I have an old Arcane Trickster Level 9; 3 Wizard, 3 Rogue and 3 Arcane Trickster; that I need to update with unchained. I built this guy to be a feint master and to basically get SA every attack but with the new updates and rules I am a little at a loss of where start. I know that I can get to the prestige class quicker by taking a feat that increases my SA to the prerequisite of 2d6 but that means I would be giving up some good rogue abilities and I wanted to know how people felt about that as well as what new abilities should I be considering. As a side note I picture him more of a rogue that knows magic versus a sneaky wizard.
I recommend taking the Improved Sneak Attack feat from the Dirty Tactics Toolbox in order to qualify for arcane trickster much earlier in your rebuild.
A 'rogue who knows magic' might be better represented by an archaeologist bard. I'd save the arcane trickster for the 'wizard who knows some dirty tricks' concept and build that for max wizardry as you and Ravingdork describe.
The Archaeologist Bard is pretty cool. I appreciate the idea and I think you are right that the Archaeologist Bard could be an awesome way to build this character. However, I don't want to change the character too much since he has been played for a while now. Getting in at 5th level would get me Tricky Spells 3X a day where we pick up and that is awesome! How about traits and any new Rogue abilities?
Arcane trickster does not work well in melee combat because of the poor BAB.
Instead of archaeologist bard (which is good for a more general concept combatant/explorer), for a feint/Sneak Attack character I'd say a sandman bard with a dip in Unchained rogue might be a better choice.
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Trait - Magical knack
Trait - Reactionary
From here its really where you want to go as a rogue. Enforcer, 2nd story man, con artist, Lifter, impersonator, spy, etc.
Feint never worked well for me vs. Other options.
The 6+ ways to flatfooted
Prescient attack magus lv6 arcana
Blind via dirty trick
Disarm plus catch off guard
Blind via darkness/darkvision
Go first & lookout teamwork surprise rnds
Shatter defenses & shaken (various means)
Impromtu sneak attack
Surprise follow through (half orc slayer archetype)
Feint
There maybe other means too. Righty was my impersonator / enforcer. My colleague Lefty (played by another player) was a 2nd story man / lifter.
Talents
Limited access as a trickster -
powerful sneak isnt bad for targeting flatfooted touch.
I like trapspotter as a backup to my poor rolls.
I like snap shot as well.
Bleed isnt a staple of mine, but ninja talent pressure points is (depending on number of hits I plan to make per round.)
I almost always take combat trick.
At unchained rogue 3 there's only a little changed as far as an arcane trickster will be concerned.
You get weapon finesse for free, and with one of those weapons you get dex instead of strength to damage. If you can convince your GM that touch attack spells is a valid choice, or that choosing unarmed strike covers touch attacks, you have a nice bonus there.
The other change is that the rogue talent list is a little more restricted. The best choice for an arcane trickster before or after unchained will still be combat trick though.
As far as traits go magical knack is essential. If you're playing a half-orc, dirty fighter would suit you well, if you have EWP (Aldori duelling sword) then the duelling cloak adept would be good, if neither then get wayang spellhunter for whichever spell you most like to use with sneak attack.
Thanks guys I will read through all your suggestions and see what jumps out at me.
As briefly mentioned, you can get away with a Rogue with small amounts of magic using Unchained Rogue + Minor/Major Magic + Bookish Rogue feat. The Eldritch Raider archetype will give you a couple 2nd and 3rd level spells per day, too.
Take the sniper feat from dirty tactics + stealth skill unlock that gives you no penalty to sniping.
I have been seriously debating the back and forth of Rogue 3 vs Rogue 1. I know Rogue 1/Wizard/Arcane Trickster will be stronger in the long run...but Rogue talents + evasion would be nice.
Couple of nice builds: I like the foresight Divination Wizard for getting to act in the surprise roung + ambuscading spell (enemies in the surprise round take penalties to saves) or the rogue talent surprise strike (treat enemies in the surprise round as flat footed...even if they have acted).
@Typelouder
Yeah, I hate to say it but I think I am going to hit the Rogue4/Wizard3/Arcane Trickster2 and work the debuff magic and count in the Divination Wizard. I will need to read ambuscading spell and the surprise strike rogue talent because that would be awesome! BTW how does flat footed affect the saving throws vs spells?
Flat footed has no effect on saving throws.
If you use a scorching ray and have 2 rays will both attacks be sneak attacks in a surprise round or a regular round if the target is denied his dex bonus?
If you use a scorching ray and have 2 rays will both attacks be sneak attacks in a surprise round or a regular round if the target is denied his dex bonus?
No.
Sneak Attack: Can I add sneak attack damage to simultaneous attacks from a spell?
No. For example, scorching ray fires simultaneous rays at one or more targets, and the extra damage is only added once to one ray, chosen by the caster when the spell is cast.
Spell-based attacks which are not simultaneous, such as multiple attacks per round by a 8th-level druid using flame blade, may apply sneak attack damage to each attack so long as each attack qualifies for sneak attack (the target is denied its Dex bonus or the caster is flanking the target).
Since using a spell is a standard action you would never get a full attack action possibly getting additional SA damage. Are there any scaling 1st level spells you can use as a touch attack? I was thinking about making a bouncing, intensified and quickened 1st level spell of some ilk using Magical Lineage, Metamagic Master and Spell Perfection to provide at least a couple of better options since I am looking to pump out the SA damage I will need additional attacks.
Thanks for all of your help. I am working on him tonight. I hope to have him posted by Thursday so everyone can give me some insights and direction.
Sorry for the long post...
Please let me know if anyone spots any concerns. I also need to know what people think I should do for the last 3 levels. I know most PFS scenarios do not get that high but I need to plan because this game might get that far. I am getting 3 traits as the beginning. I plan on taking both Magical Lineage and Metamagic Master with Frostbite so I can add the Rime and Dazing options to the spell in addition to Quicken at higher levels.
Bruising Intellect:
Your sharp intellect and rapier-like wit bruise egos.
Benefits: Intimidate is always a class skill for you, and you may use your Intelligence modifier when making Intimidate checks instead of your Charisma modifier.
Magical Lineage:
One of your parents was a gifted spellcaster who not only used metamagic often, but also developed many magical items and perhaps even a new spell or two—and you have inherited a fragment of this greatness. Pick one spell when you choose this trait. When you apply metamagic feats to this spell, treat its actual level as 1 lower for determining the spell's final adjusted level.
Metamagic Master:
Your ability to alter your spell of choice is greater than expected.
Choose: A spell of 3rd level or below.
Benefit: When you use the chosen spell with a metamagic feat, it uses up a spell slot one level lower than it normally would.
I also expect to get a weapon that can do all of the following.
Cruel
Price +1 bonus; Aura faint necromancy; CL 5th; Weight —
When the wielder strikes a creature that is frightened, shaken, or panicked with a cruel weapon, that creature becomes sickened for 1 round. When the wielder uses the weapon to knock unconscious or kill a creature, he gains 5 temporary hit points that last for 10 minutes.
Construction Requirements
Cost +1 bonus
Craft Magic Arms and Armor, cause fear, death knell
Merciful
Price +1 bonus; Aura faint conjuration; CL 5th; Weight —
A merciful weapon deals an extra 1d6 points of damage, but all damage it deals is nonlethal damage. On command, the weapon suppresses this ability until told to resume it (allowing it to deal lethal damage, but without any bonus damage from this ability).
Construction Requirements
Cost +1 bonus
Craft Magic Arms and Armor, cure light wounds
Subtlety
Conductive
Price +1 bonus; Aura moderate necromancy; CL 8th; Weight —
A conductive weapon is able to channel the energy of a spell-like or supernatural ability that relies on a melee or ranged touch attack to hit its target (such as from a cleric's domain granted power, sorcerer's bloodline power, oracle's mystery revelation, or wizard's arcane school power). When the wielder makes a successful attack of the appropriate type, he may choose to expend two uses of his magical ability to channel it through the weapon to the struck opponent, which suffers the effects of both the weapon attack and the special ability. (If the wielder has unlimited uses of a special ability, she may channel through the weapon every round.) For example, a paladin who strikes an undead opponent with her conductive greatsword can expend two uses of her lay on hands ability (a supernatural melee touch attack) to deal both greatsword damage and damage from one use of lay on hands. This weapon special ability can only be used once per round, and only works with magical abilities of the same type as the weapon (melee or ranged).
Construction Requirements
Cost +1 bonus
Craft Magic Arms and Armor, spectral hand
Lvl Class Special
1st Rogue 1 Sneak attack +1d6, Frightening, Finesse Training and Enforcer
2nd Rogue 2 Evasion, rogue talent (Surprise Attack)
3rd Wizard 1 Arcane Bond Divination Wizard Foresight (Opposition Schools are XXXXXXXXXXXXX and XXXXXXXXXXX), Prescience, Scribe Scroll and Rime Spell
4th Rogue 3 Sneak attack +1d6, Brutal Beating, Danger Sense +1 and Finesse Training
5th Wizard 2 Spell Penetration
6th Rogue 4 Rogue talent (Assault Leader), uncanny dodge, Debilitating Injury
7th Wizard 3 Greater Spell Penetration
8th Arcane Trickster 1 Ranged Legerdemain
9th Arcane Trickster 2 Sneak attack +1d6, and Dazing Spell
10th Arcane Trickster 3 Impromptu Sneak Attack 1/Day
11th Arcane Trickster 4 Sneak attack +1d6 and Bouncing Spell
12th Arcane Trickster 5 Tricky Spells 3/Day
13th Arcane Trickster 6 Sneak attack +1d6 and Quicken Spell
14th Arcane Trickster 7 Impromptu Sneak Attack 2/Day and Tricky Spells 4/Day
15th Arcane Trickster 8 Sneak attack +1d6 and Spell Perfection
16th Arcane Trickster 9 Tricky Spells 5/Day and Invisible Thief
17th Arcane Trickster 10 Surprise Spells, Sneak attack +1d6 and Extra Impromptu Sneak Attack
18th ?????
19th ????? FEAT
20th ?????
And, as I was reading through this more thoroughly I realized that Conductive is not going to work with Frostbite because it is a spell not a spell-like or supernatural ability. Are there any weapon special abilities that allow you to deliver a spell through the weapon like a magus?
And, as I was reading through this more thoroughly I realized that Conductive is not going to work with Frostbite because it is a spell not a spell-like or supernatural ability. Are there any weapon special abilities that allow you to deliver a spell through the weapon like a magus?
You can Variant Multiclass into Magus and pick up Spellstrike at 11. You can also get some good Magus Arcana like Prescient Attack (Immediate action after hitting an opponent to deny them dex to AC until the end of your next turn!)
Probably not worth half your feats.
@Xethik
That is a good idea. I do not think I am going to spend half my feats though.
However, Even before your post I was thinking about the Magus since I am playing one in another game. I like the flow and abilities the Magus offers. Normally with the way the Magus' powers work I do not think dipping into another class is a good idea I was considering it for the character or one similar. 4 levels of unchained rogue and the rest magus might be a potent mixture for a debuff king. The stat requirements have great synergy and the ability to rime spell, frostbite, free intimidate with enforcer, use brutal beating to sicken the target and put a debilitating attack all in one hit is outstanding! Get high enough to add in dazing spell and this is just vicious!!!