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I know it sounds like an odd question, but I somehow got the idea in my head of doing a Pathfinder PC based on the main characters from the relatively obscure comic book series, Way of the Rat. The main character is an thief and staff master with a talking monkey as a mentor.
Any suggestions for how to replicate that?
I originally thought of this while looking at the Chosen One paladin, but I think this guy would be a little too wild for a paladin. Though maybe having him be an ex-thief who is being reformed through the "guidance" of the monkey familiar (who would pretty much just smack the kid upside the head for 4 levels until he can speak at level 5) would still make that work.
Any other archetypes or things for getting a familiar on a staff wielding melee type? The staff as primary weapon thing is more optional than the monkey - I could see doing a different weapon, or maybe doing a monk with a staff, but mostly using unarmed strikes, if there's a monk archetype to get a familiar that I haven't seen yet.
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That might work. I just picked up the Familiar Folio over the weekend and haven't had a chance to look at it much yet.
Just skimming that archetype, and the familiar archetypes, it seems like the Emissary archetype for the familiar might be good. Since this is for a melee character that doesn't have spells, the Deliver Touch Spells and Share Spells abilities would be useless, and the Emissary archetype lets the familiar trade those out for some good stuff. And the fact that it makes the familiar divine actually kinda fits my PC idea thematically, with the monkey being the brains (and morals) of the team.
I'd prefer a good way for a monk or rogue (preferably unchained in both cases) to get a familiar or animal companion. It looks like the Carnivalist Rogue gets a familiar, but the archetype sucks for adventuring rogues.
While not great at combat, a Sorcerer who dumps Int, and selects Arcane bloodline to get a familiar can use a staff and the familiar can easily be smarter than the character.
It can also work for any with Eldritch Heritage (Arcane), since that does the same. Now you can be a more martial type, and still have the familiar.
You can be a Monk or Ninja and easily have the monastic feel with a viable martial. Neither needs Int that much. Monks use Wisdom, and Ninjas use Charisma as an alternate stat. Add the bloodline, and presto, you are the Jade Rat.
/cevah
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Eldritch heritage (arcane) or a wizard variant multiclass will give you a familiar at level 3, but if you want to play the concept from level 1 I'd second the Eldritch Guardian fighter.
You could potentially multiclass since the familiar's BAB, HD, HP, saves, and skills are all based on your character's total values rather than your effective wizard level, and Boon Companion will increase your effective wizard level by 4.
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Yeah, the Eldritch Guardian Fighter does seem like the easiest way to get the familiar. It's just that the character was an unarmored thief, so he'd be more appropriate as a rogue, monk, swashbuckler, or something like that. And I'd like him to have some skill ranks.
There's also the route of taking Familiar Bond and Improved Familiar Bond feats from Familiar Folio, which will give any PC a familiar. Prereq is Iron Will, so I'd probably need to be human to get the familiar at level 1, then take the Improved feat at 3. That could be tough - trying to be a front liner with no combat related feats until level 5.
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There's also the route of taking Familiar Bond and Improved Familiar Bond feats from Familiar Folio, which will give any PC a familiar. Prereq is Iron Will, so I'd probably need to be human to get the familiar at level 1, then take the Improved feat at 3. That could be tough - trying to be a front liner with no combat related feats until level 5.
Looking at some of the classes I haven't really examined before, I think brawler may actually work with this. Since quarterstaff is a double monk weapon, I think it works with Brawler's Flurry. I'll have to look into this possibility.
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Yeah, the Eldritch Guardian Fighter does seem like the easiest way to get the familiar. It's just that the character was an unarmored thief, so he'd be more appropriate as a rogue, monk, swashbuckler, or something like that. And I'd like him to have some skill ranks.
That's where multiclassing would come in. A level or two in monk and a few in rogue or slayer after your first fighter level would give you Wis to AC, a chunk of skill points, and a few other agile/sneaky features.
I'd forgotten about Familiar Bond, though. As you say the feat cost is pretty steep, but you're looking at low will-save classes that would benefit from the Iron Will pre-req, and if you're not going to be using the familiar in combat then you don't need the Eldritch Guardian's ability to share combat feats. You'll be a little weak for the first few levels, especially level 1, but I think you'll be OK. And yes, Brawler can flurry with a quarterstaff.
The Quarterstaff is not finesseable, so you're going to go for a strength build.
any char can get a Familiar nowadays (Familiar Bond feat). Possible staff fighters are Monk and Staff Magus.
A more thievery approach would be the Carnivalist Rogue or my personal favourite, the Nature Thief: Nature Fang Druid (yeah, Shillelagh!) with Monkey Domain
You can also go backwards, starting with a halfling (reflavored to be a talking monkey -- they're both Small size, agile, etc.) wizard or cleric or oracle or whatever. Then, at 7th level, grab Leadership for a staff-wielding rogue cohort. This might better represent the "wise mentor" flavor.
You can also go backwards, starting with a halfling (reflavored to be a talking monkey -- they're both Small size, agile, etc.) wizard or cleric or oracle or whatever. Then, at 7th level, grab Leadership for a staff-wielding rogue cohort. This might better represent the "wise mentor" flavor.
I like this idea, too. You could also go with a vanara (a monkey-like playable race) and ask your GM if you can make it small instead of medium.
Whatever you choose, don't focus on the thief part of your character with classes. Use your classes to get good at fighting (and possibly also the familiar). Then just use skill points to pick up sleight of hand, stealth, and disable device for the thief aspect. There is no class that will give you an inherent bonus to thievery, and going with the rogue will just make you worse at everything else you do.
Basically, choose a class that will make you good at your quarterstaff. You may also goose a class that gives you a familiar, but you can gain this with feats, too (eldritch heritage --> arcane bloodline). Then use skills to focus on the thief part.
The staff magus gets lots of skills with a quarterstaff and can get a familiar with an arcana.
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This would be for a PFS PC, so no Leadership, no vanara, and no custom stuff.
Besides, I really like the idea of an actual monkey, unable to talk until level 5, who sits on the PC's shoulder and literally slaps him on the back of the head whenever he's tempted to do something stupid/illegal/immoral.
Pick the previously mentioned fighter archetype and specialize in the staff or go with a staff magus and then pick up a familiar with your 3rd level magus arcana.
Alternatively, go with a monk, a ranger, or a normal fighter, and then get the feat Eldritch heritage (pick the arcane bloodline) and grab your familiar that way.
Some interesting suggestions so far. That Nature Fang Druid with the Monkey Domain has definite potential. I'll have to look through them later when I have more time.
Nature Fang can pick dex-req Ranger Combat Style feats, such as Two-Weapon Fighting while still doing a strength build. However it is sometimes not recommended to TWF without full BAB.
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Some interesting suggestions so far. That Nature Fang Druid with the Monkey Domain has definite potential. I'll have to look through them later when I have more time.Nature Fang can pick dex-req Ranger Combat Style feats, such as Two-Weapon Fighting while still doing a strength build. However it is sometimes not recommended to TWF without full BAB.
Usually not, but that same archetype gets you Studied Target, which boosts your accuracy up to full BAB levels. The archetype is actually more accurate than rogue, which is kinda depressing XD.
I would advise looking into the following options.
(1) A Staff Magus can do amazing things with staves. Having played one, I can tell you they are a lot of fun.
(2) A Beastblade Magus can do amazing things with a familiar. I haven't played one, but combined with the familiar archetypes from the Familiar Folio you have lots of options for customizing your monkey.
(3) These two archetypes stack! So try building a Beastblade/Staff Magus and see how you like it.
As others have said, Staff Magus is a neat archetype, and you can get the Familiar arcana at level 3, as long as an archetype doesn't change when you get your arcana.
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Some interesting suggestions so far. That Nature Fang Druid with the Monkey Domain has definite potential. I'll have to look through them later when I have more time.
Looking at this one, I'm starting to like this idea. Shillelagh is a great spell for a quarterstaff wielder, and this build can do two weapon fighting to use both sides of the doubled weapon without the dex prereqs, using the slayer talents to pick up the ranger TWF fighting style feats.
I'm even tempted to take Magical Lineage: Shillelagh and Quickened Spell at level 7, to cast it as a swift action in a level 4 spell slot.
My big worry is just hitting with only 3/4 BAB and -2 from TWF. Weapon Focus seems mandatory, and the Studied Target bonus should help, but it still doesn't seem like a high hit rate build. I guess that's why it's important to maximize the damage on every hit with Shillelagh, sneak attacks, and Power Attack.
That's why I'm thinking flanks could be crucial. Given the acrobatics bonus from the Monkey domain, I was thinking of picking up a trait that gives acrobatics as a class skill, and using that to get in position. I'll have some dex, and there are boots that give extra bonuses to that, which should help.
If hitting is a problem, Power Attack is a bad ideal...
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Part of my problem is that I honestly don't know if hitting will be a problem, because I'm just theorycrafting right now, and haven't actually played this before. But all of the things that up the damage potential will hurt the attack rolls (even Shillelagh after low levels).
Compare this druid to a generic fighter's hit chances:
1. Both should have the same high strength.
2. Both should have Weapon Focus.
3. The fighter has full BAB vs the druid's 3/4. Studied Attack should almost catch that up, but at the expense of having to spend a move action, until being able to do it as a swift action at level 9.
4. The fighter can get Greater Weapon Focus, which isn't available to other classes.
5. The fighter can boost the magic on his weapon, which the druid can't do if he's using Shillelagh, so the druid's weapon will always only be +1. But if they're both doing TWF, then the damage dice favor the druid, because the 2d6 on every attack from Shillelagh is better than what a medium fighter can usually do with TWF.
6. Power Attack favors the fighter for damage, and the druid for hit rolls, due to the slower BAB progression. And of course, it's optional, so either can skip it if he's having a hard time hitting a high AC enemy.
7. I was going to say that the lack of money spent on weapon upgrades favors the druid, since he can spend it on boosting his strength belt faster. But he'll have other equipment issues that a fighter wouldn't, like Pearls of Power, wands, rods, etc, so they're probably upgrading strength belts at a similar rate.
Ok, so now that I've laid it all out like this, it doesn't seem that bad. The druid needs to prep before attacking (Studied Target, casting Shillelagh), but he should come close to keep up with the fighter's hit rolls, as long as he focuses on strength as his primary stat. Since he's focusing on buff spells, he really only needs enough wisdom to cast them - higher wisdom for high save DCs isn't important.