Spell perfection question

[Thormind]

Creating an evocation Arcanist and i want to make sure what i am doig is legit.

I select the feat that give me 2 bonus trait and i chose for fireball:

Magical Lineage: One of your parents was a gifted spellcaster who not only used metamagic often, but also developed many magical items and perhaps even a new spell or two—and you have inherited a fragment of this greatness. Pick one spell when you choose this trait. When you apply metamagic feats to this spell, treat its actual level as 1 lower for determining the spell's final adjusted level.

I select this feat for fireball as well:

Spell Perfection

Benefit: Pick one spell which you have the ability to cast. Whenever you cast that spell you may apply any one metamagic feat you have to that spell without affecting its level or casting time, as long as the total modified level of the spell does not use a spell slot above 9th level. In addition, if you have other feats which allow you to apply a set numerical bonus to any aspect of this spell (such as Spell Focus, Spell Penetration, Weapon Focus [ray], and so on), double the bonus granted by that feat when applied to this spell.

Am i correct to say that when i use a metamagic feat to cast a fireball its actual level is now 2 lower for determining the spell's final adjusted level? ie spell perfection double the bonus of magical lineage since it came from a feat...

[Chess Pwn]

Spell perfection doesn't double that trait as it isn't an aspect of the spell, and that it's still the trait that's giving the bonus, even though you used a feat to get the trait.

[Slithery D]

No. Feats that buy other abilities (traits, class abilities) don't have their own numerical feat bonuses. You have a trait bonus, that can't be doubled by spell perfection.

If you allowed this you'd have to allow, say, a Psychic to use a feat for an extra phrenic amplification, and then allow any numerical benefit of that amplification to also be doubled. That could, for example, let you get a +6 DC enhancement for 6 phrenic pool points. Nooooope.

[j b 200]

No.

1) Magic Lineage is not a Feat it is a trait. Spell Perfection specifically says Feat not "other ability"

2) Even if Magic Lineage was a feat it would still not apply because this is not a "set numerical bonus." All of the examples are feats that provide a +1 or +2 to a specific type of check involving that spell. Magic Lineage is not a "set numerical bonus" but an ability to partially ignore an adjustment when using another ability (metamagic).

ADDITIONALLY!!!
Spell Perfection allows you to apply a ONE metamagic feat w/o affecting the spell level, since there are no single feats that increase a spell level above +5 (Ascendant Spell from Mythic Adventures), there is no benefit caused by this interaction even if it is legal. Because there is no level increase there can be no reduction in that level increase.

[Thormind]

Chess Pwn wrote:

Spell perfection doesn't double that trait as it isn't an aspect of the spell, and that it's still the trait that's giving the bonus, even though you used a feat to get the trait.

K, thank you. But magical lineage (lets say without spell perfection) does allow me to cast an intensified fireball as a lvl 3 spell, correct? Or a quickened, empowered and intensified fireball as a lvl 7 spell (4-1)+(2-1)+(1-1). That's a lot of power for a trait.

[Chess Pwn]

It reduces the total by one, not each increase. so fireball lv3 +intensify +1, empower +2, persistent +2, trait -1 ends as a lv7.

a quickened +4, empowered +2 and intensified+1 fireball as a lv9 spell 4+2+1-1.

[DM_Blake]

Thormind wrote:

That's a lot of power for a trait.

You're right. It is.

Fortunately, as Chess Pwn said, it doesn't work that way.

SRD, Magical Lineange wrote:

Benefit: Pick one spell when you choose this trait. When you apply metamagic feats to this spell that add at least 1 level to the spell, treat its actual level as 1 lower for determining the spell's final adjusted level.

Notice that "feats" is plural, so this trait applies to casting a spell with any number of metamagic feats.

Note that the spell's "final adjusted level" is reduced by 1. This trait does NOT reduce the effect of each metamagic feat, it reduces the final adjusted level of your chosen spell when you cast it with any number of metamagic feats.

[Ravingdork]

It's debatable, but as shown in this thread, most will say it doesn't work that way.