And the AP is balanced to run on those assumptions. You can complete the AP without crafting or running home into town, assuming the party composition is balanced.Unfortunately, Carrion Crown has the PC's on the clock for most of it. You don't even really get breaks in between adventures. Worse, you are far away from most actual large cities, so no buying gear either.
Yeah, in this case I usually tell the players at initial character creation that this is not a good campaign for crafting skills and feats so make sure they don't plan one.
And if someone gets the idea mid-campaign, I try to talk them out of it. Which always works when I tell them that if they take the feat, I won't add time to allow them to use it, and therefore their feat might (will) cause them to fail at the story line (or they won't get any use out of it).
This game got along just fine for decades without characters stopping the adventuring for weeks or even months at a time to craft magic items, it's definitely not needed now.
But when I'm sandboxing or homebrewing, if a player wants these feats I let them take them and make time in the story for their use.
DM Blake, you definitely seem like a party pooper. I tend to stick to the rules, except when they make the game less fun.
I allowed this scheme to craft at double speed whilst adventuring because, quite simply, it allows the player to have some fun. He's never played a wizard in a long campaign before, and I didn't want to deny him the chance to explore the role. Plus, the party is routinely given unusable treasure in the AP, so they normally sell it. Combine that with a lack of cities to commission/buy magic items, and a lack of time to craft them with, and you see the problem.
Again, the DM's Rule of Fun. I believe it makes a lot of sense to allow it. Too bad you don't, at least in the case of AP's on the clock (which seems to be most of them).
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You can only craft for 8 hours a day. The party rests for 10 hours a day, taking turns at watch, with the exception of the Wizard. Since Wizard rests for only 2 hours a day, he can spend his downtime crafting for 8 hours, and still get to adventure with the rest of the party. Simple math.
Now, since the Wizard will be getting an Improved Familiar (a pseudodragon) with the Valet archetype, he will be able to craft magic items at double the normal rate. That means 2 days worth of crafting in a single day, and STILL be able to adventure with the other PC's.
You still need 8 hours of rest to get your spells back. And you can't cast spells or use skills during that time. You can't use the extra time you gain from the ring to craft.
Rest: To prepare his daily spells, a wizard must first sleep for 8 hours. The wizard does not have to slumber for every minute of the time, but he must refrain from movement, combat, spellcasting, skill use, conversation, or any other fairly demanding physical or mental task during the rest period. If his rest is interrupted, each interruption adds 1 hour to the total amount of time he has to rest in order to clear his mind, and he must have at least 1 hour of uninterrupted rest immediately prior to preparing his spells. If the character does not need to sleep for some reason, he still must have 8 hours of restful calm before preparing any spells.Even if you could use that time, your efforts are still halved, as crafting while adventuring only nets you half the actual time spent crafting.
Actually you are wrong , the issue is that you didnt look at the ring he said the PC has:
This ring continually provides its wearer with life-sustaining nourishment. The ring also refreshes the body and mind; its wearer needs only sleep 2 hours per day to gain the benefit of 8 hours of sleep. This allows a spellcaster that requires rest to prepare spells to do so after only 2 hours, but this does not allow a spellcaster to prepare spells more than once per day. The ring must be worn for a full week before it begins to work. If it is removed, the owner must wear it for another week to reattune it to himself.
So yeap , he is done in 3 hours.
Actually you are wrong , the issue is that you didnt look at the ring he said the PC has:
Actually, I did look at the ring. I just don't play Pathfinder, and had forgotten it changed from 3.5.
He still nets only half the actual time spend making the magic item while adventuring, however. So even with enough bonuses to double the crafting done per day, while adventuring you are still only getting a normal days worth of crafting done per day.
Actually you are wrong , the issue is that you didnt look at the ring he said the PC has:Actually, I did look at the ring. I just don't play Pathfinder, and had forgotten it changed from 3.5.
He still nets only half the actual time spend making the magic item while adventuring, however.
Well yeah , this is true.
But if we keep in mind the valet , then he would still keep the normal speed in the end i guess.
Actually, I did look at the ring. I just don't play Pathfinder, and had forgotten it changed from 3.5.
Wait, I'm confused. If you don't play Pathfinder, then why are you here?
DM Blake, you definitely seem like a party pooper. I tend to stick to the rules, except when they make the game less fun.
I allowed this scheme to craft at double speed whilst adventuring because, quite simply, it allows the player to have some fun. He's never played a wizard in a long campaign before, and I didn't want to deny him the chance to explore the role. Plus, the party is routinely given unusable treasure in the AP, so they normally sell it. Combine that with a lack of cities to commission/buy magic items, and a lack of time to craft them with, and you see the problem.
Again, the DM's Rule of Fun. I believe it makes a lot of sense to allow it. Too bad you don't, at least in the case of AP's on the clock (which seems to be most of them).
Party pooper?
Maybe.
As I see it, there are two parties happening simultaneously.
One party is where the fun and crazy frat boys come into the game, guzzle copious alcohol and do crazy stuff for an hour, then leave again to crash and sleep it off. The other party is the all-day and all-night party with dancing, food, fun, and games, where people come in and stay til the end and have fun the whole time.
Both parties are happening in the same room. Those frat boys really have tons of fun and then crash and burn. While they're still conscious and wild, their part of the party is fun and lively, but they can ruin it for the guys and gals in that other party. When they all pass out or leave, the people there in the all-day party are often glad they're gone so they can get back to enjoying their own party.
Pathfinder is like that.
The "Rule of Fun" can make for a lot of fun right now. But it isn't always ideal for having a 2-year campaign where every player has fun and contributes consistently.
Little nit-picky crap like this, no biggie, I'll just answer it the way I think the rules should work. This is a "Rules Questions" forum, right? In my home game, I'd probably look at that crappy wolf and ask the player if they really want to handicap their feat so much, and if he says yes, I'd give him the loot too, even though I don't believe that's what the rules support.
Over bigger, serious stuff, I'll definitely pick the ruling that preserves the long game, the two year campaign and maximizes the enjoyment for all the players for all the campaign - even if that makes one player briefly sad over a ruling he doesn't agree with, and especially if that ruling prevented a game-breaking power imbalance that might have derailed two years worth of fun.
If that's party-pooping, then I guess that's what I do.
Even if you could use that time, your efforts are still halved, as crafting while adventuring only nets you half the actual time spent crafting.
Please cite your source.
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If the caster is out adventuring, he can devote 4 hours each day to item creation, although he nets only 2 hours' worth of work. This time is not spent in one continuous period, but rather during lunch, morning preparation, and during watches at night. If time is dedicated to creation, it must be spent in uninterrupted 4-hour blocks. This work is generally done in a controlled environment, where distractions are at a minimum, such as a laboratory or shrine. Work that is performed in a distracting or dangerous environment nets only half the amount of progress (just as with the adventuring caster).
Wait, I'm confused. If you don't play Pathfinder, then why are you here?
Actually, I did look at the ring. I just don't play Pathfinder, and had forgotten it changed from 3.5.
Because I want to be? Because there is no real good 3.5 forum? Because Pathfinder is close enough to 3.5 I can steal from it what I like?
Please cite your source.
Joana did it for me. While you are adventuring is not really a suitable time to craft magic items.
They aren't normal winter wolves, and Irrisen isn't a normal situation. Your average winter wolf isn't that much different than a normal wolf. It can't walk into town with a money bag in it's mouth and demand armor to be made. Even more importantly even if it could come on such armor it can't put it on. (that no-hands thing getting in the way)
Maybe not a regular town, but seeing as how winter wolves often ally with frost giants, they can get stuff made for them.
Putting the armor on would still bean issue, but there very well are options for the winter wolf to acquire it in the first place.
"If the caster is out adventuring, he can devote 4 hours each day to item creation, although he nets only 2 hours' worth of work. This time is not spent in one continuous period, but rather during lunch, morning preparation, and during watches at night. If time is dedicated to creation, it must be spent in uninterrupted 4-hour blocks. This work is generally done in a controlled environment, where distractions are at a minimum, such as a laboratory or shrine. Work that is performed in a distracting or dangerous environment nets only half the amount of progress (just as with the adventuring caster)."
1. This caster will be able to devote 8 hours a day to crafting, not 4, and still be able to adventure.
2. This time spent crafting will occur in one long burst, just like it would normally without adventuring.
So, the only thing standing between the Wizard and crafting at double speed is the environment? Well, that can easily be fixed.
What about equipping a Portable Hole with a laboratory?
"If the caster is out adventuring, he can devote 4 hours each day to item creation, although he nets only 2 hours' worth of work. This time is not spent in one continuous period, but rather during lunch, morning preparation, and during watches at night. If time is dedicated to creation, it must be spent in uninterrupted 4-hour blocks. This work is generally done in a controlled environment, where distractions are at a minimum, such as a laboratory or shrine. Work that is performed in a distracting or dangerous environment nets only half the amount of progress (just as with the adventuring caster)."
1. This caster will be able to devote 8 hours a day to crafting, not 4, and still be able to adventure.
2. This time spent crafting will occur in one long burst, just like it would normally without adventuring.
So, the only thing standing between the Wizard and crafting at double speed is the environment? Well, that can easily be fixed.
What about equipping a Portable Hole with a laboratory?
The thing is , it isnt really so much about having a laboratory or not , for example , there is no rule saying you need one to begin with Any place suitable for preparing spells is suitable for making items. , while having MW tools for this would grant you a +2 bonus.
You are right , if you only need 2 hours of sleep , it isnt hard to imagine you could fit 8 hours of crafting.
But per rules , when you are out you only get 4 hours , that is about it.
But per rules , when you are out you only get 4 hours , that is about it.
That's just silly. I refuse to accept this. The crafter can easily get in 8 hours at a stretch and still have time to adventure, given the properties of the Ring of Sustenance.
That's just silly. I refuse to accept this. The crafter can easily get in 8 hours at a stretch and still have time to adventure, given the properties of the Ring of Sustenance.
But per rules , when you are out you only get 4 hours , that is about it.
He is working for 8 hours that day. But he only gets 4 hours of effort out of it.
Only indirectly. The Leadership feat gives you two options.. a normal classed cohort with NPC gear/wbl OR a magical beast. The second option is not magical beast and stuff.I would look at it this way:
When you encounter a CR 9 NPC, does he have wealth? Yes. Does he use it as part of the encounter? Yes (he wears armor, swings a sword, wears a magical ring, etc.). This means the wealth is an expected part of the challenge of fighting this NPC.
In other words, if you have the NPC use the items in his "treasure hoard" then you are doing what is expected for the NPC's CR.
When you encounter a CR 9 wolf, does it have wealth? Maybe, but we'll assume yes for this example. Does it use it as part of the encounter? No. This means the wealth is NOT an expected part of the challenge of fighting this NPC.
In other words, if you have the wolf use the items in its "treasure hoard" you are INCREASING the difficulty of this encounter and should probably increase the CR.
Applying that logic to cohorts should work the same way:
Get an NPC, he comes with gear because it's part of his CR. Get an animal, even one with INT 9, it comes with no gear because gear is not part of the animal's CR - if you get an animal WITH gear then that should raise its CR.
So I would say no gear (wealth) for this winter wolf.
Logical.
I understand your point...
Is there anything mechanical/crunchy addressing this?
Just read over Leadership again, don't see any mention of gear one way or the other, what are you basing this on?
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I would say you multiply the special material cost by the WEIGHT multiplier...Wait I never thought about this closely... sigh, this doesn't make sense. Why do they go out of their way seemingly to break math?
Weighing only twice as much despite being twice as long in every dimension on average would mean that larger armor is half as thick at any given point than medium armor, and should have half the AC bonus logically.
Grr. Anyway, not relevant to rules, just annoying. Especially since they DO correctly write "1/4 weight" for other equipment like backpacks for one size down. ??? So they figured it out already, but then ignored it elsewhere?
How much should it weight? Like eight times more?
*shrugs* I don't sweat stuff like this most of the time, it doesn't really affect game balance as much as, say, permissive use of Charm Person, or Wish spells.
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But per rules , when you are out you only get 4 hours , that is about it.That's just silly. I refuse to accept this. The crafter can easily get in 8 hours at a stretch and still have time to adventure, given the properties of the Ring of Sustenance.
As GM, you're free to rule any way that works for your game. But if you ask a question in the Rules Questions forum, you're only going to get an answer according to the rules. If you're interested in changing the rules, you should ask for input on your ideas in the Suggestions/House Rules/Homebrew forum.