They showcased the Regenerate spell in the most recent blog.
Anyone else amused at the fact that you can bring a person back from the dead with a 5th level spell, but it still takes a 7th level spell to regrow a hand?
On the flip side, I played in Skull & Shackles with a pirate who lost an arm and a leg to a shark, which led to some fun scenes that wouldn't have worked if he could have just paid a cleric a few hundred GP and gotten a fresh pair of limbs.
Personally, I'd be thrilled if limb loss was better-covered in the rules, and if Regenerate was moved to maybe a 3rd level spell, with the effect of reconnecting or regrowing a limb, plus healing 15 damage one time. Then the higher level versions could work as shown in the blog.
What do you think? I'll put my specific proposal in a follow-up post.
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Well, outside of role played based causes there aren't any ways to lose limbs*. So the effects of regeneration were largely unimportant. If they want to include more limb removing effects, I would expect them to make it relatively easy to fix it as well.
*The only mechanics for limb lost I can think of in the rules anywhere is that you can lose a limb in Skull and Shackles if you would have died, and instead lose a limb.
Reviewing limbs isn't the primary thrust of the spell or why the spell occupies such a high level slot. It's mostly just favour ALTHOUGH maybe it's proof that criticalnfailures run the risk of chopping off limbs!!!@
First, I like chopping heads off hydras, arms off trolls, and tentacles off of noodly monsters that are trying to eat my friends.
Second, my goal is to design a system that is both useful enough of a tactic that it is worth using in niche circumstances, but limited so that you can't min-max a character to automatically chop off limbs willy-nilly.
Third, I want an in-universe reason for why some people will still be missing limbs or eyes, and why Numerian cybernetics would be used.
Specific Proposal for How to Mutilate Monsters (and the Party)
There are two ways to lose limbs in a fight.
1. A foe who is trying to injure a limb reduces you to 0 hp, and you must make a save based on the damage dealt or else lose that limb.
2. A foe scores a critical hit against you, and you choose to sacrifice a limb to keep the blow away from something more vital.
Option 1 - Disarm is More Than Just a Combat Maneuver
I propose that if you use the Disarm combat maneuver against a creature that is using unarmed attacks or natural weapons, on a success you deal some damage and the foe takes a penalty to attacking with that weapon for a round or two. (Balance would require playtesting.)
Likewise, if you attempt to disarm someone with a weapon and you get a critical success, you deal damage to the hand wielding that weapon. Not only do they drop the weapon, but they take a penalty to fighting with that hand if they draw a new weapon.
If your disarm attempt does enough damage to reduce a creature 0 hp, they need to make a save (I'm thinking somehow based on damage dealt, but again, that depends on playtesting and how the rest of the rules work) or else lose that limb. Maybe a failure loses the hand, and a critical failure loses the whole arm.
Something similar could happen with the Dirty Trick combat maneuver. If you're trying to blind someone, and you get a critical success, you do some damage, and if that drops them to 0, they might lose an eye. Deafened might take an ear or rupture an eardrum. Maybe add an option to slow someone down, which might potentially remove a foot.
(Also, damage type would determine whether the limb is removed or just crippled. If you really wanted to get granular, maybe there'd be an option for a wound that debilitates you but can heal naturally over a few weeks.)
Option 2 - Well At Least You're Not Dead
Whenever someone critically hits you, you can use a reaction to convert that damage to a normal hit by putting a limb in the way of the blow.
After the attack deals its (normal, not doubled) damage, make a save somehow based on that damage amount. On a success, you lose a hand or foot. On a failure, you lose the whole arm or leg. As a consequence of losing a limb, you start bleeding, and probably should be stunned for a while or something, but you might still be conscious.
The Regenerate Spell, Revised
Regenerate would be a 3rd level spell that heals 15 damage. If you have a lost limb, you can reattach it immediately. If the limb is gone, it regrows over the span of 3 rounds.
The spell restores your body to what it considers its 'normal' state, and over time, bodies adapt to missing limbs. A lost limb can only be regrown within 1 day per caster level. Likewise, casting regenerate on a limb that has received an advanced prosthesis (like Numerian cybernetics or dwarven forgelimbs) causes the limb to regrow misshapen.
Gentle repose can preserve a lost limb, but doesn't keep a body from adjusting to a new normal, so won't help regrow the limb after the 1 day per caster level period has passed.
The 7th level and higher versions of regenerate, however, can regrow a limb regardless of how long ago it was lost.
Trolls, Tentacles, and Hydras
Some monsters are designed to be delimbed. Trolls would just make judicious use of the 'intentional limb sacrifice' mechanic, and would have some ability that lets them ignore bleed damage and not be stunned after losing a limb.
Creatures with grabbing tentacles or long necks might have an ability that lowers their defense score when people try to disarm them, and causes the limb to be chopped off if it takes a certain amount of damage, either through Sunder or Disarm.
So if your buddy is grappled by an otyugh, you can use the Disarm maneuver to free him, and have a good chance to injure the limb (so it takes a penalty to attack), or possibly remove it. If you're fighting a hydra, you can hack at the necks to wound them, and it ends up being easier than just attacking the body.
How does that sound?
*The only mechanics for limb lost I can think of in the rules anywhere is that you can lose a limb in Skull and Shackles if you would have died, and instead lose a limb.
I liked that as an option. Especially if you want to run a more lethalish game but don't actually want the story glitches which come from people having to keep rolling up new characters.
There's a 5E rule we have used in PF too where significant damage (like suffering criticals or dropping below zero basically) run the risk of permanent injury.
Having an ability to regrow lost limbs when there's very little scope to actually lose them has always perplexed me.
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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What I really care about is that if you have the regenerate spell to reattach severed limbs, please include at least a few things in core, spells, feats, magic items, monsters, traps, which sever limbs so there's a reason to need regenerate aside from NPCs who are simply declared to have lost a limb in the past.
Maybe they just need to design hydras so, say, they start with 50 HP and 5 heads, but when they drop to 40 HP a head falls off, and at the end of its next turn it gains 20 HP and grows back two heads unless the stump was burnt.
Like, the monster could just auto-decapitate, instead of it being something the players choose to do.
JoelF847, I proposed in another thread that maybe monsters could threaten delimbing as a big scary attack that takes a round to set up. Like, a troll can make two claw attacks and a bite attack on its turn, and if a claw hits, it grabs you. If it has grabbed you, on its next turn it can spend three actions to rend, which does a ton of damage and rips an arm off if you fail a save.
The challenge is always that if you make a mechanic that PCs can use, you need to be sure they don't want to just spam it as the solution to every challenge. The occasional villain getting a hand chopped off (but still fighting with his other hand, maybe) is potentially cool, but you don't want every fight ending with the Black Knight just having stumps but still conscious because he has HP left.
I don't think Delimbing is the correct word.
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I don't think Delimbing is the correct word.How about disarming
Well that works for at least 2 possible examples
I really like the monster option of sacrificing a limb to avoid a critical. Instead of double damage, you get regular damage and a lost limb or head. I'd limit this trait to specific monsters one would expect to lose limbs as part of a fantasy narrative, i.e. Hydras & tentacled horrors.
Though I prefer the crit-avoidance mechanic, in some instances, like Hydras & Trolls, losing parts might even be a normal result of hit point damage. That's because it may even be a good thing for them!
The Hydra bounces back a few rounds later with an extra head while Trolls might have a loose limb or head still attacking while they regrow a new one. I think having stats for troll limbs would be cool.
I could imagine some plant monsters having a similar ability too, i.e. vines still attacking after being lopped off. In essence they'd be separate monsters factored into the main monster's CR.
Now that I think about it, various oozes could be like this as could the Amphisbaena. I think this mechanic of spawning body parts into new sub-monsters has a lot of visual & narrative oomph!
Heck, having a proto-horrific Cthulhuian template that gave this ability would make my day.
Cheers.
Well now they have a reason to bring back the "sword of sharpness" wich severed a random limb on a critical hit:) It was the lesser loved little brother of the "Vorpal sword".
Also it would be nice to have a lower level version regenerate that restores one lost limb/organ per casting.
I don't think Delimbing is the correct word.How about disarming
De'feet'... :P
*The only mechanics for limb lost I can think of in the rules anywhere is that you can lose a limb in Skull and Shackles if you would have died, and instead lose a limb.
Rend Body spell: "one of the target’s limbs (determined randomly) is gruesomely ripped from the target’s body".
Well the thing about regeneration is that it brings you back from the dead aswell as regrowing limbs... so that might be why its 7th level?
Well the thing about regeneration is that it brings you back from the dead aswell as regrowing limbs... so that might be why its 7th level?
It doesn't bring you back from the dead, but it will keep you from dying while it's functions (though not from being unconscious).
Well the thing about regeneration is that it brings you back from the dead aswell as regrowing limbs... so that might be why its 7th level?It doesn't bring you back from the dead, but it will keep you from dying while it's functions (though not from being unconscious).
Well if we are going by technicallities you are dead by the time you hit HP = Negative more than 10 + con, and when regeneration is active you are indeed prevented from dying, but if regeneration was supressed or activated after death it also brings you back to being "alive" as you regain HP beyond the death point.
Remember kids: Always burn the bodies of regenerating creatures (Or bath them in acid), and do check if that fancy ring of a BBEG is taken off... just to make sure!
