So this situation came up in Wrath... surprised it didn't come up in Shackles with Potion of Heroism.
Facing the villain and a character plays Nectar of the Gods which says (among other things) "At the end of the turn, banish this card."
Succeed in defeating the villain and he has no where to escape. End game.
The game ends in the Explore phase and never makes it to the End Turn phase. Do you banish the Nectar of the Gods. (Logically I think so but can't seem to find the rule that would support that.)
Help appreciated.
Thanks,
By RAW, the card is never banished because the game ends before the current turn does. As a result, it becomes available to rebuild decks with (and is returned to the box if not chosen).
RAI likely wants you to banish it anyway though. The easiest solution to this makes it so that the current player immediately ends their turn after beating the villain but before the scenario is won, but this has a number of subtle effects (some good, some not) such as the possibility of dying after defeating the villain or any checks performed as part of the Scenario reward allowing you a fresh hand to deal with them instead of whatever you had left after bashing the villain to bits. As a result, I don't believe that should be the eventual resolution for this. Maybe "immediately ends their turn but does not reset their hand" instead as that would avoid both of those issues.
I definitely do not want you to get to the end of the turn. We'll take a look at this.
I definitely do not want you to get to the end of the turn. We'll take a look at this.
While doing that, how would you feel about another hypothetical situation: Let's say I'm playing Alain and somehow have a spell that lasts until the end of my turn (like the healy one in AD4 that you can skip your first explore for a 1d4+1 card heal and add 1d8 to checks against Undead -- don't remember what it's called offhand). It's currently Seelah's turn and I play that card so she can heal up. She does that and then spends a blessing to encounter the villain, and wins.
In my opinion, since Alain doesn't have Divine, that spell should be banished at the end of his turn but the game ends before then (indeed it ends on Seelah's turn). I'm thinking this should also be banished as well. Same as if the game ended due to the blessings deck running out but it not being Alain's turn.
Another in this vein is a non-caster (that can get spell card feats) displaying spells (like Ghost Wolf) and then ending the game without having had to banish them. Do they get to keep them in their deck?
Chief Technical Officer
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We are considering replacing this text in the rulebook:
Once you’ve played a scenario, whether you won or lost, rebuild your character deck (see Between Games, below). Put all other cards back into the box.
...with this:
After you complete a scenario, put all cards other than boons back in the box. Then, if any displayed boons could be banished or removed from the game when a certain condition is met (such as the end of an encounter, the end of a turn, or a location closing), treat them as if that condition is occurring. Next, rebuild your character deck (see Between Games, below). Finally, put any remaining cards back in the box.
Thoughts?
Can't we just apply the "immediately end the current turn" stuff when you defeat a villain instead of just when you lose?
I know we discussed the "end the current turn" stuff when you lose the current scenario via blessing advancement, but I forgot whether or not we discussed it when we won the scenario.
Can't we just apply the "immediately end the current turn" stuff when you defeat a villain instead of just when you lose?
I know we discussed the "end the current turn" stuff when you lose the current scenario via blessing advancement, but I forgot whether or not we discussed it when we won the scenario.
I would not want to always end my turn when I defeat a villain and win the scenario.
Sometimes my character would die if I ended my turn. I like being able to go "all in" against the villain in a win-or-die effort.
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Can't we just apply the "immediately end the current turn" stuff when you defeat a villain instead of just when you lose?
I know we discussed the "end the current turn" stuff when you lose the current scenario via blessing advancement, but I forgot whether or not we discussed it when we won the scenario.
I would not want to always end my turn when I defeat a villain and win the scenario.
Sometimes my character would die if I ended my turn. I like being able to go "all in" against the villain in a win-or-die effort.
EXACTLY! RotR Merisiel did this very thing not 24 hours ago, in fact. Don't make us reset our hands when we win!
No one wants you to reset your hands, and no one said you would have to. Please focus on Vic's wording.
It already bothers me that you can lose a scenario (or die even, though that itself is kind of awesome at the same time) after you've won it. When you win, the game should just end, done, finished, congratulations, load bearing boss style.
I really like Vic's suggestion because it sorts out potions and a number of similar issues without bringing in a whole bunch of other side effects.
After you complete a scenario, put all cards other than boons back in the box. Then, if any displayed boons could be banished or removed from the game when a certain condition is met (such as the end of an encounter, the end of a turn, or a location closing), treat them as if that condition is occurring. Next, rebuild your character deck (see Between Games, below). Finally, put any remaining cards back in the box.
Should it instead say "that condition has occurred"?
Otherwise, this sounds reasonable.
I'm only slightly concerned about something that would say "If you fail a check, banish this card." Or something like that. I'm not sure any such things exist though.
I'm only slightly concerned about something that would say "If you fail a check, banish this card." Or something like that. I'm not sure any such things exist though.
I agree.
I like Vic's proposition but with a caveat: if the "condition" that is "occuring" may involve some actions from the characters (like a check), then they should be able to try it.So I would just reverse the order of things (and as of now I see no issues created with that).
After you complete a scenario (i. e. at the time you meet the win or lose conditions), treat, in the order you choose, any displayed boons that could be banished or removed from the game when a certain condition is met (such as the end of an encounter, the end of a turn, or a location closing), as if that condition is occurring. Do that until there are no more such displayed boons. Then put all cards other than boons back in the box.
Next, rebuild your character deck (see Between Games, below). Finally, put any remaining cards back in the box.
OK may need rewording but the idea is that I should still have my complete hand/deck (including cohorts, banes... if I have some in hand/deck) to deal with "banished" or "removed from the game" conditions when taking care of displayed cards at the end of scenario.
Makes sense?
Thanks, Vic.
"if any displayed boons could be banished or removed from the game when a certain condition is met (such as the end of an encounter, the end of a turn, or a location closing), treat them as if that condition is occurring."
I see where you're going with that, but want to make sure you're intending for the players to still activate powers or roll dice after the scenario is over.
Say, someone like Damiel with a Potion of Heroism - it takes playing a power to recharge instead of banish. Trivial and often considered a given, but no cards with "display, then make check or banish" effects come to mind at this time of night. ;)
All the spells that have recharge checks once the turn ends (after being displayed) aren't a big deal, since they stick around even if the check isn't performed.
To answer the original question my group would banish the potion. Because that's pretty much how all potions work and since your character basically "drank" it it doesn't make sense that you would keep it even if the villain was defeated. Our group has, luckily, been together for over 30 years and we tend to let logic play out over technicalities. This doesn't always end up in our favor but in the end it's what we all agree on.