TWF STR to damage


Rules Questions


I can't find where it says .5x str to damage for offhanded weapons. Can anyone help me out? Also, would it also apply to dex to damage from Fencing Grace?


Equipment chapter, description of light and one handed weapons:

Quote:

Light: A light weapon is used in one hand. It is easier to use in one's off hand than a one-handed weapon is, and can be used while grappling (see Combat). Add the wielder's Strength modifier to damage rolls for melee attacks with a light weapon if it's used in the primary hand, or half the wielder's Strength bonus if it's used in the off hand. Using two hands to wield a light weapon gives no advantage on damage; the Strength bonus applies as though the weapon were held in the wielder's primary hand only.

An unarmed strike is always considered a light weapon.

One-Handed: A one-handed weapon can be used in either the primary hand or the off hand. Add the wielder's Strength bonus to damage rolls for melee attacks with a one-handed weapon if it's used in the primary hand, or 1/2 his Strength bonus if it's used in the off hand. If a one-handed weapon is wielded with two hands during melee combat, add 1-1/2 times the character's Strength bonus to damage rolls.

Sczarni

Also in the Combat Chapter.

Since Fencing Grace replaces Strength with Dexterity, the same rules would apply. You're just substituting one stat for another.


Thanks guys. I was looking at the TWF page and didn't see a mention of it. Thanks. Next question is: any way to get full str/dex to it?

Sczarni

Double Slice, although only for Strength to damage.

Also, damage bonuses from Power Attack or Piranha Strike still remain halved.


Wouldn't it work for dex to damage too since, as you said earlier, you're just substituting one stat for another?

Sczarni

The same rules apply.

The benefits of Double Slice call out Strength, though.


Ahh okay. Thank you

Sczarni

If this was for a home game, and I was your GM, I'd totally allow it to work like that, though. Consult your GM (as long as this isn't for PFS).


Yeah, not PFS so I should be able to make a case for it. Thanks for the info!


As a note-if you use double rapiers, you take an extra -2 to attack rolls (for a total of -4) since they are one handed weapons.

Yes, that was very intentional. Paizo does not want easy access to TWF friendly dex to damage. Just about every option they have for it has some restriction, penalty, or extra cost (outside of a couple of cases where it is walled behind an archetype or alternate version of a class, and after 4 levels, going beyond the realm of a 'dip')


lemeres wrote:

As a note-if you use double rapiers, you take an extra -2 to attack rolls (for a total of -4) since they are one handed weapons.

Yes, that was very intentional. Paizo does not want easy access to TWF friendly dex to damage. Just about every option they have for it has some restriction, penalty, or extra cost (outside of a couple of cases where it is walled behind an archetype or alternate version of a class, and after 4 levels, going beyond the realm of a 'dip')

Dex is a generally superior stat to STR. Everybody can make use of dex, not everybody uses STR. It provides a bonus to AC, a save, initiative, and several skills. It also is the prereq for the TWF chain. Why would you not take a bunch if possible? If you can use it for damage, too, it gets even better.

If your GM doesn't rigorously enforce encumbrance rules or make you lift a lot of things, strength can easily be a dump stat if you can get dex to damage or spells.


My Self wrote:
lemeres wrote:

As a note-if you use double rapiers, you take an extra -2 to attack rolls (for a total of -4) since they are one handed weapons.

Yes, that was very intentional. Paizo does not want easy access to TWF friendly dex to damage. Just about every option they have for it has some restriction, penalty, or extra cost (outside of a couple of cases where it is walled behind an archetype or alternate version of a class, and after 4 levels, going beyond the realm of a 'dip')

Dex is a generally superior stat to STR. Everybody can make use of dex, not everybody uses STR. It provides a bonus to AC, a save, initiative, and several skills. It also is the prereq for the TWF chain. Why would you not take a bunch if possible? If you can use it for damage, too, it gets even better.

If your GM doesn't rigorously enforce encumbrance rules or make you lift a lot of things, strength can easily be a dump stat if you can get dex to damage or spells.

Yep. Which is why it typically has a rather high cost when you use it for TWF (an extra -2, the need to tack on +1 enhancements to each of your weapons, etc.).

If you just wanted to sacrifice damage so you can have good AC (going 1 weapon, 1 handed, such as with just a single rapier), that is fine. But TWF is rather powerful (when pull off right) and it is one of the main groups that want to go pure dex.

The only reason why dex is a better stat is because there are options that rip off another stat's stuff. The AC, initiative, and save stuff was put into dex to keep it attractive for fullarmored 2 handers (as well as make it attractive to casters, cause what do they care about other than their casting stat?). Str was a fairly purposeful stat, so taking its stuff and shoving it to dex is obviously going to make it less attractive.

It is like if you made it so cha did skills and knowledge checks. Obvious that would make cha a more attractive stat, and overshadow int.


Already knew about the Rapier stuff.

Sczarni

Effortless Lace is a beautiful thing ;-)


Nefreet wrote:
Effortless Lace is a beautiful thing ;-)

5000 GP for +2 to hit?

So much win.

Granted, this also works for megaweapon Vital Strikers, or just anybody trying to get ahead on the damage dice curve by using bigger weapons. Because the highest base damage 2-handed weapon is not a greatsword, but a Large bastard sword.

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