Zen archer help...


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Scarab Sages

Chacatumbi wrote:
Jodokai, it certainly is a gm call, but there are other threads on this actually and it's a 6 feat investment for combo... 4 dimentionals, outflank, coordinated shot.

Unless you dip inquisitor for solo tactics, it's still two teamwork feats. Without solo tactics you expressly do not count as your own ally for teamwork feats. Even if you are flanking with yourself from dimensional assault, you are not flanking with an ally with a teamwork feat.

Silver Crusade

My PFS Zen Archer is Zen Archer/Qinggong Monk 7, Evangelist of Erastil 10 (Prestige Class), and 1 Level of Inquisitor (will have 3 levels when hes done).

My big note is after you get your last attack from flurry, I find little is needed from Monk at that point, so cherry picking some other abilities is nice. I dont really understand why you are going with the dimensional line personally, I have never found the need for it as a Zen Archer when I played, I hit basically everytime I attack (bar that 5% from a Natural 1). The beauty of a zen archer is you can basically hit anything you want, whenever you want, from wherever you want. You can also substitute as an amazing tank with some incredible saves.


Imbicatus wrote:
Chacatumbi wrote:
Jodokai, it certainly is a gm call, but there are other threads on this actually and it's a 6 feat investment for combo... 4 dimentionals, outflank, coordinated shot.
Unless you dip inquisitor for solo tactics, it's still two teamwork feats. Without solo tactics you expressly do not count as your own ally for teamwork feats. Even if you are flanking with yourself from dimensional assault, you are not flanking with an ally with a teamwork feat.

Solo tactics do not allow you to act as your own ally. They allow you to use others as if they had the teamwork feat, except only you get the benefit of the feat. Teamwork feats don’t actually require two or more characters to have the feat. What they do have is a condition that must be met to qualify for the bonus.

Teamwork Feats
Teamwork feats grant large bonuses, but they only function under specific circumstances. In most cases, these feats require an ally who also possesses the feat to be positioned carefully on the battlefield. Teamwork feats provide no bonus if the listed conditions are not met. Note that allies who are paralyzed, stunned, unconscious, or otherwise unable to act do not count for the purposes of these feats.

Solo Tactics (Ex): At 3rd level, all of the inquisitor's allies are treated as if they possessed the same teamwork feats as the inquisitor for the purpose of determining whether the inquisitor receives a bonus from her teamwork feats. Her allies do not receive any bonuses from these feats unless they actually possess the feats themselves. The allies' positioning and actions must still meet the prerequisites listed in the teamwork feat for the inquisitor to receive the listed bonus.

You do count as your own ally http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9nda

Outflank (Combat, Teamwork)

You look for every edge when flanking an enemy.

Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +4.
Benefit: Whenever you and an ally who also has this feat are flanking the same creature, your flanking bonus on attack rolls increases to +4. In addition, whenever you score a critical hit against the flanked creature, it provokes an attack of opportunity from your ally.

All you need to qualify for outflank is that you flank with an ally(Yourself) that has this feat. Since the character is flanking himself due to dimensional savant this is allowed by the rules. The GM is of course free to house rule it, but it is RAW.


Mysterious, you think I should do the 2 level dip in inquisitor? Free cape of resist via protection domain is nice... But dunno.

Also, think i'm missing any essential qiggong powers? Cant think of any other level 7 or less to sub out gas form for and wht to swap perfect self for. We have a cleric in the party, so no reason for the cure disease/poison ones. The teleport the party 1 mile or whatever ability doesn't interest me.


No the protection domain will only give you a +1 on your saves. You last level of monk will also give the same bonus.

True strike is a level 4 power and gives you a +20 competency bonus on your next attack. That seems to be pretty good. Ki stand is also not bad for low levels. Since you cannot fire when prone if someone trips you can no longer flurry.

You could trade out perfect self to greater penetrating strike. Other options would be on one of the critical feats

You could also take both lunge and whirlwind attack to be able to target all creatures within 10 feet of you after 17th level . But again check with your GM on this.

Also don’t sell perfect self short. Chaotic attacks are pretty rare so that allows you to ignore the first 10 points of damage vs each attack. It probably will not help that much vs the boss, but works very well vs minions and summoned creatures. Being an outsider also gives you immunity to a lot of spells including many high level enchantment spells.


Granted Powers: Your faith is your greatest source of protection, and you can use that faith to defend others. In addition, you receive a +1 resistance bonus on saving throws. This bonus increases by 1 for every 5 levels you possess.

It's a plus 5 resist cape at 20 for free and slotless


Chacatumbi wrote:

Granted Powers: Your faith is your greatest source of protection, and you can use that faith to defend others. In addition, you receive a +1 resistance bonus on saving throws. This bonus increases by 1 for every 5 levels you possess.

It's a plus 5 resist cape at 20 for free and slotless

When "levels" are written as part of a class feature, they mean "class levels" (in this case, inquisitor) unless otherwise stated. Things that refer to character level (monk+inquisitor) always say character level.


My Self wrote:
Chacatumbi wrote:

Granted Powers: Your faith is your greatest source of protection, and you can use that faith to defend others. In addition, you receive a +1 resistance bonus on saving throws. This bonus increases by 1 for every 5 levels you possess.

It's a plus 5 resist cape at 20 for free and slotless

When "levels" are written as part of a class feature, they mean "class levels" (in this case, inquisitor) unless otherwise stated. Things that refer to character level (monk+inquisitor) always say character level.

Exactly.


I agree with everything Mysterious Stranger has said so far.

A few other notes:
I would never give up Clustered Shots: it's one of the most effective archer feats, right after Deadly Aim and Improved Precise Shot. At higher levels, DR/- is very common, and you have no other way around it. Also check with your GM on whether Clustered Shots applies against hardness or just DR: if it only applies to DR, then you might consider Hammer the Gap to help you with hardness.

Check out the various trick arrows from Alchemy Manual and Elves of Golarion: see which of these your GM will allow.

Consider carrying multiple single-enhancement bows vs. 1 with everything. There are several decent weapon enhancements for bows, but they are mostly situational. You don't always need Seeking, and Distracting in nice in some cases, etc. (A tangleshot arrow fired from a Distracting bow is a great way to ruin a caster's day.)

Weapon blanches are your friend.

Grand Lodge

Isn't it a problem to use both Zen Archer and Qinggong Monk archtypes. They both replace Diamond Body??


Another way to get a lot of versatility in your attacks is to use magic arrows. Put the enchantments you will always use on the bow, and the situational ones on the arrows. Max out the bonus on the bow as that will always be useful Adaptive is also one you will want on your bow. Things like Holy, Distracting, and elemental damages can all be placed on a simple +1 arrow. 50 +1 merciful arrows cost 8,320 GP. A +5 Adaptive composite long bow costs 50,400 GP. A +5 Adaptive Merciful composite long bow costs 72, 400 GP. If you add Seeking to the bow the cost of the bow goes up to 98,400 GP. So instead of getting a distracting bow to fire tangle foot arrows get distracting tangle foot arrows.

As far as equipment goes make sure you get at least one efficient quiver maybe even two. Also consider bags of holding just for your arrows. You could go through 300 arrows in about 10 to 20 rounds so you will want lots of arrows. For normal arrows get durable arrows so you can reclaim them. Get lots of trick and magic arrows to cover whatever you need. Raining arrows are good for dealing with undead. Blunt arrows are good for skeletons and dealing non-lethal damage without having to use merciful. Trip arrows are also handy for slowing down an enemy. As Gwen Smith said tangle foot arrows are good against spell casters. She also brings up a good point on the blanches. Most people forget about mundane equipment at high levels. This is a mistake because some of the mundane equipment is actually very good.

Scarab Sages

*Khan* wrote:
Isn't it a problem to use both Zen Archer and Qinggong Monk archtypes. They both replace Diamond Body??

Per this FAQ, you can combine Qinggong with any other archetype.


hmm i missed that about the domain power. In that case, it pushes me more for full monk for sure. a +1 resist is pretty useless although the inititiative based on wisdom + dex would be pretty awesome. Not worth it overall though I think.


maybe I should swap out the 20 power though... so I can use enlarge person for increased unarmed dmg for when i ki arrow.


Gwen, I looked at hammer the gap in my alternate build without the dimentional line, but I just dont have any feats left to take it withe the dimentional feats. :(

Scarab Sages

Chacatumbi wrote:
maybe I should swap out the 20 power though... so I can use enlarge person for increased unarmed dmg for when i ki arrow.

Enlarge won't work. When you shoot an arrow while enlarged it returns to normal size. Ki Arrow would allow you to do damage as an unarmed strike as your normal size. Ki Arrow is a waste anyway. You'll do more damage spending the ki point on an extra attack.


Large monk base dmg would be 4d8 plus added str from adaptive bow... Not great at math, but with like 6 attacks for normal flurry, think the added dmg would edge out the extra attack.

Oh and Gwen, I could do 19 monk/1fighter i suppose and pick up hammer the gap. Would lose 1dex/will save and gain 1 fort.

Scarab Sages

Chacatumbi wrote:

Large monk base dmg would be 4d8 plus added str from adaptive bow... Not great at math, but with like 6 attacks for normal flurry, think the added dmg would edge out the extra attack.

Oh and Gwen, I could do 19 monk/1fighter i suppose and pick up hammer the gap. Would lose 1dex/will save and gain 1 fort.

Yes, but arrow is not large. It would be 2d10 (as a medium monk) because the projectile will shrink back to medium as soon as it is launched.


ok, so I would buy large arrows? Doesn't seem like a problem


Do you have a reliable method of getting enlarge person? If not don’t factor it in. Even if you do it will be a GM call if it works with Ki strike.

Do you know what you are likely to be going against? If the things you are going to be fighting cannot overcome damage resistance chaotic it is a very good ability. If you do want to swap it out you can take greater penetrating strike. This allows you to ignore 10 points of damage reduction. It can even ignore untyped damage reduction but only 5 points worth.


we are going to be going up against a lot of demons from my understanding.


Demons will be able to overcome the damage resistance chaotic. The problem with replacing perfect self is there is nothing really good at that level. Ki Shout may be worth a look because demons don’t have resistance to sonic. Wind stance would give your opponents 20% miss chance with ranged weapons when you move, but it cost 2 Ki per round to activate. If there is another ranged combatant Battlemind Link may be worth a look.


Cold ice strike seems good. 15d6 swift action for swapping for perfect self

Scarab Sages

Chacatumbi wrote:
Cold ice strike seems good. 15d6 swift action for swapping for perfect self

It's not terrible, but it is short range, costs a hefty amount of ki, and at that level there are a lot of creatures that resist or are immune to cold damage.


Better (though more expensive) than Enlarge person is Strong Jaw.

Scarab Sages

I'd keep perfect self. Not only do you have dr 10 against almost everything, you also gain complete immunity to any spell that targets humanoids.


I may keep it. Tho aren't most demons weak against cold? Assimars are outsiders less i take the alternate trait.

Scarab Sages

They have almost universal cold resist 10. It's weak compared to their immunity to electricity, but it's still reducing it to 42 average damage. It also costs 3 ki points, which is costly.

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