Daring Champion Clarification


Rules Questions


If a Daring Champion (Cavalier), level 4, picked up one level in Inspired Blade (Swashbuckler), then how you treat the Panache class feature?

I would assume you wouldn't get 2xCHA mod. But you would get INT added to your pool, I'd think. If the Daring Champion had Slashing Grace, his Champion's Finesse ability would still function, but would he lose the ability to regain panache on anything other than rapier crits? Or would the Daring Champion's panache allow him to still regain as normal?

Would the two classes stack for Precise Strike?

Mostly, I'd like to get a bit more Panache, and I really want the "Opportune Parry and Riposte" gig. Maybe there's an easier way than dipping through these questions, but I don't know it.


I'd assume Daring Champion levels count as Swashbuckler levels for the purposes of deeds. Otherwise, the class is suddenly broken (no bonus damage from precise strike)

As for stacking, if Daring Champion levels count as Swashbuckler levels for the purposes of deeds, they should probably stack, though I could see an argument made that they can't stack (Based on how Channel stacks).


Also, a Daring Champion loses his Mount class feature. If he got the Animal Ally feat to get a horse with the Charger archetype, the horse would get the Mounted Challenge feature, still. Right? I mean, it seems so by RAW, and it may not even be worth it, but I'm just weighing options. I haven't really looked much into Cavaliers until recently.


The classes don't stack, you treat them separately for levels, but you only have the one panache pool.


Mechanical Pear wrote:

If a Daring Champion (Cavalier), level 4, picked up one level in Inspired Blade (Swashbuckler), then how you treat the Panache class feature?

I would assume you wouldn't get 2xCHA mod. But you would get INT added to your pool, I'd think. If the Daring Champion had Slashing Grace, his Champion's Finesse ability would still function, but would he lose the ability to regain panache on anything other than rapier crits? Or would the Daring Champion's panache allow him to still regain as normal?

Would the two classes stack for Precise Strike?

Mostly, I'd like to get a bit more Panache, and I really want the "Opportune Parry and Riposte" gig. Maybe there's an easier way than dipping through these questions, but I don't know it.

Panache and Deeds wrote:
At 4th level, a daring champion gains the swashbuckler's panache class feature

Read this FAQ.

From the text, you already possess the Swashbuckler's panache class feature once you hit 4th level Daring Champion. However, since it is the base class feature, I don't see why it would not stack with the Inspired Blade dip. This obviously means you don't double your Panache (based upon this FAQ interpretation here), nor do you add any based upon your level (though you do count as a 5th level Swashbuckler for the purposes of the Panache feature). This would not stack for Deed selection, since you only gain the Panache feature from Daring Champion, and not the Deeds feature (just a select few Deeds), but you would count as a 5th level Swashbuckler for the effects of the Deeds you possess, given the intent of Daring Champions receiving Precise Strike (even though by RAW, they would not receive any bonus damage for it, since it's based on Swashbuckler level). In other words, think of Spellcasters dipping a level or 2 in another class, but making up their lost caster levels with subjects like Magical Knack.

Remember, since you are altering the standard Panache feature via the Archetype, you would not gain Panache from killing blows once you take the Inspired Blade archetype (though at 4th level, you count as having only the base feature.

The Mount counts as its own creature, meaning it can choose any archetype it is eligible for, so if it can select the Charger archetype normally, then yes. Its class features are separate from the character.

Note that by RAW, a Mount can't use the Charger archetype since it does not have access to Share Spells (via the Cavalier's Mount feature), though it is intended for Cavaliers to be able to use this archetype for their Mount feature. And its level difference can be fixed via the Boon Companion feat.


Makes sense.

Except, the last bit: the animal companion wouldn't be from the cavalier class, it'd be from the Animal Ally feat, which would mean it would come equipped with Share Spells :) Even though it's pretty much known that Cavaliers can normally get a Charger, this makes it a touch less messy, I suppose.

So now I just have to dig up resources on how to get more panache, if I feel like dipping a single level into Swashbuckler, just so I can Opportune Parry and Riposte. Shouldn't be too hard. Still don't even know if it's completely worth it, though. Probably not. Especially since I'm kinda thinking about some pally dip anyway.


Mechanical Pear wrote:

Makes sense.

Except, the last bit: the animal companion wouldn't be from the cavalier class, it'd be from the Animal Ally feat, which would mean it would come equipped with Share Spells :) Even though it's pretty much known that Cavaliers can normally get a Charger, this makes it a touch less messy, I suppose.

So now I just have to dig up resources on how to get more panache, if I feel like dipping a single level into Swashbuckler, just so I can Opportune Parry and Riposte. Shouldn't be too hard. Still don't even know if it's completely worth it, though. Probably not. Especially since I'm kinda thinking about some pally dip anyway.

Panache is generated based upon your Intelligence and Charisma modifier. Increasing those, primarily from Stat Headbands, will increase them as well.

Regaining Panache is based only upon critical hits. Getting Improved Critical or Keen on your rapier as soon as possible will be a big deal, and may reduce your need to actually acquire a really high Panache pool.

There are items that provide an additional "pool" of Panache to draw from, and can be used for certain effects as well.

Extra Grit/Panache feat is also something to consider.

2 levels Paladin isn't a bad idea, especially for the Divine Grace. I'd consider the Enlightened Paladin archetype from Inner Sea Combat, since it allows you to also add your Charisma to your AC (similar to a Duelist). It's only 2 points, but you also get Improved Unarmed Strike for free, receive the Monk's Unarmed Strike damage scale (though it's not as strong), the ability to detect creatures that have Ki Points, and an alternate yet better version of Smite Evil.

One of the biggest reasons to not dip is not only losing/delaying class features, but also lacking BAB. Since you're getting some very powerful base Saves, adding Charisma to those Saves (as well as AC), and maintaining the full BAB, is really nice. The problem you will run into, however, is the lack of end-game class features for your Daring Champion. For PFS, this is a really nice build in my opinion, assuming it is legal...

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