Using Crushing Blow with Unarmed Strike

[DiesALot]

Hey guys,

So I'm making a Tetori monk, and came across this.

Crushing Blow looks pretty awesome... But, it says I can make a Stunning Fist attack as a full round action, and if I do, it reduces the targets AC by my wis modifer for 1 minute.

If I use that though, I wouldn't be able to do any Unarmed strikes with it would I?

I've basically got my Tetori set up so it's come in, Unarmed strike (taking the Grab special attack at the same time to initiate a grapple) and pretty much hold him and continue doing damage. But when not grappling (if I fail) my attack mods are terrible (10/5).

So something to reduce AC would be pretty awesome.

[Secret Wizard]

It's extremely unlikely that you will manage to land the DC for a Stunning Fist as a Tetori. The only one who'd consistently hit with that is a Mantis Style Sensei.

[Imbicatus]

In approximately 30 levels of play experience with monks of various types, I have landed Stunning Fist exactly three times.

First, you have to hit. Then they have to make the fort save. If you are in melee, most of the things you will use this against have Fort as their best save, and unless you have a very high wis and mantis style, your DC is going to be somewhat low.

This feat is a trap. Don't take it.

[Secret Wizard]

Imbicatus wrote:

In approximately 30 levels of play experience with monks of various types, I have landed Stunning Fist exactly three times.

First, you have to hit. Then they have to make the fort save. If you are in melee, most of the things you will use this against have Fort as their best save, and unless you have a very high wis and mantis style, your DC is going to be somewhat low.

This feat is a trap. Don't take it.

My Sensei Monk loves it though. Enforcer to Intimidate, then Mantis Style Crushing Blows or Stunning Fists as needed.

[Imbicatus]

Yes, Sensei can get good use out of thanks to having WIS to hit and Inspire Courage to help with hitting, and the WIS primary makes the DC high too. I still don't care for the action economy hit of the feat though.

And still, even with a massive DC, several things have massive Fort Saves.

[Tinlar]

Bumping an old thread here as opposed to starting a new one.

With Crushing Blow it seems there is no Fort Save required.

Crushing blow reads as:

Quote:

You can make a Stunning Fist attempt as a full-round action. If successful, instead of stunning your target, you reduce the target’s AC by an amount equal to your Wisdom modifier for 1 minute. This penalty does not stack with other penalties applied due to Crushing Blow.

Stunning fist reads as:

Quote:

You must declare that you are using this feat before you make your attack roll (thus, a failed attack roll ruins the attempt). Stunning Fist forces a foe damaged by your unarmed attack to make a Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 your character level + your Wis modifier), in addition to dealing damage normally...

Stunning fist normally forces a foe to make a save or be stunned. That save or be stunned is replaced with a new ability that reduces AC. That AC reduction has no save included in the wording of it.

Discuss...

[Imbicatus]

The ability references stunning fist, and says "If successful". A successful stunning fist attempt is if you hit and the foe fails the save. All crushing blow does is change the effect.