How would a government respond to the resurrection of a dead evil god within their borders?


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion


In my campaign, enemies are spreading rumors that the party is resurrecting a dead evil god using a dangerous artifact. The rumors do not go completely unfounded. The party does seek to bring back an eldritch god-like spirit and they do possess a dangerous artifact, hoping that the spirit's quest will earn them a powerful ally. When the enemy accuses them of these misdeeds, the party jokingly doesn't deny it.

The question is, how would a government (like Andoran) respond to these rumors within their borders? Would the government dismiss them? Would they arrest the party? How'd they do it when the party is well known to have great power (14th level)? Would the government respond if the weather changes and omnious eldritch events begin occurring around the major cities, centered on the party's home town?


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Um, they would probably INVESTIGATE it.

Dark Archive

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alexd1976 wrote:
Um, they would probably INVESTIGATE it.

With extreme prejudice.


If you want the BBEG to be able to besmirch the reputation of the PC party with no difficulties, that's your choice as GM, but likely the government would at the very least have someone cast a spell or two to ask some questions about it...

Maybe send an envoy to talk to the PCs... If they just take the bad guys word at face value, no questions asked... Then I wonder how this kingdom survived in the first place.


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Personally, I'd think that if the party is particularly powerful, the government will probably send an agent to investigate the party, to determine themselves if the rumors have any validity.
However you play it, I'd recommend you have things escalate slowly, the government likely won't arrest anyone on rumors alone, but they likely won't completely blow it off either if the players are known to be powerful. If strange things keep happening around the party and investigation actually turns up proof that the players are up to something, then the government would probably take action.
Now personally, assuming that your setting has adventurers in it, the government's most likely attempt to take the party could well involve hiring another similarly powered party for the job, whilst also putting the word out that the party are fugitives. Even if other adventurers aren't really a thing, it wouldn't be unreasonable for a large government to have a group of elite warriors or mages whose job is to take down high powered threats, balanced by having relatively low numbers compared to the standing army.


The investigation would definitely show that something is up, though the party is fairly charismatic.


Garrick Williams wrote:
The question is, how would a government (like Andoran) respond to these rumors within their borders? Would the government dismiss them? Would they arrest the party? How'd they do it when the party is well known to have great power (14th level)?

Well, I guess they would hire someone with also great power. And if circumstances start to become dire, they would attempt dangerous alliances to stop the party. Given the struggle with Cheliax, they wouldn't summon a devil, but there are other powerful outsiders out there. For instance, a daemon would like to gather the souls of some high-level adventurers.

An alternative would be to send the army. Thousand level 1 warriors can be a threat to a level 14 party, depending on how both sides act.

Finally, religious zealots could form a taskforce to make sure their god doesn't get any further competition. Their leader being an inquisitor feels perfect here.


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Do the PCs live in a world where baseless accusations are treated as truth?

Do Paladins exist?

Do you hate your players?

Are they, in fact, evil?

Unless they are actually DOING wrong, I don't advise punishing them for false accusations.

An effective government is effective... they would easily be able to figure out if what the party was doing was raising an evil god or not.

Unless you arbitrarily state that magic stops working, because... reasons.

up to you.


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SheepishEidolon wrote:

Well, I guess they would hire someone with also great power. And if circumstances start to become dire, they would attempt dangerous alliances to stop the party. Given the struggle with Cheliax, they wouldn't summon a devil, but there are other powerful outsiders out there. For instance, a daemon would like to gather the souls of some high-level adventurers.

An alternative would be to send the army. Thousand level 1 warriors can be a threat to a level 14 party, depending on how both sides act.

Finally, religious zealots could form a taskforce to make sure their god doesn't get any further competition. Their leader being an inquisitor feels perfect here.

Don't forget, if the government truly thinks the players are resurrecting an evil god, they could very well summon celestials, who'd naturally have a very vested interest in stopping an evil god from being reborn. Heck if the players prove particularly tenacious, you could probably justify siccing some advanced zelekhuts on them.

Alexd1976 has a point that none of this should be done on baseless rumour, so the government would likely need to have solid evidence, real or fabricated before they act. Though to play devil's advocate here, even just proof that the players intend to resurrect some strange eldritch entity would probably be cause for concern, particularly if they don't know the entity's intentions.


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Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Garrick Williams wrote:
How would a government respond to the resurrection of a dead evil god within their borders?

They would TAX them pesky adventurers. Isn't that how governments typically react?

Or, if they are of great power, the local king, duke or baron might just very tactfully and politely request the adventurers take their resurected dead evil god and sic it on the next kingdom over.


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Those are some good suggestions. I like the idea of the government calling a celestial.

And no, I definitely do not want to flatout screw over the party. I want to present a challenging/intriguing scenario that the party will have to maneuver and could potentially twist into their favor. To do so, I need to get a good idea what the government of their home nation might do. The party has a good relationship with the governor of their hometown, but the enemy might have a few federal government officials in their pocket.

An investigation will surely show that the party is meddling with something dangerous. The party means well, but even they aren't entirely sure of the dead god's alignment. The god's remnants seem enigmatic but somewhat benign -- at least to the party. She even occasionally grants the party gifts, such as a reflavored Aviary of Spirits, when the party does something that pleases her. The god definitely stinks of bad juju as a piece of her spirit possessing the magus's blackblade occasionally steals the soul of a slain evil enemy. The party believes the god wants to become resurrected onto the Material Plane and get revenge on those that killed her and her followers decades ago.

A government paladin might be an interesting idea. The party hasn't encountered one yet despite this campaign lasting years. The paladins in my campaign are generally not Lawful Stupid and an experienced paladin knows that getting an accurate alignment reading takes some skill and patience.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Garrick Williams wrote:

In my campaign, enemies are spreading rumors that the party is resurrecting a dead evil god using a dangerous artifact. The rumors do not go completely unfounded. The party does seek to bring back an eldritch god-like spirit and they do possess a dangerous artifact, hoping that the spirit's quest will earn them a powerful ally. When the enemy accuses them of these misdeeds, the party jokingly doesn't deny it.

The question is, how would a government (like Andoran) respond to these rumors within their borders? Would the government dismiss them? Would they arrest the party? How'd they do it when the party is well known to have great power (14th level)? Would the government respond if the weather changes and omnious eldritch events begin occurring around the major cities, centered on the party's home town?

It all depends. Since they haven't yet raised the evil diety it depends on what kind of evidence is actually about, who calls Chicken Litle, and how much credibility they have vs the party itself.

I assume you are the GM, and the party in question is your players.

The answer is.. you decide out how you want things to happen and rationalize it appropriately.

Do you want your party to be attacked by someone looking to stop them? If so, all you need to do is decide who is going to challenge their activities, and backfit them appropriately into the story.


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They'd complain about the public healthcare plan and threaten to shut the government down.


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This very much depends on the nature of the government. Even well developed governments could have drastically different reactions. An autocratic government would likely deal with this in a heavy-handed way (think USSR, etc). A government that upholds due process would likely, as has been suggested, investigate the matter, collect facts, build a case. A theocracy, especially a good-aligned one, could react any number of ways depending on the zealotry of the populace and/or leaders and their approach to due process. I would not automatically assume that governments are rational entities. The list goes on.

Key factors in my eyes:

- Due process (yes, no, maybe?)
- Religious devotion/zealotry (how much, how little?)
- Available resources (tribe versus freaking uber-country)
- Militarism (how heavy handed with the swords and bows?)
- Intelligence (every government needs eyes and ears; who are they?)
- Attitude towards magic (bad juju or the coolest thing?)

Others are probably applicable as well. I would also keep in mind the closeness of the connection between a given religious group and the government, since they may be able to heavily influence the actions of each other if they share power, or may even be enemies. What happens if a church of Iomadae finds out about this? Can they comfortably report this, or do they send in their own gals and guys?

This kind of stuff seems right up the inquisitor's dark, brooding alley.


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"Well, I for one, welcome our new evil overlord. I would like to remind him that as a trusted king of these people, I can be helpful for rounding up others to toil in his underground blood caves"


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And some countries like Rahadoum, Bachuan, or Touvette (all anti-religion) or Razmiran (Razmir doesn't like the competition), or Mendev (yikes! -- the Demons are going to break loose again!), or Galt (just because) expect a swift and merciless raid, insquisition, and execution.


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They're in Andoran, so probably everything done by committee and then handled off to a division that handles the affairs?

Having a god reborn in Andoran borders kind of adds an interesting wrinkle to their religious tolerance policy. I can see that the god's moral ambiguity might cause people to feel divided in whether to stop or allow the resurrection. On one hand, they risk an evil god getting reborn. On the other hand, they risk grossly violating one of their society's most valued tenets in a historical way.

Scarab Sages

I have something similar going on, the party is tracking down pieces of an artifact they wish to assemble, but the other parties involved are secret organizations, like the Whispering Way, Old Cults, etc, who want the artifact for themselves, to unleash their own avatars on Avistan.

None of these would dare spread rumours to a government, because that is just more competition. Competent government leaders, especially of a government like Andoran, may just investigate and go on their way. But most other governments would want to confiscate the artifact and use it themselves. Powerful people want more power.

So ... you can certainly do a lot without involving governments, which may be too much power against the party. Secret societies work since they cannot act out in the open.

Scarab Sages

This sounds like an opportunity to build a really cool inquisitor NPC with an interesting backstory and a few neat tricks, give him some political resources and a suitably heightened sense of paranoia, turn him/her loose and see what happens.

Better yet, find another player to bring this character in as a PC! :)


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As i am currently in a RP-heavy Kingmaker-Campaign (LN Kingdom) i can easily see how our group would react:

A group of significant power and with high-level casters potentially doing some tinkering with Eldritch Gods stuff? Thats not the case for 08/15 investigators or the local city guard. Thats the stuff the inner council deals with.

1. Investigate them. Politely. Through all the usual official government methods.

2. Investigate them thrugh the Spymaster's Spy network and less official channels.

3. Use different Divination spells on them, short on directly scrying them out. Because thats a direct breech of privacy, and without proove you dont start antagonizing powerful people.

4. After preliminary investigations invite them in to refute these accusations personally. Politely. Give them a chance to speak for themselfs. To see the other side, instead of just rumors and some easy to find out stuff. Oh, and they will be splitup, each into a normal, but seperate questioning rooms. Never let them be together, so if the rumors should indeed be true, you dont have them start a fight at full battlepower if their evil plot in revealed.

-

"Would the government respond if the weather changes and omnious eldritch events begin occurring around the major cities, centered on the party's home town?"

React? React?

Thats a time for getting the Elite Division of the Army out of Garrison duty (That is seriously expensive, so the Nobles who have to pay for this are gonna be pissed) and "holding maneuvers" in the homecity of this group.

As a Plan C for the Plan B "Kingdom Special Forces in Uniform raid them SWAT-Style and confiscat the Artifact before they open up a Planar Rift that will let in armies of Eldritch Abominations that will Kill Us All!"

Plan A: "High Level government official (but not as high as being hard to finding an ersatz for, The local Mayor for example, or a Colonel army) personally and in full livery delivers the paraphrased message that they need to submit to an immediate and full official government investigation. Right now. This is dead serious. And if he is not back in 5min after entering, unharmed and unenchanted, it will be considered a hostile act, as any non-compliance with the investigation."

Plan B and C trigger simultaneously 7min after the Mayor/Colonel enters their residence / meets with them and hasnt properly returned with their full cooperation.


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I think it depends on the level/notoriety of the party (sorry level 2 dudes, but you are still too bush league), recent current events (last month a cult successfully birthed another spawn of Rovagug), the nature/personality of the government (Oh you didn't mention they were foreigners, of course they are planning to do something like that), and the likelihood of corruption (how many bag of gold do you said they had?).

The important thing is that the government isn't going to send their biggest bad agent to every little thing, so the first encounter shouldn't be a big fight, but if one breaks out, the second encounter will be an attempt to intimidate the party with as much overwhelming force as the government can spare. You are going from dealing with the beat cop to the SWAT team. If the party has made the gov look weak the first two encounters, round three will involve the army or the king's personal throat cutter.


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You could have the government confiscate the dangerous artifact to add a wrinkle in the story. They have to figure out how to get it back, either by stealing it, bribing it back, or by convincing the local magistrate that they mean no harm, give details of what they are trying to do or lie about it I guess.

Perhaps that will help the players realize that what they are doing isn't something that should be discussed in open with the local bar maids. and they need to use a little more discretion in their adventures.

I like the idea of removing the artifact to give them a road block, and it would work out to be very realistic without being long term devastating to the campaign.


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Been there, done that. Dick Cheney was Vice President for 8 years.


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Of course, the government doesn't necessarily have to take the artifact by force. They could steal it instead.

In any case, after the government agents get their hands on it, they may end up putting it in a crate in a warehouse containing about 20000 crates of the same general appearance (with many of them radiating the same general type of magic, often from purposely applied Magic Aura), of which the labels have fallen off a lot of them and/or are written in a code that the master ledger for has been lost.


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Perhaps one more thing to consider. Even if it's proven that the deity isn't actually evil, that doesn't necessarily mean the government will want one just exploding out of their borders. After all, the tarrasque is neutral, but if someone was trying to wake it up in my back garden I'd be upset.

The Exchange

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Typically the government responds by sending someone in a hooded cloak to sit in the corner of an out of the way tavern until a party of disreputable strangers arrive and can be hired to look into it for them.


Rhelous wrote:
Perhaps one more thing to consider. Even if it's proven that the deity isn't actually evil, that doesn't necessarily mean the government will want one just exploding out of their borders. After all, the tarrasque is neutral, but if someone was trying to wake it up in my back garden I'd be upset.

This is, I think, a very good point. A couple of things to consider, though:

1) The Tarrasque is now ret-conned as "chaotic evil" in Golarion (this is tangential to your point, but I thought you'd like to know), due to being sentient, eating other sentient folk without bounds, and being spawn of Rovagug

2) A government - even an autocratic or monolithic one, which Andoran's is not - may have varying responses based on time, date, specific people who are involved directly or indirectly, and any ideas they can come up with to exploit either the people or the so-called deity

It could be quite interesting and significant to the government.


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Tacticslion wrote:

This is, I think, a very good point. A couple of things to consider, though:

1) The Tarrasque is now ret-conned as "chaotic evil" in Golarion (this is tangential to your point, but I thought you'd like to know), due to being sentient, eating other sentient folk without bounds, and being spawn of Rovagug

2) A government - even an autocratic or monolithic one, which Andoran's is not - may have varying responses based on time, date, specific people who are involved directly or indirectly, and any ideas they can come up with to exploit either the people or the so-called deity

It could be quite interesting and significant to the government.

Ah, right, just noticed the alignment change on the srd, I'm admittedly not up to date on a lot of golarion-specific stuff.

It does go without saying that an ancient dead god on their turf would be very significant to any government, but you have raised the idea of maybe some factions wanting the god to awaken.
Course, naturally any factions that want the god to awaken are probably planning something unsavory like throwing it at the kingdom next door or something that'll make the players nervous about accepting their help, assuming of course we're not going full-on cult.


Rhelous wrote:

Ah, right, just noticed the alignment change on the srd, I'm admittedly not up to date on a lot of golarion-specific stuff.

It does go without saying that an ancient dead god on their turf would be very significant to any government, but you have raised the idea of maybe some factions wanting the god to awaken.

No worries. Sometimes I am myself. I mention to inform, not shame. :D

Rhelous wrote:
Course, naturally any factions that want the god to awaken are probably planning something unsavory like throwing it at the kingdom next door or something that'll make the players nervous about accepting their help, assuming of course we're not going full-on cult.

Exactly!

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Tacticslion wrote:


2) A government - even an autocratic or monolithic one, which Andoran's is not -

We're working on that!

-Rising Ogliarchy of Andoran.


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I just thought of something else. Zealots of other dead gods might come knocking at the party's door...or busting it down and taking the artifact for themselves.


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Garrick Williams wrote:
I just thought of something else. Zealots of other dead gods might come knocking at the party's door...or busting it down and taking the artifact for themselves.

One of the interesting things is that, depending on alignment, knowledge, skill, and insight; those groups might do exactly that, whether or not the artifact would work for their god, whether or not they know.

Some certainly would not.

Some, however...

And there might even be internecine strife, between factions remaining loyal to the dead gods in question.

Folk trying to raise Aroden or Arazni.

Folk trying to raise ancient Azlanti gods, or even Lissala.

Folk trying to raise Zyphus back to "life".

Folk trying to raise one (or more!) of the Failed.

Razmiran devout - or the devout of any other creature ranging from celestial to fiend - trying to get a godly artifact to give more power (either direct or bargaining) to their own "god".

Folk trying to prevent resurrection of another god, because theirs can't be raised.

Folk trying to prevent those trying to prevent the resurrection in hopes that either the resurrected god resurrects their god, or in the other being raised that their god might be as well, or just that it's not right for their own to prevent other religions successes where theirs failed.

So much juiciness.

And all of those are examples of why Andoran will treat this seriously, but carefully... and really, really try to keep this quiet to make sure the country doesn't become a religious battle ground. No one wants another Rahadoum.


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Lissala is not dead.


xavier c wrote:
Lissala is not dead.

Naturally, and good point. But not everyone knows that. Hence, though I knew, I listed those that would try to raise her with the other crazy folk trying to raise "Azlanti gods" (some of which are still alive and kicking, but not obviously so).

Interesting reading for those who care.


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LazarX wrote:
Tacticslion wrote:


2) A government - even an autocratic or monolithic one, which Andoran's is not -

We're working on that!

-Rising Ogliarchy of Andoran.

Oh come on, you folks have got to come up with a more marketing-oriented name for yourselves Like for instance, the Patrician Overseeing Operations of Procurement.

Garrick Williams wrote:
I just thought of something else. Zealots of other dead gods might come knocking at the party's door...or busting it down and taking the artifact for themselves.

Potentially, said Zealots might even be in the government.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I would guess they would respond poorly.


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Actually, given more than one example in Babylon 5 (thread), if you found the right people in government and put it to them the right way, they might respond quite favorably.

Scarab Sages

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Most gouvernments would probably be aware that the resurection of a deity goes far beyond their reach and abilities. Even if they are investigating the rumors, they would probably.
- involve any powerful wizard know to be a friend of the nation.
- involve legal churches
- involve adventurers known to be friends of the nation
They might not give them free pass, but they will probably listen to them and have a certain amount of faith in them doing their own investigations. If the governments or the involved allies investigations do seem to confirm those rumors, the PCs would probably become outlaws, actively hunted by bountyhunters, adventurers, inquisitors and other religious agents, hellknights and possibly hired Red Mantis assassins, depending on how public the gouvernment wants to make the perceived thread.


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Keep in mind that investigations on this level would almost certainly include a commune spell, perhaps asking Andoran's patron deity, so the government (any government, really) has the means to know exactly what's going on.

If they think to ask the right questions, of course.


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They would react how any decent Golorian government would: send a party of adventurers to investigate!


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So many good suggestions!

Okay, here's what's going on now.

1. I decided that in the past few months, the Andoran government has silently sent agents to investigate the validity of the rumors. Initial investigations and preliminary research into the god definitely raises some alarm, so the government has dispatched an adventuring party to look into the matters more closely.

2. The hired mercenaries have done work for the government in the past and also know the PC party very well. Though now allies, the mercenaries came to blows with the party over misunderstandings in the past and want to avoid that happening again above all else. They couldn't get much information from the party about the god resurrection. However, from casual conversation, they learned that the party procured the dangerous artifacts for all the right reasons and did so to prevent an enemy from getting them. The mercenaries now trust the party and genuinely believe they mean no harm, even if they seem to be playing with something very dangerous.

3. In the last session, an ominous storm began to loom over the party's home town and create lightning of negative energy. The mercenaries revealed to the party that these storms have been happening throughout the nation and always seemed to flow to this location. The lightning in this particular storm has caused the dead to rise from the grave and chant that they wish to bare witness to the dead god's return. Mainwhile, undead giants wade through the sea towards the town and eldritch planar creatures stalk the streets, killing villagers. The party is now trying to save as many lives as possible.

I think at this point, the government would bring out the hardcore divination magic and take serious action. Though, uses of the commune spell to inquiry about the god would likely divide opinions even further.

Grand Lodge

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Catch 22 of this system:

1. If the government does not conduct a proper investigation and seeks to punish the players without due process...

2. The government is therefore evil aligned and should therefore...

3. Be glad the players are bringing more evil into the world...

4. And not punish them.

Alternatively:

1. If the government is good aligned it will conduct a proper investigation to ensure the players are not summoning evil gods...

2. It should find them innocent...

3. And not punish them.


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Ms. Pleiades wrote:

Catch 22 of this system:

1. If the government does not conduct a proper investigation and seeks to punish the players without due process...

2. The government is therefore evil aligned and should therefore...

3. Be glad the players are bringing more evil into the world...

4. And not punish them.

Alternatively:

1. If the government is good aligned it will conduct a proper investigation to ensure the players are not summoning evil gods...

2. It should find them innocent...

3. And not punish them.

Points 3 and 4 from first scenario: Well, keep in mind that Evil isn't necessarily monolithic in nature (YMMV). The Evil that might be rising might be an Evil that is going to compete directly with my Evil guys and try and steal our lunch. So, in that case, punishment IS warranted.

Depending on just how bad the thing being summoned might be, you might find a coalition of sorts between good and evil looking to shutdown the plot.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

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I think the players have played well enough that the government will likely not arrest them. However, the government might take the artifact away and prohibit them from resurrecting the god, which is something the party would not like.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Ms. Pleiades wrote:

Catch 22 of this system:

1. If the government does not conduct a proper investigation and seeks to punish the players without due process...

The requirement for "due process" is like many player assumptions, a modern invention. Barons, Rulers, and Kings, could (and frequently did) confine, punish, and executed people solely on whim. Before Christanity and Islam became things, it was typical of rulers such as Roman Emperors, Pharoahs, and such to style themselves as dieties incarnate.

When Christanity made that approach unacceptable, rulers would instead refer to themselves as God's Vassal to justify their decrees.

Now if the person was noble or popular, some show trial may be held before the sentence was carried out.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

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The party actually made themselves out to be quite heroic in the face of all the eldritch events, the dead rising from the grave crying out that they await the resurrection of their glorious master. But now the government has sent their best soldiers to escort the party to the capital and make their case why the government should allow them to resurrect the dead god.


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Elect it to be president


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Garrick Williams wrote:

In my campaign, enemies are spreading rumors that the party is resurrecting a dead evil god using a dangerous artifact. The rumors do not go completely unfounded. The party does seek to bring back an eldritch god-like spirit and they do possess a dangerous artifact, hoping that the spirit's quest will earn them a powerful ally. When the enemy accuses them of these misdeeds, the party jokingly doesn't deny it.

The question is, how would a government (like Andoran) respond to these rumors within their borders? Would the government dismiss them? Would they arrest the party? How'd they do it when the party is well known to have great power (14th level)? Would the government respond if the weather changes and omnious eldritch events begin occurring around the major cities, centered on the party's home town?

I would think, depending on the timetable of this resurrection, and the foundation of how they hear on the rumors, the response could vary wildly.

A strong/well trusted rumor source, and no time to investigate would indicate an incoming strike team to stop it imo.

Most other factors, would tend towards an investigation. This could be on two fronts, the first could be a "formal inquiry" style.. A government agent shows up and starts asking questions.

Meanwhile a secondary investigation starts.. one using secrecy/behind the scenes to uncover facts the first wouldn't.

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