunately the of demon had included the other in his 30 damage breath weapon, that damage finally allowed the group to take him down.
The other daemon died several rounds later after after he dimension doored behind the gunslinger(on his second attempt, since he failed the first concentration check).
Fortunately he teleported into the hallowed area, got hit by an attack, and teleported away the next turn. He died shortly after, but that hallowed area can be quite critical for this encounter.
---
I really worry for the low tier tables, even with the tactics suggested above, one lucky 30 damage breath weapon, could be enough to start a downwards spiral.
---
And, while this is a bit unconnected, I am looking forward to part 2.
After part 1 players might rightfully feel cheated, after their venture captain send them knowingly into situations that resulted in disasters, the players were powerless to stop (and it might feel like it was their fault).
Of course that particular group of player characters already loathed Bakten, the new incarnation might have to apologize a fair bit.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

What does the hallow effect do? When we played it I didn't notice anything; then again we mostly fought at the edge of it, keeping the daemons out. Are you supposed to draw them in?

Dark Archive

IIRC it negates their DR if they get inside the aura.

Silver Crusade 4/5 5/55/55/5 RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8

Dave Baker wrote:
On the first round, PCs act first and haste themselves after successfully identifying Daemons. Slow, cast from the first, fails to affect anybody. The second, it un-Hastes two PCs.

Slow counters and dispels haste, so when the first slow spell was cast it should have automatically dispelled the haste on all targeted creatures.

I could very easily be missing something though.

Sovereign Court 4/5

Michael Eshleman wrote:
Dave Baker wrote:
On the first round, PCs act first and haste themselves after successfully identifying Daemons. Slow, cast from the first, fails to affect anybody. The second, it un-Hastes two PCs.

Slow counters and dispels haste, so when the first slow spell was cast it should have automatically dispelled the haste on all targeted creatures.

I could very easily be missing something though.

Recall that there is a Will save vs Slow.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

You don't get a save against dispel magic however. It's unclear if the dispel clause against slow/haste allows a save.

4/5 ****

I don't believe you get a save to avoid having your haste dispelled if you are targeted by slow.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Honestly, there is little to no explanation of how that clause of the spell is supposed to work, as the Magic section of the CRB failed to address it.


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Hi, author here. Thanks for everyone's contributions to this thread. Every bit of feedback helps me to improve my work. Your parties' deaths shall not be in vain! :)

Regarding the daemon fight, I second everything Linda writes above. Here are some other points for GMs to bear in mind:

1) The daemons are not expecting a fight, so they do not have to act with coordination or strategy.
2) Entering the hallowed area disturbs and enrages them, which will throw them even further off their game.
3) If you see the PCs are really suffering, have one or more of the daemons focus on the NPC who runs into the midst of the fight. Her death would prohibit one of the secondary success conditions, but that's preferable to a TPK.

Regarding Dave's cradle question:

Dave Baker wrote:
Regardless of if the NPCs are there or not, the PCs are bound to immediately know that it's a fake, as the candle does not turn blue. The Appraise check is irrelevant. There is no reason for them to not begin interrogating the townsfolk, or if not the town , then the two main NPCs as to the fakeness of the cradle.

This is true. However, the NPC who hid the true cradle has no reason to reveal its whereabouts yet. He may even present that as an ultimatum to the PCs -- help my village, or prove that you're divine, and I'll give back the relic.

If the PCs use something like <i>zone of truth</i>, or just search every inch of the dam until they find the cradle, fine. They can still inspect the true cradle without triggering the dam breach. Hopefully they will still feel morally obliged to save the villagers from the daemons.

If the dam bursts prior to the daemon fight, have the villagers relocate all the relics in the stupa to someplace in the village. Assume they still radiate the hallowed effect, despite having been moved. Then the PCs can still benefit from the hallowed effect during the combat.

The dam breach was conceived as a cinematic climax to the fight, but I'm well aware it won't play out that way at every table. Simply surviving the battle might be plenty cinematic for most groups of players.

Thanks for playing! I hope you'll check out Larry's sequel when it comes out at the end of this month.

5/5 *****

Robert Hetherington wrote:
I don't believe you get a save to avoid having your haste dispelled if you are targeted by slow.

I see it as having two options:

1. It's Slow, you get a save, if you fail the save your Haste goes
2. It's a Dispel, you dont get a save but the Slow caster needs to make a caster level check to remove the Haste against a DC of 11+caster level

Personally I think it works like the latter but that is largely guesswork as it isn't explicitly addressed anywhere that I am aware of.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I think I've always had them make the save and then used the opposite effects clause of the Magic rules if they fail.

4/5 ****

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There's an FAQ that answers this btw.

and it's auto dispel, no roll or save etc.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

Robert Hetherington wrote:

There's an FAQ that answers this btw.

and it's auto dispel, no roll or save etc.

I missed that one. Interesting.

5/5 *****

Robert Hetherington wrote:

There's an FAQ that answers this btw.

and it's auto dispel, no roll or save etc.

Thanks, that's a really helpful find.

Shadow Lodge *

Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

Ran this yesterday at low tier.

The party completely destroyed the daemons. Two charging cavaliers (well, one cavalier and one samurai), one with a silver weapon knocked them down pretty hard.

But the killer was 5 celestial eagles smiting (and so bypassing DR) and full attacking -- on top of the charge that took the daemons out in one round. They never even got to use their breath weapons.

They *loved* the section in Jinin.

BTW, this may be the first ever scenario where Hayato was a good choice of iconic -- he got to use mounted combat, the fact that he spoke Tien was very helpful, and all of his skills were extremely useful (even Perform: Strings).

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ***

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
pH unbalanced wrote:
But the killer was 5 celestial eagles smiting (and so bypassing DR) and full attacking -- on top of the charge that took the daemons out in one round. They never even got to use their breath weapons.

Celestial smite != Paladin smite. The smite from the celestial template only gives you what is listed, aka the bonus to hit and damage. It doesn't add to AC, double vs. an evil outsider/dragon/undead and it doesn't bypass DR.

(Unless of course, the daemons were in the hallowed area.)

Silver Crusade 4/5 5/55/55/5 RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8

pH unbalanced wrote:
BTW, this may be the first ever scenario where Hayato was a good choice of iconic -- he got to use mounted combat, the fact that he spoke Tien was very helpful, and all of his skills were extremely useful (even Perform: Strings).

Why would speaking Tien be helpful? The elves speak Common and Elven, and the villagers speak Minkaian, except for Yuzana and Arkar, who also speak a bit of Common.

Silver Crusade 1/5 Contributor

The smite thing was my bad - sorry! -_-

As for Hayato... really looking forward to having a character in tier.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ***

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Meh - it comes up a lot. Everyone screws it up once and then never again. It's a complicated game.

5/5 *****

I am running this at the weekend. One thing to note, there doesn't seem to be a way to remove the dam map without also bringing the concealed area with it. I have had to build cover over the area in roll20 which is always a bit clunky. This seems to be the case both with the map at the encounter part and at the end.

5/5 *****

Looking through the scenario to prepare I am not seeing any reason why the PC's would visit any shrine other than the one containing the skull. If they don't visit the others then they miss out on potential treasure as well as major clue leading to one element of the second prestige point.

I also note that some of the module treasure is inside the vault they need to access. Given the primary means of accessing these chambers is supposed to be diplomacy expecting the players to then loot the shrines seems very wrong.

Have I missed something or are the players actually supposed to literally grave rob people they are trying to work with in order to receive their full rewards?

5/5 *****

Mike Bramnik wrote:
Steven Schopmeyer wrote:
Joe Ducey wrote:
Of note, and something I only learned when discussing the monster with someone who has run Fane of Fangs. Those Ceustodaemons are actually really bad fliers - they have something like a +5 to fly in the low tier and a +4 in the high tier - so grounding them actually shouldn't be difficult for a lot of parties (or honestly they'll probably do it to themselves).
I tend to completely forget about that. Thanks for the reminder.

We actually have Fane of Fangs to thank for that info - after the two tables Joe referenced, a bunch of players and GMs came to me for my thoughts (I haven't read the scenario since I'm hoping to play it before I run it, so all I know is that there are multiple Ceustodaemons involved). Since I ran Fane of Fangs last week, and it was included in the knowledge check sidebar...

Edit: Or I could be a dummy and not notice that Joe already referenced Fane of Fangs. Ah well!

There is uncertainty over their fly skill modifiers as they don't have any ranks in the skill. Looking at it they have:

+3 dex (17), +4 (half caster level) and possibly +4 (good manouverability) depending on how you read the rules. The greater daemons get -2 for size.

That leaves them with either +11/9 or +7/5. Bear in mind that they are flying using a spell and therefore being hit while flying does nothing. As long as they aren't trying to hover, make sharp turns or move upwards at any great angle then you never need to make any sort of fly check. It also isn't at all clear what happens if you fail a fly check while flying using a spell.

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Assistant Developer

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andreww wrote:
Have I missed something or are the players actually supposed to literally grave rob people they are trying to work with in order to receive their full rewards?

The PCs don’t have to take the items to receive full rewards. It’s unclear to me if your question is about earning full gold, or about getting full Chronicle sheet access for items, so I’ll answer your question from both perspectives.

If you're talking about gold earned, the PCs don't have to take the items to receive full rewards. The rewards section of the encounter describes the circumstances under which the PCs should not receive full gold for area B.

Rewards section:
"If the PCs did not examine Sorin’s skull, or if they were arrested (see the Violence section of the Alternative Solutions sidebar on page 14), reduce each PC’s gold earned by the following amount."

If you're talking about whether the PCs lose Chronicle sheet access, keep in mind that per the section on filling out Chronicle sheets in the Pathfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Guide, the PCs only need to find an item to gain access to it.
Only under rare circumstances that are specified in the text of the scenario do the PCs actually need to take an item. To clarify, a few scenarios have something like “The PCs do not receive any money for the rubies in this chamber if they do not first pry them out of the wall,” and those are the only cases when actually taking the item instead of just finding it matters.

Pathfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Guide wrote:
Step 7: Cross out any treasure items the party didn’t find in the scenario and mark any special boons the players did or did not earn (U); additionally, if you’re running the lower subtier, always cross out all of the items listed for the higher subtier. Return the Chronicle sheet to the player.

Grand Lodge 5/5

andreww wrote:
Mike Bramnik wrote:
Steven Schopmeyer wrote:
Joe Ducey wrote:
Of note, and something I only learned when discussing the monster with someone who has run Fane of Fangs. Those Ceustodaemons are actually really bad fliers - they have something like a +5 to fly in the low tier and a +4 in the high tier - so grounding them actually shouldn't be difficult for a lot of parties (or honestly they'll probably do it to themselves).
I tend to completely forget about that. Thanks for the reminder.

We actually have Fane of Fangs to thank for that info - after the two tables Joe referenced, a bunch of players and GMs came to me for my thoughts (I haven't read the scenario since I'm hoping to play it before I run it, so all I know is that there are multiple Ceustodaemons involved). Since I ran Fane of Fangs last week, and it was included in the knowledge check sidebar...

Edit: Or I could be a dummy and not notice that Joe already referenced Fane of Fangs. Ah well!

There is uncertainty over their fly skill modifiers as they don't have any ranks in the skill. Looking at it they have:

+3 dex (17), +4 (half caster level) and possibly +4 (good manouverability) depending on how you read the rules. The greater daemons get -2 for size.

That leaves them with either +11/9 or +7/5. Bear in mind that they are flying using a spell and therefore being hit while flying does nothing. As long as they aren't trying to hover, make sharp turns or move upwards at any great angle then you never need to make any sort of fly check. It also isn't at all clear what happens if you fail a fly check while flying using a spell.

Yes, I forgot the caster level mod. I actually had them drop in melee not from being hit, but trying to hover to maintain high ground and failing, but it honestly didn't matter at that point the TPK was basically guaranteed at that point.

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

andreww wrote:
I am running this at the weekend. One thing to note, there doesn't seem to be a way to remove the dam map without also bringing the concealed area with it. I have had to build cover over the area in roll20 which is always a bit clunky. This seems to be the case both with the map at the encounter part and at the end.

I noticed that too and before I printed the map, I manipulated mine in Gimp and Inkscape to remove the concealed area. Its relatively easy to copy paste a section of the map over the convealed area. Then you just use a tool to "smudge" some of the corners.

5/5 *****

Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
I noticed that too and before I printed the map, I manipulated mine in Gimp and Inkscape to remove the concealed area. Its relatively easy to copy paste a section of the map over the convealed area. Then you just use a tool to "smudge" some of the corners.

I tend to cut out a square and drop multiples into my roll 20 map. By spreading them about it makes the slight variations less noticeable.

5/5 *****

Linda Zayas-Palmer wrote:
The PCs don’t have to take the items to receive full rewards. It’s unclear to me if your question is about earning full gold, or about getting full Chronicle sheet access for items, so I’ll answer your question from both perspectives.

Thanks for that Linda, I was talking about the wand(s) and scroll. It hadn't occurred to me that they only need to find things, not actually recover them.

5/5 *****

Can I just check if the lack of reporting conditions is intended.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 ****

For those who don't own Occult Adventures (since as of the time I'm posting it's not on the PRD yet), is there some place to see what the occult skill unlocks that the PCs get access to do?

Specifically: prognostication (pyromancy), psychometry, and read aura.

Thanks very much!

5/5 *****

I have read and reread the crypt section and one thing continues to bother me. The PC's need to locate the skull, the crypts are described as:

Spoiler:
The crypts are dug into the stone walls and covered with inset metal screens, allowing visitors to view the revered remains.

If the crypts are covered with metal screens how the hell does anyone see into them at any time?

As far as skill unlocks go, very briefly:

Psychometry (Appraise) - gain flash of insight regarding the objects nature and ownership. DC15, 1 piece of info +1/10 by which you beat the DC. If you fail by 5 or more get wildly wrong info.

Prgnostication (Sense Motive) - 1/day predict a creatures fortune. Takes 10 minutes. Secret check, DC based on HD. Alignment 15+HD, class 20+, level 25+, augury 25+ chance 60% +5/point beat DC by to a max of 90

Read Aura (Perception) - 1/day, 10 minutes to do, determine alignment, emotion, health or magic. DC15/20/15/20+HD or caster level. 30 range.

Dark Archive 4/5 ** Venture-Agent, Ireland–Drogheda

I ran this yesterday and my PCs loved it. It's such a cool story, and the NPCs make the role play memorable.

My players were especially excited to use the Candle of Conveyance to use the psychic skill unlocks. They used it to read each others's auras, and, more pertinent to the plot, to use psychometry on the braided hair that they recovered from the Pale Silence. I gave them their results in the form of cryptic visions: an elderly elven woman meditating, a distant landscape with celestial silver lions rampant above the horizon (I later wrote lions into the heraldry in the silver pagoda), and six children sitting at the foot of the elderly elf. She cut a lock of her knotted hair and handed it to one of the children, and the vision ended.

They had a lot of fun role playing with the NPCs at the festival. (They chose this location first because of its connection to Tiennese elves, and, presumably to the would-be assassins in the first part. I wouldn't be surprised if this is what most parties opt for.) There's a lot to work with here, and if you're running it, it will behoove you to spend some time thinking about what the NPCs' motivations are beyond clan rivalries--I didn't spend too much time on the politics because there's already a lot going on. One question that the scenario doesn't answer is whether the psychic influence affecting Mata Ryuu responds to detect magic, and if it does, what a spellcraft check would reveal. I imagine this might be answered in part two, but I haven't read it yet. To stay out of the weeds, I just told them there was no aura, but he was definitely behaving as though under a compulsion. They had enough social skills to ace this part, though they didn't press Ryuu on their suspicions after he came back from the crypts, so they won a 2-1 vote.

In Dallo, they met up with Yuzana and were eager to help fight the monsters. They detected the fraud at the stupa, but didn't investigate the dam sufficiently to find the cradle. They used the candle to investigate the forged cradle and saw an image of the cradle being placed in a dark space by a slovenly looking man, and the same man carving a copy of it. They described the man to Yuzana, and she led them to Arkar. They found him playing dice, and after being interrogated, admitted to the forgery. So, they found the true cradle and had the amulet for the daemon fight.

I can see how the fight could be very tough for a party of level 3 PCs, and tough for anyone if enough party members failed their saves in the daemons' opening salvos. But, my players had no trouble with it at the low tier. They had luck on their side: nobody failed a save against slow or hold monster, despite the fact that I targeted the melee guys with low Will for both hold monsters.

That said, I don't think this encounter is too difficult for the tier. The saves on the daemons' spells are makeable (15 and 17, respectively), so no more than half the party should be affected by them, and there are ways of getting around both effects. In addition to Linda's and Scott's suggestions, above, I would say that you can steer the PCs toward the true cradle, which will give them the amulet. If they can't make the knowledge religion check to ID the hallow effect, maybe Yuzana can suggest it as a good place for the ambush.

It sounds like the parties that wiped on this fight couldn't make any knowledge checks or pass their saves, and didn't come with silver weapons or a way to align them. That's a bummer when it happens, but it's not the scenario's fault. DR silver is not hard to get around, especially when the scenario gives you a mithral sword. (It might have been better if this sword appeared in Dallo--maybe even as an offering at the shrine. If PCs go to Dallo first, they won't have it when they need it.)

This is a challenging encounter for sure, but I don't think it's unfair. For a frame of reference, the party I ran for was composed of a halfling cavalier on a wolf, a halfling mounted fury barbarian on a wolf, a rogue/mesmerist, a pregen cleric, and a samsaran magus.

All in all, a great scenario! I can't wait to play/run the sequel.

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