Marvel's Jessica Jones


Television

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Scarab Sages

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Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Fair enough. That movie has always given me the creeps for some unknown reason. Probably because Pacino is really convincing in his role. So I might be remembering more than the average viewer.

Probably for the way that it completely warps reality the further it goes. It's a fantastic portrayal of temptation into seduction into corruption and the world itself goes with the spiritual slide. From the demonic flashes on the people to the hospitalization and suicide of the wife, to final scene with the shifting walls, it's a slow ride into hell.

It's a great movie, but almost none of what made it great was from Reeves.


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Purple Dragon Knight wrote:

Kilgrave's saves appear to be Cha-based. It can't be Wis or Int, because if one of those were his main stat, he would have made a bee line towards Hulk as soon as he heard of the monster instead of focusing on Jessica Jones and other random humans with no powers.

...or maybe his Int and Wis are sufficiently high enough to know his powers won't work on people with enhanced immune systems or regen?

That kind of completely misses the point of MCU Kilgrave. He doesn't have any grand master plan to take over the world or really draw any attention to himself. He just really wants to continue his luxurious hedonistic lifestyle without drawing attention to himself. Taking control of Hulk is sort of the very opposite thing to do if you havve those motivations.

Running into Jessica Jones was just happenstance, and his fixation with her was solely due to her being the only person he ever lost control of (and to a lesser degree that she happened to be an attractive woman). It has nothing to do with her being super-powered really...

Sovereign Court

Imbicatus wrote:
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Fair enough. That movie has always given me the creeps for some unknown reason. Probably because Pacino is really convincing in his role. So I might be remembering more than the average viewer.

Probably for the way that it completely warps reality the further it goes. It's a fantastic portrayal of temptation into seduction into corruption and the world itself goes with the spiritual slide. From the demonic flashes on the people to the hospitalization and suicide of the wife, to final scene with the shifting walls, it's a slow ride into hell.

It's a great movie, but almost none of what made it great was from Reeves.

That's a 110% how I felt when I first watched it as a young man from a rural area who was studying in a big city where everyone was cold, calculating and rude. :)

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MMCJawa wrote:
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:

Kilgrave's saves appear to be Cha-based. It can't be Wis or Int, because if one of those were his main stat, he would have made a bee line towards Hulk as soon as he heard of the monster instead of focusing on Jessica Jones and other random humans with no powers.

...or maybe his Int and Wis are sufficiently high enough to know his powers won't work on people with enhanced immune systems or regen?

That kind of completely misses the point of MCU Kilgrave. He doesn't have any grand master plan to take over the world or really draw any attention to himself. He just really wants to continue his luxurious hedonistic lifestyle without drawing attention to himself. Taking control of Hulk is sort of the very opposite thing to do if you havve those motivations.

To a degree I also concur, but remember that he was "buffing himself" at the end, and planning to step out of the shadows. Even if I grant you that he might have wanted to stay in the shadows, Hulk 2 (Norton) was very much on the run himself (and even Ruffalo Hulk if you remember how Black Widow cornered him in his cabin) so I could see some synergy with Purple Man and Hulk (Purple Pants Team?)

My wish for a future Hulk movie would be a Banner on the run take (for some reason he must leave the Avengers for a while kinda take). Hulk shines best in the desert bouncing around not fighting the Abomination on top of buildings or whapping Ross on University campuses...


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If they do another Hulk movie (which they say is unlikely, for multiple reasons), I REAAAALLY want to see Planet Hulk done right. And then World War Hulk.

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Rynjin wrote:
If they do another Hulk movie (which they say is unlikely, for multiple reasons), I REAAAALLY want to see Planet Hulk done right. And then World War Hulk.

That's a BIG order man... Dune-like in scope. That would be sweet though...

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baron arem heshvaun wrote:
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Finished it too.
** spoiler omitted **

That's the risk when you use Tennant...

spoilerismzzzz:
it's so damn good that you want more regardless of what the plans are for the character..... sigh... I will accept whatever outcome knowing that what has been done was stellar.

Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Rynjin wrote:
If they do another Hulk movie (which they say is unlikely, for multiple reasons), I REAAAALLY want to see Planet Hulk done right. And then World War Hulk.
That's a BIG order man... Dune-like in scope. That would be sweet though...

Whispered rumors suggest that Planet Hulk/World War Hulk is under consideration...

Sovereign Court

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First they have to get Hulk to speak more than "Leave me alone" and "Puny god" in 3 films he's been in.

Sovereign Court

Hama is right. It's my main complaint about how Hulk has been handled. It's a really, really basic Hulk. Avengers 1 and 2 Hulk is the worst yet IMO: he doesn't talk, yet seems to have Ruffalo's consciousness, without the Int. The point of "different Hulk" in the past was to create a Hulk with a separate consciousness from Banner's. If you have the "Ruffalo always angry Hulk", it should be a "Ruffalo always angry intelligent Hulk." Each iteration of the Hulk since its creation has been different and inconsistent. However controlled Hulk should be smart. Uncontrolled Hulk should be stronger. I reject the latest Kluh bullshit.


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Hama wrote:
First they have to get Hulk to speak more than "Leave me alone" and "Puny god" in 3 films he's been in.

You forgot "Hulk Smash!"

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True I did.


Well, Avengers Hulk showed the promise of intelligent Hulk, as if Banner and Hulk are starting to coexist. The FUN part will be when they fully coexist. ^_____^

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

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Planet Hulk was done (very well, in my opinion) as an animated movie.


I enjoyed it as well, but it's a good storyline with good movie potential and lead-ins to other interesting Hulk movies and character development.

And if anything post-Planet Hulk were to be done, the existence of the animated film makes no difference. Marvel Studios can't expect people to have seen it, so would need to re-do it anyway.

Liberty's Edge

Imbicatus wrote:
Hama wrote:
Except that Reeves wouldn't be seen dead on a TV show. He's a movie actor. Such "shows" are beneath him. And by him I mean his agents.
I would have said the same thing about Kevin Bacon a few years ago, but then he did The Following, and now is going to be in a new Tremors series.

You can probably thank Bernie Madoff for that.

Liberty's Edge

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Rewatching it and I finally found one problem with the casting.

I keep waiting for James Van Der Beek to show up.


Hey, just wanted to say that Keanu Reaves wasn't bad in Point Break..or maybe it was Patrick Swayze that elevated it..have to rewatch

Scarab Sages

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He was perfect as Theodore Logan.

Sovereign Court

He was also perfect as an emotionless alien automaton clone android thing in The Day The Earth Stood Still.

Klaatu.

Keanu.

Shudder in fear mortals!

Shadow Lodge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

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I enjoyed him in John Wick.


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Finished this show up yesterday. I was a little bummed by the resolution

Spoiler:

being such a big fan of Tennant and his performance

but I thought this was another really excellent show by Marvel. Comparing it to Daredevil, I liked DD a bit more (I thought the cinematography in DD was amazing), but I think that comes down more to simple taste than quality.

I'm now quite eager for DD season 2 and for the Luke Cage series. Super pumped.

Sovereign Court

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I agree with you Dal Selpher. DD and JJ are the best thing ever put out by Marvel, or the superhero genre for that matter.


I think I liked JJ a little bit better than DD. I think mostly is because I am a big DD fan and the minor changes here and there probably stood out to me...while I had no idea about anything when it came to JJ. Also the whole Karen Page/Foggy Nelson investigating stuff....was just not that interesting to me....that and Matt needs to spend more time being a lawyer.

On a unrelated thought

Here is a theory that is probably too awesome to happen....

:
With the Cap America Civil War trailer hinting at Steve Rogers giving up the uniform...I am wondering if they will have Simpson (AKA Nuke) take the mantel. He definitely fits the ultra patriot psycho model that was USAgent who replaced Cap America. Like I said I doubt it...

Liberty's Edge

You're confusing US Agent with the Great Director.

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John Kretzer wrote:

I think I liked JJ a little bit better than DD. I think mostly is because I am a big DD fan and the minor changes here and there probably stood out to me...while I had no idea about anything when it came to JJ. Also the whole Karen Page/Foggy Nelson investigating stuff....was just not that interesting to me....that and Matt needs to spend more time being a lawyer.

On a unrelated thought

Here is a theory that is probably too awesome to happen....

** spoiler omitted **

They'll use Bucky. It was foreshadowed in the end credits of the winter soldier.

Dark Archive

Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Kilgrave's saves appear to be Cha-based. It can't be Wis or Int, because if one of those were his main stat, he would have made a bee line towards Hulk as soon as he heard of the monster instead of focusing on Jessica Jones and other random humans with no powers.

I think Kilgrave had much smaller (almost painfully mundane) ambitions.

Personal comfort, a life of luxury, and moral excess for sure, but not building a criminal empire and certainly not world domination.

Almost like Molecule Man from the comic books.

Dark Archive

Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
MMCJawa wrote:

That kind of completely misses the point of MCU Kilgrave. He doesn't have any grand master plan to take over the world or really draw any attention to himself. He just really wants to continue his luxurious hedonistic lifestyle without drawing attention to himself. Taking control of Hulk is sort of the very opposite thing to do if you havve those motivations.

To a degree I also concur, but remember that he was "buffing himself" at the end, and planning to step out of the shadows.

He was buffing himself only to get to Jessica Jones, she was his end game, a fact that she uses against him in end.

Kilgrave puts his life in danger, by having his father administer a full (possibly lethal) dose, because he remains a powerful man with the smallest of ambitions.

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baron arem heshvaun wrote:
Kilgrave puts his life in danger, by having his father administer a full (possibly lethal) dose, because he remains a powerful man with the smallest of ambitions.

That's kind of cool, in that Kilgrave is like Jones and Cage, in that respect. All of them are 'sub optimal' in the exploitation of their abilities potential, either being more or less unwilling heroes, or a kind of half-assed supervillain who'se more interested in getting fed and laid, than in becoming a multi-billionaire and moving into the White House.

Kilgrave has abilities that give him potential that leaves someone like Jeri Hogarth supremely frustrated, because they aren't doing the sort of crazy things *she* would be doing with them.

Of course, having that power available, seems to have robbed him of any real lasting satisfaction from the things he can take, and left him obsessed with the one thing he *can't* just take, love and affection, freely given, from a woman he isn't mind-controlling.


Kilgrave isn't a villain that's all about accumulating power like Kingpin. He's more about fulfilling his immediate primal desires.

If Kingpin is the ego, Kilgrave is the id.

That doesn't make him a better villain than Kingpin, and it doesn't make Kinpin a better villain that Kilgrave. It makes them DIFFERENT villains.

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Set wrote:
left him obsessed with the one thing he *can't* just take, love and affection, freely given, from a woman he isn't mind-controlling.

That's exactly why Jessica Jones becomes his end game, his raison d'etre.

Obsessions, by their nature make otherwise sane people do funny things.

A few years back a friend and I were talking about Bruce Wayne/Batman, and his own obsession.

We reasoned that if a supervillan hired/or was actually a top wunderkid psychiatrist (think Robin Williams in Goodwill Hunting x20) who could "cure" the Dark Knight of his obsession, that would possibly be the end of Bats crime fighting career.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Finished it, loved it. Great performances, great writing.

Spoiler:
While there are ways to resurrect Kilgrave, what with his history of cheating death and with the Hand being a big part of the Netflix branch of the MCU, I think it would be a mistake to do so unless he received major character development, and I'm not certain he'd get it. That said, I do expect to see him again. Either Luke Cage or (more likely) The Defenders should explain how he found Reva Connors.


Rynjin wrote:
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Rynjin wrote:
I didn't even remember he was IN Devil's Advocate. He's that memorable in most of his roles.
Now you're exaggerating. If you watched it you had to know he's in it. Or is your problem of displaced memory due to a large block of data displaying Charlize Theron's young body? :)

I watched it. I remember seeing it when I was fairly little (10-12 or so, on TV well after it came out).

I remember the devil. I didn't know who Al Pacino was at the time, but I remember really liking that performance. Very charismatic. It's been forever since I've seen it, but I remember him giving that little speech in the bathroom.

I could not tell you a single thing Reeves said or did.

That's a step up from the memorably bad performances he usually gives, which is my point.


Spoiler:
I'm OK with Kilgrave being properly dead.

It's a risk that the show will lose direction without him - it's a bit like Tim Burton's Batman, or The Dark Knight, where The Joker is basically the central character who drives the plot, and any sequel has a big big hole to fill.

But in one season, Jessica captured Kilgrave and lost him again about three times. I don't want to see the same thing repeating over and over again; diminishing returns.

Shadow Lodge

I though the Daredevil tie-in was done well.

Edit: Maybe tie-in is bit strong of a word.


Spoiler:
If they were to resurrect Killgrave, I'd like to see him move beyond his self-indulgent villainy. With the increase in his powers, he could be a major criminal player. It would help strengthen the tie-in between shows if a returned Killgrave, backed by the Hand, were to try and usurp the Kingpin's criminal empire, for example. That would push Jessica to rise and meet the threat, not to mention look for allies.


Finally finished it. Loved it! Everything from the opening music to the closing credits, all done very well.

I haven't read any reviews, but I'm sure this show's a big hit.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I thought I detected a few notes from Dexter in that opening music. Anyone else?


baron arem heshvaun wrote:
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Kilgrave's saves appear to be Cha-based. It can't be Wis or Int, because if one of those were his main stat, he would have made a bee line towards Hulk as soon as he heard of the monster instead of focusing on Jessica Jones and other random humans with no powers.

I think Kilgrave had much smaller (almost painfully mundane) ambitions.

Personal comfort, a life of luxury, and moral excess for sure, but not building a criminal empire and certainly not world domination.

Almost like Molecule Man from the comic books.

I think this is one of the things that makes him such a great villain for a short series.

Dark Archive

Caineach wrote:
I think this is one of the things that makes him such a great villain for a short series.

Well that, and the fact that he is an integral and an essential part of Jessica Jones story arc.

I would say he is even more important factor than Luke Cage for the first season.


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First villain in a long time: I'm glad he's dead. I sincerely hope he stays dead.

Spoiler:
Kudos to David Tennant. "Ew! You like the NEW Dr Who? Why?" Because, Tennant. I've been saying since Harry Potter that he does a good crazy and it's nice to be proven right.

I've seen him as a crazy wizard in Potter, as silly Dr. Who, and as a brooding cop in a British show called Broadchurch. His villain in JJ Kilgrave is like a combo of all three at times.

But MAN was he sick!

Every single episode, even the Kilgrave light ones, I wanted to take a shower in my brain. I've seen serial killers on TV shows before and yeah, there's a disregard for human life, but it's NEVER been portrayed like this.

Kilgrave just waves a hand, says a few words and BAM! Life either ruined or ended. He never looks back, or considers later or even freaking BLINKS! OH so much creepy!

But EVERYONE in this show is creepy.

- Luke Cage just batting people around with a slap
- Jessica pushing people into walls, through glass windows and breaking open doors
- Nuke dealing with the detective in the aftermath of Kilgrave's escape

Hell even TRISH and her MOM are creepy at times.

I'll reiterate what I mentioned before. DD is about a guy actively trying to become a hero so there's hope in that show. The last long shot of Jessica, debating whether to call herself a hero in the narration while the character is too wigged out to even pick up the phone and realizing she's struggling with just helping people... that is a BLEAK image.

So the first Avengers movie was comic books for grown ups; Marvel: Agents of Shield is similar; Netflix Daredevil is slightly darker.

Jessica Jones takes all of those "adult" steps, unleashes bodily fluids on them, grinds them into the dirt and then waits til they get back up so it can punch them in the FACE!

Everyone reading this thread that hasn't yet should stop everything you're doing and go spend 13 hours straight absorbing this!


Is anyone else disappointed that Jessica never said "you failed Hells kitchen" when beating someone up?


For the David Tennant fans, you should watch Broadchurch, if you haven't already.

Just finished watching Jessica Jones the other day. I liked it better than Daredevil. I thought DD was poorly paced as a series, it could have been half as long and felt more impactful. So many episodes seemed to path where nothing happened than he got a few more bruises.

JJ was better paced, though 10-11-12 felt a little awkward to me at times, but overall was still well done. My biggest complaint is that if this is supposed to be the MCU, why isn't there more referencing of other events? Daredevil is literally taking place in the same neighborhood and involves lawyers, none of the events in DD even show up in the background or are referenced in JJ. If Marvel really wants there to be a point to the MCU, they should reference themselves more, maybe just news reports in the background, or as characters are turning off televisions in scene transitions.

I particularly thought that the action in Jessica Jones was well done. Marvel hasn't been the best about putting together tight action sequences. While the fights themselves weren't amazing, by keeping most of them short and focusing on the story implications of the fight first and foremost, it helped them feel relevant. More directors need to realize that short fights can be good too.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Slight Broadchurch Tangent.
Did anyone else find it funny, the clip they showed in the BBCA promos, hwne Arthur Darvil shouting at David Tennant "You don't know who I was before!"

I don't know the in series context, but timey wimey, wibbly wobbly out of it :-)


Loved this show. Probably my favorite Marvel property yet.

I do wonder if they don't make ear plugs or sniper rifles in the Marvel Universe, though.

Liberty's Edge

Irontruth wrote:
For the David Tennant fans, you should watch Broadchurch, if you haven't already.

The thing I found funny about Broadchurch is that when they remade it for the US they still cast Tennant as the detective.

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MeanDM wrote:

Loved this show. Probably my favorite Marvel property yet.

I do wonder if they don't make ear plugs or sniper rifles in the Marvel Universe, though.

Sniper rifles are quite difficult to acquire and cost a heap of money.

Dark Archive

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MeanDM wrote:

Loved this show. Probably my favorite Marvel property yet.

I do wonder if they don't make ear plugs or sniper rifles in the Marvel Universe, though.

If Jessica had ever played D&D, or something similar, she would likely have thought of chucking a manhole cover or cinderblock at his head from a half-block away, even if she couldn't get her hand on a pistol and some earmuffs.

Sadly, she lacked that important formative experience.


What does D&D have to do with it? "Chuck a rock at it" isn't exactly a niche idea. =)

Sovereign Court

She can't punch through steel with her nails, as shown in scenes of bloody nails while digging in dirt (or so I think it's dirt). And her nails can't pierce Luke Cages either. Although she *can* generate harmonic vibrations matching the natural frequency of bedposts. :P

So grabbing manhole covers Hulk like is not in the cards.

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