Dex Monk


Homebrew and House Rules


So this probably not the first time someone suggested some changes to the monk to make it more appealing to players, but I'll give it my try.

My players found the standard monk quite underwhelming and noted that archetypes which eliminated one of the stat's importance (like the zen archer) look way more interesting to them.

So I was thinking I'm giving my players their wish for the next campaign and let the monk hit and do damage via DEX (similar to 5e monk). This would also nicely differentiate the monk from the brawler and make both more unique.

But I have some questions: Will it be to strong? Should I keep some feat tax (like having to get 1 or 2 feats to make it work)? Has anyone had any experience with such experiment?

I would love some input. Thanks in advance!

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

It's currently possible to make a Dex monk with the Weapon Finesse feat and an Agile Amulet of mighty Fists.

I've played such a monk. The main thing you get out of a Dex monk is really good AC, as you don't have to choose between Str for damage or Dex for AC.

I would dare say it actually makes the (pre-unchained) monk a viable frontline fighter instead of a MAD mess.

Sovereign Court

Yes - it would be too strong. Monks are solid martials - they're just tricky to build well.

The most powerful Core monks already use Dex-to-Damage (unchained monks get more out of STR) - they just need Finesse & the Agile AoMF as Arutema said above. The main disadvantage is that you can't afford it until level 3-4, though in a group you could pool gold to get it by 2 and just pay back your buddies for the next level or two.

You could also potentially dip 3-4 levels into Unchained Rogue, which wouldn't be horrible.

The other dex monk trick is to use the AoMF only for special abilities (Agile/Flaming etc) and for your pure enchantment use an Allying cestus. Arguably you need to use up an iterative on the cestus to activate Allying, but even so it's worth it since you can't afford it until 6 or 8 anyway. It saves a lot of gold & lets you get higher total enchantment.

Dex monks also have the best defenses in the game, especially since the FAQ about Wild armor came out (druids with it were their only competition). Get a wand of Mage Armor and/or a Pearl of Power for a wizard/sorc buddy to use on you and your AC will likely be the best in the group by level 4 at the latest. Dex monks also have saves which are competitive with Palis. (A pali will likely have better Fort while the monk has much better Ref and similar Will - though the monk will have Still Mind to put them over the top.)


Gratz wrote:

So this probably not the first time someone suggested some changes to the monk to make it more appealing to players, but I'll give it my try.

My players found the standard monk quite underwhelming and noted that archetypes which eliminated one of the stat's importance (like the zen archer) look way more interesting to them.

So I was thinking I'm giving my players their wish for the next campaign and let the monk hit and do damage via DEX (similar to 5e monk). This would also nicely differentiate the monk from the brawler and make both more unique.

But I have some questions: Will it be to strong? Should I keep some feat tax (like having to get 1 or 2 feats to make it work)? Has anyone had any experience with such experiment?

I would love some input. Thanks in advance!

Assuming you use the generally accepted feat tax removing system (all light weapons or weapons that normally can benefit from finesse already can use dex to attack, the feat instead lets you use dex to damage on finesse weapons and use dex on maneuvers, among other changes for other feats) it pretty much is already how you want monk. If they are using unchained monk then I'd say just make that their first level feat, otherwise give it to them for base.


Just add the Unchained Rogue Finesse Training ability, but have it work for unarmed strikes and all flurryable weapons. As AwesomenessDog suggested, you might have it replace their 1st level bonus feat.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32

I let my players take Deadly Agility from Dreamscarred press and made Weapon Finesse a free feat. It's balanced and solved many problems.


Thanks for the amazing input! I'll have to check out the different options and figure out which one suits my group the best.

Sovereign Court

Cyrad wrote:
I let my players take Deadly Agility from Dreamscarred press and made Weapon Finesse a free feat. It's balanced and solved many problems.

If you do that STR builds then utterly suck.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32

Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Cyrad wrote:
I let my players take Deadly Agility from Dreamscarred press and made Weapon Finesse a free feat. It's balanced and solved many problems.
If you do that STR builds then utterly suck.

Not true. As long as Dexterity builds do not gain two-handed weapon benefits, Strength builds will always do significantly more damage. Plus, finesse builds limit your weapon selection. Many people have done the math for this.

Sovereign Court

Cyrad wrote:
Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Cyrad wrote:
I let my players take Deadly Agility from Dreamscarred press and made Weapon Finesse a free feat. It's balanced and solved many problems.
If you do that STR builds then utterly suck.
Not true. As long as Dexterity builds do not gain two-handed weapon benefits, Strength builds will always do significantly more damage. Plus, finesse builds limit your weapon selection. Many people have done the math for this.

If they did - they're bad at math.

TWF is already the highest DPR combat style in the game. This gives it no disadvantage. In addition, a Dex build's Dex will inherently be higher than a STR build's STR since a STR build still needs a decent Dex.

For a core monk - who doesn't get 1.5x STR damage anyway - there would be no reason at all to go STR.

I'm not saying that Dex builds have better damage. With your rule they have the same damage and tons of secondary advantages. (Initiative/Reflex/AC/skills etc.)

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32

Even with my houserule, TWF builds still need two feats to be effective and suffer from WBL issues due to having to use two weapons. And their weapon selection is limited. Those are big disadvantages over two-handed builds, which do tons of damage and only need one feat to really shine. To say there's no disadvantage is a complete lie.

The unchained monk is better off two-handing weapons, and the core monk can't take Deadly Agility until 3rd level anyway. If it gives a boost to the core monk, I consider that a good thing.


Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Cyrad wrote:
Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Cyrad wrote:
I let my players take Deadly Agility from Dreamscarred press and made Weapon Finesse a free feat. It's balanced and solved many problems.
If you do that STR builds then utterly suck.
Not true. As long as Dexterity builds do not gain two-handed weapon benefits, Strength builds will always do significantly more damage. Plus, finesse builds limit your weapon selection. Many people have done the math for this.

If they did - they're bad at math.

TWF is already the highest DPR combat style in the game. This gives it no disadvantage. In addition, a Dex build's Dex will inherently be higher than a STR build's STR since a STR build still needs a decent Dex.

For a core monk - who doesn't get 1.5x STR damage anyway - there would be no reason at all to go STR.

I'm not saying that Dex builds have better damage. With your rule they have the same damage and tons of secondary advantages. (Initiative/Reflex/AC/skills etc.)

Not like the fighter with a single twohanded sword can't spend that gold he hasn't spent on two weapons (like the twf'er) for items that boost initiative, all saves, ac, skills, etc.


Arutema wrote:
It's currently possible to make a Dex monk with the Weapon Finesse feat and an Agile Amulet of mighty Fists.

This seems to me, to be still the simplest solution, but I will run the Hell's Rebels campaign next and I want to keep resources a bit scant. Instead I'll introduce a new feat similar to Slashing Grace, only for unarmed strikes (and less complicated). So I'll effectively replace an item with a feat.

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