Duergar Tyrant


Rules Questions


I am not sure if this has been covered before or not, but a Duergar Tyrant gets

Spoiler:
Telekinetic Adept: A duergar tyrant has access to the basic telekinesis, kinetic form, telekinetic finesse, telekinetic haul, and telekinetic invisibility kineticist wild talents with an effective kineticist level equal to her total character level.

Does this mean they can use the abilities as a kineticist of their character level, regardless of what class they pick (so they could be rogue and sneak attack with their kinetic blast), or does it mean that they get these abilities in addition to what they normally get when they take kineticist levels?

Also, "Duergar tyrants have all of the racial traits of duergar characters (Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 117) except spell-like abilities, in addition to the following.", does this mean that a Duergar Tyrant gets the listed attributes, or both the listed and those published for the original Duergar?


Sigh, that was supposed to be a spoiler tag. On an alternate note: can we get the devs to break down the Duergar Tyrant by RP?

Silver Crusade Contributor

As for your questions:

1) Regardless of class. So your rogue example is spot on.

2) All those listed, plus regular duergar, minus duergar spell-like abilities.

3) The devs are unlikely to issue that info. Never hurts to ask, though - worst case, they say no. I'd do so on the product thread.


It seems to me that giving them, effectively, half the abilities of an entire class, but having them scale off character level, is far beyond broken for anything who's advancement is dependant on classes. I mean I would get 'casts as a sorcerer with a level equal to HD' for a monster, but 'has these at will abilities plus all those gained from class levels' is... yea.


They are supposed to be an npc boss monster only, because wow are they insanely overpowered hah

Silver Crusade Contributor

Skaeren wrote:
It seems to me that giving them, effectively, half the abilities of an entire class, but having them scale off character level, is far beyond broken for anything who's advancement is dependant on classes. I mean I would get 'casts as a sorcerer with a level equal to HD' for a monster, but 'has these at will abilities plus all those gained from class levels' is... yea.

I haven't read the book, but my theory is that - despite presumably being a zero-HD race - they were not meant to serve as PCs under normal circumstances.

They were probably meant to serve as classed enemies - see also, drow nobles.


I don't know about what it says in the bestiary about drow nobles, but the section following the stat block says

Duergar Tyrant Characters Duergar tyrants are defined by their class levels—they do not have racial Hit Dice. A duergar tyrant’s Challenge Rating is equal to her class level. Duergar tyrants have all of the racial traits of duergar characters (Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 117) except spell-like abilities, in addition to the following.

Does this mean they are intended as classed enemies? If so, it stills seems way over the top, as they are effectively getting half the abilities of a class, on top of the rest.


Oh and the back says "New playable races, including variant duergar and samsarans, as well as munavris— albino humanoid denizens of the Darklands’ Sightless Sea. "

Silver Crusade Contributor

Skaeren wrote:

I don't know about what it says in the bestiary about drow nobles, but the section following the stat block says

Duergar Tyrant Characters Duergar tyrants are defined by their class levels—they do not have racial Hit Dice. A duergar tyrant’s Challenge Rating is equal to her class level. Duergar tyrants have all of the racial traits of duergar characters (Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 117) except spell-like abilities, in addition to the following.

Does this mean they are intended as classed enemies? If so, it stills seems way over the top, as they are effectively getting half the abilities of a class, on top of the rest.

It definitely does mean that. Note that a classed enemy usually has a CR of Level -1; the text there indicates that theirs is equal to Level, meaning that they're getting a +1 CR adjustment. Drow nobles work the same way.

Enemy power level doesn't always work the same way as PC power level. I'm pretty sure they're fine. ^_^


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Ah, right. Well I had no idea.
I was going to use them as a base for my saiyan race. Oh well, thanks for the help Kalindlara.

Silver Crusade Contributor

Skaeren wrote:
Oh and the back says "New playable races, including variant duergar and samsarans, as well as munavris— albino humanoid denizens of the Darklands’ Sightless Sea. "

They're playable - in the right campaign.

Drow nobles, trox, svirfneblin, and certain other races are well above the power curve; however, a pro GM could run a campaign for a party of such (adjusting challenges upward to account for their power level).


Well, at any rate, as I said, thanks for the help Kalindlara. Some of this stuff is new to me!

Silver Crusade Contributor

No problem! If you have any other questions, feel free to ask. ^_^


Question, when it says spell like abilities does that mean the +2 save? or the invis and enlarge person spell like abilities? Also are the tyrants playable? cause haveing that +2 Str,+4 Con,+2 Wis and -2 cha is way better then the regular basic stats

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