The PRD gives explains spellcasting requirements as follows:
To cast a spell, you must be able to speak (if the spell has a verbal component), gesture (if it has a somatic component), and manipulate the material components or focus (if any). Additionally, you must concentrate to cast a spell.
It also explains that "unless noted otherwise, you must be holding a rod to use its abilities."
Is it therefore impossible to cast a spell that has both a divine focus and a somatic component with a metamagic rod?
You need one hand to hold the holy symbol and another to hold the rod, which doesn't leave anything free to actually make gestures needed for the the somatic component.
I've never seen any GM insist that you need both hands free to cast a spell with a divine focus. If they do in your game, try Cassock of the Clergy, which is hands-free?
There is also a trait that gives you a birthmark in the shape of a holy symbol...
Manipulating material components is considered part of the spell casting and can be done with the same hand.
Manipulating material components is considered part of the spell casting and can be done with the same hand.
This is correct.
Spellcasting never requires more than one hand. You can cast spells while grappled (concentration check applies, but you can still do it) but you cannot use a greatsword while grappled - because being grappled limits you to using only one hand.
So a wizard can hold a staff and still cast. A cleric can have a shield and still cast. A magus can have a weapon and still cast. Etc.
All of those scenarios allow the spellcaster to make somatic components, manipulate material components, and handle divine focuses, all with the same one hand while his other hand is grappled or occupied.
All of which holds true (pun intended) while holding a rod in the other hand.
It only gets tricky when you want to do all of this. For example, if I want my cleric who wears a heavy shield to cast a spell with a metamagic rod - now I'm trying to do too much.
Manipulating material components is considered part of the spell casting and can be done with the same hand.This is correct.
Spellcasting never requires more than one hand. You can cast spells while grappled (concentration check applies, but you can still do it) but you cannot use a greatsword while grappled - because being grappled limits you to using only one hand.
So a wizard can hold a staff and still cast. A cleric can have a shield and still cast. A magus can have a weapon and still cast. Etc.
All of those scenarios allow the spellcaster to make somatic components, manipulate material components, and handle divine focuses, all with the same one hand while his other hand is grappled or occupied.
All of which holds true (pun intended) while holding a rod in the other hand.
It only gets tricky when you want to do all of this. For example, if I want my cleric who wears a heavy shield to cast a spell with a metamagic rod - now I'm trying to do too much.
This is why I like bucklers. Only 1 AC less, free hand.
It only gets tricky when you want to do all of this. For example, if I want my cleric who wears a heavy shield to cast a spell with a metamagic rod - now I'm trying to do too much.
What if the shield has a reliquary?
It only gets tricky when you want to do all of this. For example, if I want my cleric who wears a heavy shield to cast a spell with a metamagic rod - now I'm trying to do too much.What if the shield has a reliquary?
Well, first, it wouldn't exactly "have" a reliquary; it becomes a reliquary.
And this is an excellent way for a divine caster to always have his DF in hand without having to put down his shield or weapon to do so.
But it's worth noting that for most spells, the holy symbol (DF) is considered to be used with the casting hand so there really is no mechanical benefit to turning your shield into a reliquary shield - either way, you'll have the ability to use your divine focus as long as you have one hand (normally, the one that isn't holding the shield) free for casting.
So I think the main benefit of this reliquary shield is that you can Channel Energy with a shield and weapon in your hands. Without a reliquary shield, you would have to put down your shield or your weapon to brandish your holy symbol.
What you really need is a similar ability to build metamagic rods into your shield or weapon so that you can have your free hand for casting and still have something (shield, weapon, etc.) in your other hand AND that same other hand could be wielding a metamagic rod at the same time.
A reliquary Claw Hand Shield should do the trick. http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advancedClassGuide/gear/specificArmorsSh ields.html
What about reliquary weapon?
If manipulating with a divine focus is a free action and part of casting spell, can I get "quick draw" feat to get my sword in hand and then leave it in hand after spell is cast? And than drop it on weapon cord, try to cast new spell, also get it to hand as a free (not swift) action?
Sounds silly, but RAW
Weapon cords are a move action to recover your weapon these days; you're behind on the errata.
A reliquary weapon counts as a holy symbol, but if you need to perform somatic components of a spell you need the hand free, not holding a weapon (even a reliquary weapon). You can change the grip on a two-handed weapon as a free action though in order to cast a spell. As GM Blake said above
'So I think the main benefit of this reliquary shield is that you can Channel Energy with a shield and weapon in your hands. Without a reliquary shield, you would have to put down your shield or your weapon to brandish your holy symbol.'
Which is more or less the benefit of a reliquary weapon too.
More problems with cords? Really?
Ok, does not matter. THis is a thread about components and free hands, so why are you telling me about "YOu need a hand free", when I need a hand to use holy/unholy symbol? What about spells with symbol required and material component too? Three hands? It does not make sense.
And my question about reliquary weapon is pretty reasonable, I can not see any rule that you can rely upon to say "no, you can not because..."
Ok, its fine. And what about casting a spell with it in hand as a somatic component? If it acts as holy symbol and if, for example, I have a quick draw?
(And what about quick draw and weapon cord now?)
A hand used to hold a weapon can't be used to perform somatic components. This still applies if it's a reliquary weapon. Quick draw and weapon cords don't change that.
If you have a sword dangling from a weapon cord you can use that hand to perform somatic components but the sword can't be retrieved using quick draw. If the sword's a reliquary weapon it probably does work for use as a divine focus still then.
I'm talking only about shield + reliquary weapon now. A hand is NOT holding anything while you START casting a spell, and than with a quick draw you dra your weapon to porvide divine focus AND decide to KEEP it in hand. Than, for example, next round you drop your weapon on cord, START casting a spell with FREE hand, and AS PART OF CASTING (with a move action, for example) provide a divine focus in such way.
The second round situation is much more debetable, because of "providing as part" as a move action, but first seems to be absolutely legal.
You need to provide components for the entire time of casting a spell. When the sword is in hand you can't perform somatic components; when it isn't, you don't have a divine focus. If the spell requires both your first scheme doesn't work - it doesn't matter when you perform the quick draw.
So, as you say, you need TWO hands free> one for fouc and one for somatic component?
One hand unless you've decided to use a weapon as your divine focus. A holy symbol can be held in the hand you use for somatic components, a weapon can't.