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Aasimar from alternative race stock


Roleplaying Guild General Discussion

Lantern Lodge **

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber

Hi All,

I picked up an Aasimar boon at a recent convention and an thinking about what to use it for.

In Blood of Angels it tells you how to make an Aasimar from a non-human base race (you basically change nothing except for the size).

Additional resources doesn't say you can't do this, but neither does it say you can.

I'd really like to play a small Aasimar from Gnome heritage - would this be allowed in PFS?

Cheers

K

Dark Archive *****

no it is not allowed ... feel free to search forum and see the many times it has been discussed..

Grand Lodge ***

1 person marked this as a favorite.

FAQ

But note that the reply is specifically in this context: aasimar and tieflings are half-human as opposed to half-anything else. It does not mean PFS changed the Pathfinder RPG rules to make them partly human for the purpose of game effects that affect humans. This has also been discussed many times and at length.

Lantern Lodge **

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber

Shame :-( would have enjoyed playing a celestial gnome

Thanks for reply guys

Shadow Lodge ****

And I wanted to play an shield archon-blooded dwarf(playing humans but shiny and with wings, what a joke) but nooooo, had to orbital snipe my character because of a few powermongers.

The Exchange ****

I've been kind of hoping they will release a few non-human Tiefling/Aasimar race boons.

Something a little different (maybe a bit more restricted) than the race boons for those races up till now.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Since this is a PFS Aasimar thread, I have a question:

What is the history of these guys in PFS? I don't keep up much, but it seemed like they were first available with boons, then available to open creation, then back to being available only with boons. Was this for flavor reasons, or are they considered just powerful enough that a lot of characters were being rolled as Aasimar? Or something else?

Silver Crusade ***

cfalcon wrote:

Since this is a PFS Aasimar thread, I have a question:

What is the history of these guys in PFS? I don't keep up much, but it seemed like they were first available with boons, then available to open creation, then back to being available only with boons. Was this for flavor reasons, or are they considered just powerful enough that a lot of characters were being rolled as Aasimar? Or something else?

That pretty much sums it up.

For seasons 0 through 3, it was Core Rulebook races only, unless you had a boon. Tengu, aasimar, and tieflings were added as "always available" in season 4, then aasimar and tieflings were taken away at the end of season 5, and replaced by kitsune, wayangs, and nagaji.

As for why, it may be because they were powerful enough to be too popular, or it may have just been flavor. I don't know if Paizo staff ever officially confirmed or denied either reason. Probably a little of both.

Personally, I kinda like the rotating races thing, and hope they keep trading them out every couple of years.

Grand Lodge *** Venture-Lieutenant, California—Sacramento aka FLite

I thought they said somewhere that part of the reason was power, and part of the reason was that it made sense for there to be more good and evil planetouched when the main focus of the campaign was the world wound, but with that plot ending, it was a good time to reign in the two plane touched and focus on some of the other races whose homelands would be more relevant.

The Exchange ****

FLite wrote:
I thought they said somewhere that part of the reason was power, and part of the reason was that it made sense for there to be more good and evil planetouched when the main focus of the campaign was the world wound, but with that plot ending, it was a good time to reign in the two plane touched and focus on some of the other races whose homelands would be more relevant.

I think a lot of speculation was done along those lines, but all of it was from people who were not part of the decision process. Just a bunch of us players trying to "figure out the gears behind the curtain". Those person who were a part of making the decisions did not share that knowledge with us (not that they needed too - in fact I think it better that they didn't - less arguments this way).

Grand Lodge *

I wanted my tiefling to be small :(. It would've worked really well with the character.

Sovereign Court *** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

2 people marked this as a favorite.
claudekennilol wrote:
I wanted my tiefling to be small :(. It would've worked really well with the character.

I know it's not the same, but you could take a look at wayangs. They're small, creepy, fast and clever. Almost like small tieflings.

Sczarni *****

cfalcon wrote:

Since this is a PFS Aasimar thread, I have a question:

What is the history of these guys in PFS? I don't keep up much, but it seemed like they were first available with boons, then available to open creation, then back to being available only with boons. Was this for flavor reasons, or are they considered just powerful enough that a lot of characters were being rolled as Aasimar? Or something else?

Maybe a year after Aasimar/Tiefling were opened up as "Always Available" an informal poll was conducted here in this forum asking what races ppl's characters were. Human was by far the most popular, but literally tied for 2nd place were Aasimar and Tiefling.

While that in itself was never declared as a reason for their removal, it's certainly plausible evidence.

We'll probably never know for sure.

***

Fromper wrote:
cfalcon wrote:

Since this is a PFS Aasimar thread, I have a question:

What is the history of these guys in PFS? I don't keep up much, but it seemed like they were first available with boons, then available to open creation, then back to being available only with boons. Was this for flavor reasons, or are they considered just powerful enough that a lot of characters were being rolled as Aasimar? Or something else?

That pretty much sums it up.

For seasons 0 through 3, it was Core Rulebook races only, unless you had a boon. Tengu, aasimar, and tieflings were added as "always available" in season 4, then aasimar and tieflings were taken away at the end of season 5, and replaced by kitsune, wayangs, and nagaji.

As for why, it may be because they were powerful enough to be too popular, or it may have just been flavor. I don't know if Paizo staff ever officially confirmed or denied either reason. Probably a little of both.

Personally, I kinda like the rotating races thing, and hope they keep trading them out every couple of years.

I frequently played at tables where I was the only person not playing aasimar or teifling.

There is something to say about that.

Silver Crusade ***

Finlanderboy wrote:
Fromper wrote:

As for why, it may be because they were powerful enough to be too popular, or it may have just been flavor. I don't know if Paizo staff ever officially confirmed or denied either reason. Probably a little of both.

Personally, I kinda like the rotating races thing, and hope they keep trading them out every couple of years.

I frequently played at tables where I was the only person not playing aasimar or teifling.

There is something to say about that.

They were popular here, but not THAT popular. Seeing 1 or 2, sometimes even 3 at a table was pretty normal, but tables with no aasimar or tiefling were probably more common than tables of 4+ of them.

Grand Lodge ****

cfalcon wrote:

Since this is a PFS Aasimar thread, I have a question:

What is the history of these guys in PFS? I don't keep up much, but it seemed like they were first available with boons, then available to open creation, then back to being available only with boons. Was this for flavor reasons, or are they considered just powerful enough that a lot of characters were being rolled as Aasimar? Or something else?

All of the above, plus they realised that many players were rolling them to make use of SLAs for PrC prerequisites and nerfed that entry as well.

The campaign was really starting to fill up with those blonde freaks.

Shadow Lodge ****

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I really liked having aasimars along! Loved the themes people were experimenting(angels doing dirt deeds dirty cheap, biblical horror, animalistic agathions, etc). Didn't like how ubiquitous their mechanical superiority made them.

Now tieflings, tieflings I miss. Maybe not onispawn monks though. Maybe.

The Exchange ****

Finlanderboy wrote:
Fromper wrote:
cfalcon wrote:

Since this is a PFS Aasimar thread, I have a question:

What is the history of these guys in PFS? I don't keep up much, but it seemed like they were first available with boons, then available to open creation, then back to being available only with boons. Was this for flavor reasons, or are they considered just powerful enough that a lot of characters were being rolled as Aasimar? Or something else?

That pretty much sums it up.

For seasons 0 through 3, it was Core Rulebook races only, unless you had a boon. Tengu, aasimar, and tieflings were added as "always available" in season 4, then aasimar and tieflings were taken away at the end of season 5, and replaced by kitsune, wayangs, and nagaji.

As for why, it may be because they were powerful enough to be too popular, or it may have just been flavor. I don't know if Paizo staff ever officially confirmed or denied either reason. Probably a little of both.

Personally, I kinda like the rotating races thing, and hope they keep trading them out every couple of years.

I frequently played at tables where I was the only person not playing aasimar or teifling.

There is something to say about that.

I play with a group of four alchemists... Oread, sylph, Undean, and I'm an Ifrit.

Elemental alchemists.

The last time we played at a table with an Aasimar - it was a boon PC. Just like the rest of the table...

Dark Archive *

At base aasimar really only are ideal for a handful of classes. +2 Wis and +2 Cha is limiting. But the alternate racial heritages opened up by Blood of Angels makes them sort of a wonderkind. Suddenly you can pick (within limits) what two attributes get the +2. And with no -2 attribute, it's very appealing.

In my non-pfs campaigns I'm making most of my characters aasimar, even though most don't really fully much from it. Spiritualist with +2 wisdom? Awesome! Anything else I make can benefit from taking two points less cha (and maybe less wis) without incurring any penalties.

And to be honest, if it wasn't a boon race I'd probably be making all my PFS characters an aasimar now that I have blood of angels. You don't want to know how many builds I went through before settling on an ectoplasmist spiritualist.

Although, to be fair kitsune in PFS is quickly becoming my new go-to race. That -2 Str hurts. But for charisma based casters it's great.

Lantern Lodge ***** Venture-Agent aka Jayson MF Kip

Friendly "Fire" wrote:

I play with a group of four alchemists... Oread, sylph, Undean, and I'm an Ifrit.

Elemental alchemists.

The last time we played at a table with an Aasimar.

GO PLANET!

The Exchange ****

Jayson MF Kip wrote:
Friendly "Fire" wrote:

I play with a group of four alchemists... Oread, sylph, Undean, and I'm an Ifrit.

Elemental alchemists.

The last time we played at a table with an Aasimar.

GO PLANET!

we do have a 5th player thinking of running a Suli... we'll see if he starts that up.

when the first 3 of us started Alchemists we were "Earth, Wind and Fire"...

Our Tank is Earth (Feral Mutigen, and boosted strength)
Our Thief skills is Wind (Crypt Breaker alchemist)
and I'm the Face (lots of social skills).

We all can do healing (wands mostly) and we all have bombs for ranged energy damage, and Extracts for spells...

Shadow Lodge ****

3 people marked this as a favorite.

Together they make a strong fifth element.. boron

Silver Crusade ***

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Together they make a strong fifth element.. boron

Intelligent contribution to conversation: FAIL!

If you don't know what I'm talking about, you REALLY need to watch this movie on DVD with the D20 subtitles turned on.

Dark Archive *

Friendly "Fire" wrote:

when the first 3 of us started Alchemists we were "Earth, Wind and Fire"...

Out of curiosity, did the initial 3 of you all have a Preform skill involving singing or an instrument? And shouldn't there have been 20+ of you?

The Exchange ****

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Together they make a strong fifth element.. boron

I ... don't understand this post...

"Boron is a chemical element with symbol B and atomic number 5. Because boron is produced entirely by cosmic ray spallation and not by stellar nucleosynthesis it is a low-abundance element in both the Solar system and the Earth's crust.[12] Boron is concentrated on Earth by the water-solubility of its more common naturally occurring compounds, the borate minerals. These are mined industrially as evaporites, such as borax and kernite. The largest proven boron deposits are in Turkey, which is also the largest producer of boron minerals."

The Exchange ****

Daniel Myhre wrote:
Friendly "Fire" wrote:

when the first 3 of us started Alchemists we were "Earth, Wind and Fire"...

Out of curiosity, did the initial 3 of you all have a Preform skill involving singing or an instrument? And shouldn't there have been 20+ of you?

LOL! well, in the initial write-up we were going to all be bards. But the Oread wanted to be an Alchemist, so we used the 1st level re-build rules to switch over to Alchemists. I think I'm the only one to keep a rank in Perform (and mine is in Dance, I was looking to be a Flame Dancer).

The Exchange ****

Fromper wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Together they make a strong fifth element.. boron

Intelligent contribution to conversation: FAIL!

If you don't know what I'm talking about, you REALLY need to watch this movie on DVD with the D20 subtitles turned on.

what movie?

Shadow Lodge ****

nosig wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Together they make a strong fifth element.. boron

I ... don't understand this post...

Gamers Dorkness Rising

Watch it. Seriously. It will look VERY familiar. SKR is in it.

The Exchange ****

BigNorseWolf wrote:
nosig wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Together they make a strong fifth element.. boron

I ... don't understand this post...

Gamers Dorkness Rising

Watch it. Seriously. It will look VERY familiar. SKR is in it.

sigh... not from work. Later maybe...thanks

Silver Crusade ***

nosig wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
nosig wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Together they make a strong fifth element.. boron

I ... don't understand this post...

Gamers Dorkness Rising

Watch it. Seriously. It will look VERY familiar. SKR is in it.

sigh... not from work. Later maybe...thanks

There are people here on the forums who haven't watched Dorkness Rising?!?!??!!? *head explodes*

And seriously, even though you can watch it on YouTube for free, it's well worth getting the DVD just for the D20 subtitles. They add a whole new level to the humor.

Dark Archive *

Very funny movie. Surprisingly good too. Far better then it has any right to be. I loved the scene where they use the pile of dead identical bards (even down to the name) for cover.

Liberty's Edge **** RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16 aka Thrawn007

Finlanderboy wrote:


I frequently played at tables where I was the only person not playing aasimar or teifling.

There is something to say about that.

I've played at a few of those tables too. Due to how long these were open to build, I still seldom see a game day without at least 1 aasimar or tiefling at my table.

We now have quite a few Kitsune running around too, but not near what we saw for aasimar and tieflings.

Dark Archive *

Probably because kitsune have a -2 attribute, while aasimar don't. not sure bout tieflings since I've never looked at the race seriously.

The Exchange ****

I think the greater problem is that the attribute bonuses for both Aasimar and Tiefling PCs could be different depending on bloodline.

Besides the normal WIS & CHA bonus, and the DEX & INT bonus (less CHA) of the standard Aasimar & Tieflings you can build a PC that has...

a high STR and CHA?
or CON & CHA?
or CON & WIS?
or DEX & CHA?
or DEX & WIS?
or INT & CHA?
all those are chooses for Aasimar.

For Tieflings you can get
DEX & WIS (less INT) or
DEX & INT (less WIS) or
CON & WIS (less INT) or
STR & CHA (less INT) or
CON & WIS (less CHA) or
DEX & CHA (less INT) or
CON & CHA (less WIS) or
STR & WIS (less CHA) or
STR & WIS (less INT) or
DEX & CHA (less WIS)

this is like having 7 different races for Aasimar, and 11 different ones for Tieflings.

If we had 7 different Attribute lists for different types (bloodlines) of Elves, and 11 different ones for Dwarves, we'd have LOTS more of both those races. Heck - if we had different Attribute lists for the different breeds of HUMAN we'd have lots more of those guys too.

At least ...IMHO.

Shadow Lodge ****

Daniel Myhre wrote:
Probably because kitsune have a -2 attribute, while aasimar don't. not sure bout tieflings since I've never looked at the race seriously.

Kitsune only come with one stat set +dex +cha. Aasimar come with almost pick your two favorite stats. For almost every character there's a good set to pick.

The Exchange ****

Let us talk about Tiefling Attributes for a second.

The base Tiefling Stat changes are:

+2 DEX, +2 INT, and -2 CHA... but the bloodlines add in 5 others that have INT penalties rather than a bonus (and none with a DEX penalty?), and 4 with CHA bonuses (rather than the stock penalty).

SO, in (almost) every area where one breed of Tiefling is weak, another bloodline is strong.

Grand Lodge *

nosig wrote:

If we had 7 different Attribute lists for different types (bloodlines) of Elves, and 11 different ones for Dwarves, we'd have LOTS more of both those races. Heck - if we had different Attribute lists for the different breeds of HUMAN we'd have lots more of those guys too.

At least ...IMHO.

Exactly this. It's just because they're so versatile in what bonuses they give so they work for a much wider range of optimized builds. Just like there are builds that need an extra feat earlier, they'll pick human.

The Exchange ****

1 person marked this as a favorite.
claudekennilol wrote:
nosig wrote:

If we had 7 different Attribute lists for different types (bloodlines) of Elves, and 11 different ones for Dwarves, we'd have LOTS more of both those races. Heck - if we had different Attribute lists for the different breeds of HUMAN we'd have lots more of those guys too.

At least ...IMHO.

Exactly this. It's just because they're so versatile in what bonuses they give so they work for a much wider range of optimized builds. Just like there are builds that need an extra feat earlier, they'll pick human.

Sure - but that means when people say things like "I was at a table full of Aasimar last game" I wonder if there were 3+ of the same bloodline of Aasimar... say 3 Azata blooded.

It would be like saying "I was at a table last week with 3+ humanoids (an Elf, a Dwarf and a Gnome)..." One a Wizard, one a Cleric and the other a Bard.

There are different breeds of Aasimar that would be good as all three of those - just as there are different breeds of humanoid...

Dark Archive *

claudekennilol wrote:
nosig wrote:

If we had 7 different Attribute lists for different types (bloodlines) of Elves, and 11 different ones for Dwarves, we'd have LOTS more of both those races. Heck - if we had different Attribute lists for the different breeds of HUMAN we'd have lots more of those guys too.

At least ...IMHO.

Exactly this. It's just because they're so versatile in what bonuses they give so they work for a much wider range of optimized builds. Just like there are builds that need an extra feat earlier, they'll pick human.

Which is why it took me so long to finalize an aasimar build. I'd bought Blood of Angels a good 2 weeks before the convention that would give me the boon. Took till the day after the convention ended to decide on a build.

Then again, even without that book aasimar had fast become a favorite race of mine. Use to almost always play half elves. But now 60% of my test builds are aasimar, 30% are kitsune builds, with the rest split between human and half elf.

The extra feat isn't what keeps drawing me to human, it's the extra skill point.

Scarab Sages *

Not only were the bloodlines nice, but getting that energy resistance is killer too. We had a puzzle that damaged us for getting wrong, but the tiefling in the group resisted the damage (unless max was rolled). So, being frustrated at that point, we just did all permutations.

It was really hard to not be either one. I even had a build figured out to get a 25 AC at first level as a Tiefling. Of course, you couldn't do much of anything else but fight, but...

Since they are boon races now, I think it would be interesting if a boon allowed you to be a Gnome Aasimar (or whatever non-human base), but it is what it is.

Sovereign Court *** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

Zauron13 wrote:
Since they are boon races now, I think it would be interesting if a boon allowed you to be a Gnome Aasimar (or whatever non-human base), but it is what it is.

There's something to be said for this.

That said, getting all the upsides of being small (to-hit, AC and stealth bonuses) without most of the traditional downsides (20ft speed, Strength penalty) should be looked at too. Probably if you just add the movement penalty it'll be balanced enough (compare Wayang).

EDIT: that's something that can be taken into account on a boon sheet.

Grand Lodge *

Ascalaphus wrote:
claudekennilol wrote:
I wanted my tiefling to be small :(. It would've worked really well with the character.
I know it's not the same, but you could take a look at wayangs. They're small, creepy, fast and clever. Almost like small tieflings.

I know, I really like wayangs mechanically and flavor-wise. They really should put out more material about them. But for the specific character I was talking about, a small tiefling would have been mechanically superior and that's why I wanted him to be small.

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