Pyromancer: Fire Kineticist or Fire Elemental Sorcerer?


Advice


So my friend wants to play a pure pyromancer ranged blaster, (think chandra from mtg) and is have a bit of analysis paralysis in regards to what would be a more optimized choice in terms of ranged damage dealing. I informed him of the problems pure fire typed damage will have at later levels, but he really loves the concept.

Does anyone have any suggested builds or advice as far as one class over the other?

He's planning on being human, if it helps.


Pyrokinetic. Hands down. in my opinion.

I believe they have an infusion or (that other name) thingy that helps them bypass or blast through resistance and maybe immunity...

and past that. EVERYTHING they do is flavored in charbroiled flames. From attacking to flying to I think some neat utility stuff.

and every iota of his ability can be firey. or some extra stuff if he wanted to.
generally more durable than a sorcerer too. so much more maluable.

Sorcerer clearly has some serious advantages..
buuut if he wants fire and effective and firey fun. Kintecist I think will do him the best.

sorcerrer will probably hve more options at higher levels and can change thingss around..
but they really feeel so much less.. firey planeswalker

Silver Crusade

I'd probably say pyrokineticist, most new people would LOVE the ability to just blast at will without thinking, and it'll make him feel way more powerful to just be able to spew flames whenever he wants without consequence, or at least that's how I'd feel. Pyro also gets Searing Flames to help somewhat alleviate the fire resistance issue. New players tend to be reckless with resources, so giving them something that's less resource intensive is generally a good thing.

As long as they take burning infusion at 1st, searing flames at 2nd, they're as good as any pyrokineticist can be, after that it's all up to personal preference, although fire's fury is always a nice utility as well. I'd probably suggest kinetic blade for 3rd just to give them a melee option and because it's a sick visual, with weapon finesse as their feat.

EDIT: Since it sounds like a home game, you could easily homebrew a feat to help them deal with fire resistance as well, or see about toning down creatures that have fire resistance for no reason (a TON of creatures get it as a throw in.) Here's an ideal progression

1st: Burning Infusion, X feat (anything's fine here)
2nd: Searing Flames
3rd: Kinetic Blade, weapon finesse
4th: Fire's Fury
etc...


Pyrokineticist, duh!


I'd definitely say Chandra, as far as I know her, is far more along the lines of being a Fire Kineticist in terms of flavor. From what I've heard on the forums, while fire DR is somewhat of an issue, the fire Kinetics does has some means around it. As long as he isn't playing in a Devil heavy campaign, he shouldn't be too stuck. Additionally, gaining an additional element later on means even if he focuses on fire, he won't necessarily be denied the ability to contribute to a fight.

As for a Sorcerer, well, Fire Elemental Sorcerer is a ninth level caster that likes fire. Pretty straight forward stuff. Natural, an Ifrit Sorcerer would be the way to go if you really wanted to be optimized, though human is rarely a poor choice. Sorcerer is less MAD than the Pyro Kineticist, but both offer plenty of utility. Sorcerer would be far squishier, whiles a Kineticist is actually pretty durable with their emphasis on dexterity and constitution. Obviously, most people well tell you (And not incorrectly) that ninth level casters are the stronger choice.

However, the fire Kineticist specializes, if I recall, in aoe damage with side effects, as opposed to a single target boom. His attacks won't be quite a metamagicked fireball, but he will be able to throw flames. All. Day. Long.


Well....at level 1, a sorcerer might be able to shoot what? 2 big fire spells a day?

meanwhile, a kineticist can do it as much as they darn well please. 1 fight for 20 round, 10 fights. Who cares? As long as he doesn't get knocked out.

While the discussion of an 'all day' character isn't actually that productive once you start getting levels in there... you have to admit- at level 1, sorcerers VERY often have to just resort to shooting cantrips or crossbows.

There is also the fact that this character you referenced...while I won't say it is good armor, it still technically includes chainmail, so lets call it that. Sorcerers can't really use armor...and that is a noticable detriment at early levels. In comparison, a kineticist could run around in light armor, with rather high dex and high con(only two important stats), and heck- you can even use a masterwork buckler if you felt like it (no actual penalties for use).

Now, later on, most of the advantages that a sorcerer brings...is basically things that abandon your theme. IE- yes, they have much fantastic versatility...but most of the time that will not include fire spells.

Now, if we were talking about an ice themed character, then we would have MUCH better competition, since there are a bunch of great cold spells that are low level (frost bite, snowball, frigid touch flurry of snow balls- heck, even the crappy cantrip can be themed) and a lot of those spells can do damage and also add other effects (or you can add effects really easily by using rime spell metamagic)


Kineticist! It may not have the damage of a cross-blooded sorcerer, but the fire flavour is all natural, smoky, and all the time with the pyrokineticist!


I might also mention- lava doesn't seem that far from this character's theme.

if you do end up having problems with a pure fire user....maybe take earth at level 7?

It gives you options for physical damage, some nice talents like entangling...and if you look to grab the second defense talent, then you are going to make BARBARIANS jealous with your DR.


Wow, Thanks everyone! That was super fast, unanimous, and numerous! I'll link him to the page, and that should help alleviate any further confusion or doubts he had. Thanks again!

Silver Crusade

No problem, have them check out my guide for the kineticist if they need anymore help.


I'd say it depends on what level range you're playing. If we're talking 1-7 then I'd agree with the others and say Kineticist is the way to go. If we're talking 8-11 I could see going either way, as Sorcerer is hitting its stride but Kineticist still has a lot of really cool features. As levels keep going higher the Sorcerer just gets more and more cool goodies, including a lot of spell slots. When the Sorcerer has 5 spell slots being able to go all day is a huge advantage. When the Sorcerer has 50 spell slots, not so much. Sorcerer just wins out at higher levels, IMO.


"Ranged Damage Dealing" being his goal, Fire Kineticist (even at the highest level) seems the way to go. Sorcerers can -do- a lot more at the higher levels, but aren't really that great at pouring out damage. If he's not into battlefield control, not only will it be dreadful going up in levels as a Sorcerer, but once he's into his own, he won't be doing what he imagines his character should be.

Damage, Thematically, Etc... he's best off going Pyrokinetic.


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Sphynx wrote:
Sorcerers can -do- a lot more at the higher levels, but aren't really that great at pouring out damage.

I'd completely disagree with that sentiment. Sorcerers can do a lot more at higher levels in addition to being great at pouring out damage. While spells like fireball deal mediocre damage by default, you don't need to do much work to correct that. A few feats, the magical lineage trait, and some good metamagic use can really turn the sorcerer into an effective damage-dealing machine. 100 DPR in an area of effect isn't too hard a threshold to hit by 12th level, and it just keeps getting better from there (spell perfection at 15th level in particular is a game-changer).


I think Raving Dork got a Sorc to 6d6+20 at level 6 with fireballs, that's pretty sweet.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Errant_Epoch wrote:
I think Raving Dork got a Sorc to 6d6+20 at level 6 with fireballs, that's pretty sweet.

I believe it was 10d6 + 20.

He used CL boosts (Signature Spell, a trait, and +1 CL to evocation) to get up from 6d6 to 10d6. The +20 is half Bloodline Arcana (Orc) and half Goblin Fire Drum.


It'll be nice, until you inevitably come across something with fire immunity.

Which is basically everything over 15 CR.


Soilent wrote:

It'll be nice, until you inevitably come across something with fire immunity.

Which is basically everything over 15 CR.

Believe me or not, more than an half of creatures over CR 15 is neither immune neither has resistance to fire (before buffs). That's something.

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