Alternatives to Grim News From Mosswood


Rise of the Runelords


I don't like infodumps and I don't like letting NPCs lead the PCs around too much. Having Shalelu show up and giving all the information about the goblin tribes/leaders/etc seems boring to me.
I do love Shalelu's character, however and want to use her. Has anyone else let the PCs take a more proactive role in gaining this information? Any ideas on how to do this?
Thanks!

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, PF Special Edition, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I didn't really mind it.

Spoiler:
Thistletop can be tough. Giving them a way to avoid wandering about in the wilderness trying to find out where to go was fine for me. It helps going into Thistletop without having any resources depleted. It also gives them a chance to get to know her.

I wouldn't take great pains to find ways to use her more at this point. There's plenty of opportunity to involve her when you get to Hook Mountain.


The players go into Thistletop because of Tsuto's Journal, not because Shalelu tells them to.
Typically, I find players get more involved when they are active participants, rather than having an NPC sit them down and give them a big infodump. There are times infodumps are appropriate. I'm just trying to come up with alternatives to this particular scene.
Thanks.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

I don't care for pure "NPC tells you all the things" infodumps either, some ways to mitigate that problem in this case are:

Run the News from the Mosswood as an event - have Shalelu take them out to fight goblins (and small talk chat some info on goblins as she goes).

There's a quick side-trek here somewhere called The Toadstool Goblins, that could be a way for the PCs to get the info dump by capturing a goblin and ASKING for the infodump from the goblin - in which case they get the goblin version of an infodump...

Get a goblin who tries to recruit the PCs to help him deal with the "Longshanks Problem at Thistletop" again goblin infodump that the players are gonna ask for.

Have Davrien Hosk talk to them about hunting goblins and give them some of the flavor info. At least the infodump won't be all from one person.


While it doesn't stop the info dump, I had my players encounter Shalelu while they were trying to follow the tracks from the goblin raid and got ambushed by Bruthazmus. (I swiped the idea from elsewhere on the board.) At least then the players were interested in what she had to say rather than Hemlock going "This is Shalelu. She knows a lot about goblins. Please sit here and listen to her lengthy exposition."


I gave my players a mini-infodump. I introduced Shalelu like normal, and she basically said "There are five tribes in the area. They cause some trouble, but nothing as bad as this raid. That was special." They posed a few questions to her, and then moved on. It wrapped up with Hemlock telling the party that if they need goblin questions answered, to ask Shalelu instead of him. It worked well. She stayed aloof in demeanor, but accessible for more info as the party wanted it (they didn't). Of course, now that the story has moved on, she's back in the field. The party doesn't seem to mind that they'll have to track her down for info, though.


the Lorax wrote:

I don't care for pure "NPC tells you all the things" infodumps either, some ways to mitigate that problem in this case are:

Run the News from the Mosswood as an event - have Shalelu take them out to fight goblins (and small talk chat some info on goblins as she goes).

There's a quick side-trek here somewhere called The Toadstool Goblins, that could be a way for the PCs to get the info dump by capturing a goblin and ASKING for the infodump from the goblin - in which case they get the goblin version of an infodump...

Here's a link to my adventure The Toadstool Goblins.

Keep in mind that I was VERY new to PFRPG and to Golarion when I wrote this. The Goblins as presented in the adventure are a lot more organized and less totally crazy than they are supposed to be.

Also-- download the file and open it in Word. Google Docs messes up the formatting pretty badly.

EDIT: I just re-read that adventure for the first time in years. You'll definitely need to modify it a bit: There's a lot of rules creep from 3.5 in there. There are also far more typos than I'd like to admit.


This is great, Haladir.
And, as always, thank you for the feedback, everyone else.


It's important to recognize that part of the AP is as much of an infodump for the GM as it is for the players. It gives the larger goblin ecology of the area so the GM knows how events fit in and has some background in case the story goes off the beaten path (either deliberately or by happenstance. What if the pc's decide to head to Mosswood - what do they find?)

The other trick is to parcel the information out more organically than a long speech from the supposedly taciturn Shalelu. First, there's no reason for her to spiel it off in a meeting with Hemlock and the Mayor who both probably already know it. Second, the pc's can come across the info in other ways. It shouldn't take Shalelu to tell everyone that multiple goblin tribes were involved in the assault and what their names are. That should be clear in the immediate aftermath. Indeed, it's helpful if the pc's get a bit of exposure to the larger conflict - it's under emphasized (in my view) in the AP but while the pc's are fighting goblins at the festival, Hemlock and his men are fighting a larger number of them at the walls, etc. A review of the battlefield would call this out and let the pc's see for themselves the signs of multiple clans. I had Shalelu join the pc's for dinner at the Rusty Dragon after the meeting with Hemlock - this let me reveal that she and Ameiko are friends and let her drop a few tidbits about the goblin tribe chieftains. I didn't but you could also have someone else describe her rivalry with Bruthazmus (perhaps Ameiko.)

Lastly many of these details might be known by ranger pc's who have goblins as a favored enemy or pc's with knowledge-local or knowledge-nature. Can be helpful to give such a pc such information ahead of time as part of his/her background.


I incorporated Toadstool goblins (thanks Haladir) and Shalelu dumped all the info on the players while they were going on the road to the attack site to speak with farmer Kraditt. It takes half an hour so it was more organic. Still it WAS an info dump:) But you would expect it from an expert when you meat one.


Aaron Gillespie wrote:

The players go into Thistletop because of Tsuto's Journal, not because Shalelu tells them to.

Typically, I find players get more involved when they are active participants, rather than having an NPC sit them down and give them a big infodump. There are times infodumps are appropriate. I'm just trying to come up with alternatives to this particular scene.
Thanks.

Are you sure about that? Shalelu tells the PCs that the goblins are planning on mounting another larger incursion into Sandpoint -- that's what prompts them to go to Thistletop and put a stop to it.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Aaron's reply is how it happened in my game as well. From what I remember, she mentions Thistletop when she's talking about the goblin heroes in the area, but she doesn't tell anyone to go there at that time. She knows Ripnugget's dangerous, but so are the others, and while someone's clearly putting together a goblin army, there's a lot of different goblin tribes in play, so she's not sure where the attack is coming from.

Tsuto's journal, however, mentions Thistletop by name, and also names Nualia as the mastermind behind it all. I actually used Shalelu to free up the PCs to take care of Thistletop - they were put in charge of protecting Sandpoint by Belor, and it seemed irresponsible to head out to Thistletop by themselves. Shalelu offered to keep watch over the town while they went out to cut the head off that snake.


Yep. Read it again, El Cuervo.


Aaron Gillespie wrote:
Yep. Read it again, El Cuervo.

Ah, my mistake. We started our Runelords adventure two years ago so it's been a while since I last read that part of the adventure. I had the order of events all wrong in my head. :)

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