Dunewalker Osirion Trait.


Pathfinder Society

Liberty's Edge 5/5 5/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Martinsville

I took this trait in Herolab, but it is no longer in the Society Guide. Where do I find it so I can print it out from a source?

As far as I know, it is still a legal choice.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

It's from an older guide. Before season 6, IIRC.

I'm not sure if the trait, or indeed any of the old faction traits is available since you're supposed to use the newest version of the guide.

Scarab Sages

The trait is only legal if you took it as a member of the Osirion faction before season 6. If you are new character, you must choose from the scarab sage traits listed in the Guide to Organized Play.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Yeah, there's that too: You can't be a member anymore.

Liberty's Edge 5/5 5/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Martinsville

I believe there was only three such traits that were taken out of contention, and they had to be retrained. (one was from the Shadow Lodge)

I shall keep looking.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

There've been quite a few traits that aren't available anymore thanks to seasons changing. You're part of the Scarab Sages now, so it's no longer an option.

Liberty's Edge 5/5 5/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Martinsville

There was an explanation that allowed a character to get the Traits from older factions, as long as you were in the faction that it folded into.

Not sure if it made it into the 7th season guide, though, it was in the 6th season. I believe there is a blog post on it.

I am surprised this isn't in another product, it seems like it should have been.

Scarab Sages

It was printed last in the Season 5 Guide.

Liberty's Edge 5/5 5/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Martinsville

I first played the character in Dec 2014, I knew I could take the Trait then.

Is there a list of old faction traits somewhere, or a place to get the older guides?

Dark Archive 4/5 5/5 ****

Sorry. It was not legal after 14 August 2014 (the first day of Gen Con 2014) for new characters. That is when the Osirion faction became The Scarab Sages. I still have the season six guide, so was able to confirm his. The guide wears downloaded August 11

Maybe you meant 2013? It would have bee legal then.

Liberty's Edge 5/5 5/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Martinsville

So why is it still a valid choice on Herolab? I know they are not that far out of date.

From what I remember, I still had the choice to take Traits from the old Factions if you are a member of the faction it folded into, a few specific ones being an exception. This trait just goes so well for the character and I have not been able to find a comparable replacement.

If this isn't one I can have, I will just have to run with just one trait, I can't retrain it now, the character is third level.

I still can't believe it never made it into other products.

Should I put in a bug report to Herolab?

Dark Archive 4/5 5/5 ****

It is listed as Osirion, not Scarab Sages (or both) in Hero Lab. .

It is likely there for a variety of reasons... But if you want, go ahead and log a bug...they might not agree it is a bug though.

This is why I always proof my hero lab characters for errors.

Scarab Sages

It's valid in herolab because it is still a legal trait for those characters that started play before Season 6 in the Osirion Faction. Just like Aasimars and Tieflings created before season 6, or APG summoners created before Pathfinder Unchained.

Herolab is a great tool, but it is not a rules source.

Dark Archive 4/5

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

I wouldn't think this rises to the level of Herolab bug. The trait still needs to be there for the characters who took the trait when they were created in previous seasons.

Perhaps they can change the text to indicate that this trait still exists for cases where it has been grandfathered in?

Grand Lodge 4/5

Allen Wilkins wrote:

I wouldn't think this rises to the level of Herolab bug. The trait still needs to be there for the characters who took the trait when they were created in previous seasons.

Perhaps they can change the text to indicate that this trait still exists for cases where it has been grandfathered in?

Exactly this, for several traits in there, like Hunter's Eye for former Andoran PCs.

Liberty's Edge 5/5 5/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Martinsville

Well, I wish I would have found out when Oops was still first level. Now I am gonna be one trait short.

Ok, I went into Herolab, took off Dunewalker, then put in a permanant adjustment to take the number of traits down one.

I shall just work with it like that.

Dark Archive 4/5 5/5 ****

well, you must replace it with a legal trait. Not a horrid thing, and it was an honest mistake, so no big deal, just fix it. Note what you are doing to your next GM and have him or her sign off on it.

Liberty's Edge 5/5 5/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Martinsville

I am not spending the prestige to retrain.

Grand Lodge

Herolab doesn't know you are not just updating a PC to Herolab.

It's not a bug.

Some things, you just have to actually check yourself.

Like, if something was recently made legal, or illegal.

Herolab will take a little while to be updated.

You accidentally picked an illegal trait. You go to your VC, say "oops" and then he/she tells you to pick a legal trait.

That's it.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Hillis Mallory III wrote:
I am not spending the prestige to retrain.

No prestige cost, you are simply replacing an illegal option with a legal one.

You made a minor error, now you are fixing it. Cover it with your VC or the next GM you play the PC with.

A lot easier than the path my 12th level PC with Hunter's Eye would have to follow to get rid of that trait that he got to use for a couple of rounds in one combat in his entire PFS career, from 1st level through 12th. At 13th, it looks like I take the feat Additional Traits, then on my next adventure, retrain it to something else, giving up Hunter's Eye as one of the traits with the feat. Which also might mean that he won't get to where he wants to, traitwise, until he is 15th level, if he wants a different Liberty's Edge trait to replace the Andoran one...

Liberty's Edge 5/5 5/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Martinsville

Looked at the retraining, there isn't even a way to retrain traits. (There is Race/racial traits that is the ability swaps, but not actual traits)

Even if I wanted to, I can't retrain a trait to another.

The problem, Mr Troll, is that I have already played this character beyond the 1st level so all the Oops is run out for me. (even though the character is named Oops)

Thank you all for helping me straighten that out.

Liberty's Edge 5/5 5/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Martinsville

Assuming we use the Feats as a base, the traits being a half feat, the cost would have been 3 prestige (2.5 days rounded up) and 90 gold.

Since there isn't a good trait to replace Dunewalker with anyhow, I will just go with the one trait.

4/5 ****

There is no cost involved.

Also I believe the rule is 2 traits, not up to 2 traits.

So you literally need to pick a new trait, at no cost, before your character is playable.

Just like if you hit 5th level and realize you never assigned your 4th level attribute bonus, or you chose Aasimar as your race and nobody noticed until level 3.

Illegal options should be fixed when discovered, not left blank, or paid to retrain etc.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Just change it. I had to change my #4's 2nd trait 3 times because there was always something(Berserker of tS taken on a bard level, two religion traits, etc). And I found out only after using them each time. It's not a big deal. I didn't even run that through a gm because it is such a wee thingie.

Horizon Hunters 4/5 5/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Indianapolis

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Herolab doesn't know you are not just updating a PC to Herolab.

It's not a bug.

Some things, you just have to actually check yourself.

Like, if something was recently made legal, or illegal.

Herolab will take a little while to be updated.

You accidentally picked an illegal trait. You go to your VC, say "oops" and then he/she tells you to pick a legal trait.

That's it.

I am his VC. And I am his GM tonight (though not sure if it's for this character.)

This falls into that category of honest mistakes - and when those happen, you just fix it and move on. If it wasn't a legal trait at the time you took it, Hillis (and it sounds like it wasn't), then just replace it and make the character whole. If you took something thinking it was legal, but it wasn't, then you never could have had that trait in the first place. Just replace it and move on.

Liberty's Edge 5/5 5/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Martinsville

Alright. Not having used the actual benefits of the trait, I will take one of the other Scarab Sages/Orsirion traits. I went and took Ancient Historian (Linguistics), getting another language out of it.

I need to print out the page that it is on for the final compliance.

Thanks again, all.

Horizon Hunters 4/5 5/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Indianapolis

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Hillis Mallory III wrote:

Alright. Not having used the actual benefits of the trait, I will take one of the other Scarab Sages/Orsirion traits. I went and took Ancient Historian (Linguistics), getting another language out of it.

I need to print out the page that it is on for the final compliance.

Thanks again, all.

No worries, Hillis! This happens a lot, I'm sure. I think Mike once said that if you find something that is legitimately a mistake, you just fix it and continue on. I don't see any reason to make you pay to retrain a trait that wasn't legal for you take in the first place. That seems unduly punitive to me. :-)

Grand Lodge

I have never seen a player truly punished for a honest mistake.

Know now, that the PFS Community remains fully aware, that everyone involved is a human being.

As you can see, they also realize that humans make mistakes.

So, if anything else happens, that was just a mistake, just be honest, and you shouldn't be punished in any way. It will be fixed, and others will be there to help.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Hillis Mallory III wrote:

Looked at the retraining, there isn't even a way to retrain traits. (There is Race/racial traits that is the ability swaps, but not actual traits)

Even if I wanted to, I can't retrain a trait to another.

The problem, Mr Troll, is that I have already played this character beyond the 1st level so all the Oops is run out for me. (even though the character is named Oops)

Thank you all for helping me straighten that out.

There is a way to retrain traits, but it is convoluted and fairly pricey.

There is a feat called Additional Traits, which lets you take two additional traits.
Take the feat (assuming an odd-numbered level just attained, otherwise retrain into it) and two more traits, so you now have a total of 4 traits.
Now, spend the 5 PP and variable gold to retrain the Additional Traits feat to a different, legal, feat. When you do, you also have to remove two traits with it, since their existence on your character were supported by the feat. Various people have pointed out that the two traits removed do not need to be the two traits taken with the feat, as long as you have a legal number of feats after the feat retraining.

Indeed, if one of the end traits is in the same group as one you are getting rid of, you will need to do this retraining cycle at least twice, so you can legally take that trait.

However, as mentioned, this is for retraining a legal for your PC trait. If you accidentally, as is true in your case, take a trait that is not legal, just swap it out, for free, for one that is legal.

This can happen, by the way, all too easily for the X of the Society traits, as they have two sources, one legal for PFS, the Faction Guide, and one not legal for PFS, the Shattered Star Player Guide. The Player Guide is easier to get, since it is free, and the difference between the two versions is fairly minor, but important. In Shattered Star, there is no class restriction on any of them, where the Faction Guide version is limited to a single class being able to take them.

To be honest, the Faction Guide's restriction makes it more difficult to use an appropriate trait on a multi-class PC, unless the PC starts in that class, which is not always the way the player wants to build the PC. And the last chance rebuild rules mean that, if the appropriate class is the one being taken at second level, it is still not a legal option for that PC to take. :(

It also means that newer classes don't have an appropriate X of the Society trait available to them.

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