free cold iron weapons?


Pathfinder Society

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I have been looking for a weapon that would be cheap to give a cold iron for lower levels and realized that per the instruction on cold iron cost (double the weapon normal cost) that it would be free on clubs and quarterstaffs. because both are free and free times two is still free. so in essence if I'm reading this right that every character should be able to just go get a cold Iron club for without costs.
this is kind of broken but RAW unless I missed it every player should have a CI weapon right of the bat for free lol.
also makes me want to play a blacksmith

step 1 "buy" a ton of clod Iron Clubs
Step 2 melt them down
step 3 mold into other weapons
step 4 profit
step 5 laugh maniacally

any thoughts?

Grand Lodge 3/5

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Clubs are made with wood as per CRB, and therefore cannot be made with cold iron unfortunately.

1/5

Club and quarterstaff are wooden weapons and cannot be made cold iron.

Crafting is not allowed in PFS so melting and remaking is not allowed.

Ninja'd in part.

Silver Crusade 1/5 Venture-Agent, Louisana—Denham Springs

Cold Iron clubs are not legal, as it must be an item that is mostly made of iron/steel. Clubs and quarterstaffs, being wooden, cannot be made from cold iron.

1/5

Related note just to make random people groan: this also effects blunt arrows. They are described as having 'wooden tips', and as such, there technically is no such thing as a cold iron blunt arrow, so far as I know.

(Though, I would home rule that they are legal, and just have cold iron 'caps').

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

Step 1 ignores the fast that quarterstaves and clubs are free because they are simple pieces of wood
Step 2 might void it being 'cold' iron.
Step 3 requires a craft check, which means you still have to pay for some raw materials

You might as well just claim that you're getting regular iron clubs and melting them down to sell at 1 sp a pound as a trade good. That isn't how the game works.

4/5 ****

Slings are where the real money is at anyway.

Grand Lodge 3/5

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You mean barbarian loincloths?

The Exchange 5/5

Ross Byers wrote:

Step 1 ignores the fast that quarterstaves and clubs are free because they are simple pieces of wood

Step 2 might void it being 'cold' iron.
Step 3 requires a craft check, which means you still have to pay for some raw materials

You might as well just claim that you're getting regular iron clubs and melting them down to sell at 1 sp a pound as a trade good. That isn't how the game works.

Heck, just start 'em up and sell them for firewood.

5/5 5/55/55/5

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These do not work in pfs. Do not even bother trying.

4/5

For all the different options for 2gp cold iron weapons, there's someone trying to game the system for free?

For shame.

The Exchange 5/5 RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

1 person marked this as a favorite.

How is this a Society issue?

5/5 5/55/55/5

Chris Mortika wrote:
How is this a Society issue?

In a normal game the DM can just declare you crash the economy, supply and demand and all that.

People think that in pfs if they can come up with what they decalre is a rules tight argument for it they can do it.


goldband wrote:


step 1 "buy" a ton of clod Iron Clubs
Step 2 melt them down
step 3 mold into other weapons
step 4 profit
step 5 laugh maniacally

any thoughts?

You have to pay half the cost in materials. Since the Iron Clubs are free, they do not contribute to the cost and cannot be used for crafting, RAW.

Also, "Items without metal parts cannot be made from cold iron" so it's a moot point.

The question is why doesn't every 1st level character have their ammunition made of stone at 1/4 the price (I'm looking at you, Bolas Bolts)?

Scarab Sages

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Kitty Catoblepas wrote:


The question is why doesn't every 1st level character have their ammunition made of stone at 1/4 the price (I'm looking at you, Bolas Bolts)?

I had my monk use obsidian shuriken in addition to cold iron.

4/5 *

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The free download Pathfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Guide answers many of these questions. The core rulebook answers the others. Both a required reading for PFS.

Grand Lodge

It's this kind of BS that screws over my Club PC.

Clubs can be made of metal.

I would just pay for them as if they cost 5sp, or just avoid it.

Don't f**k things up, because you think you are clever.

My PC is not the only one that carries a Club in PFS.

Silver Crusade 3/5

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blackbloodtroll wrote:
Clubs can be made of metal.

Yep, it's called "light mace."

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

blackbloodtroll wrote:
Clubs can be made of metal.

In real life, sure.

In Pathfinder, not that I'm aware of.

5/5 5/55/55/5

The description includes the possibility nails or spikes, which it could be argued mechanically let them overcome DR. The argument for them getting the higher hardness as a metal hafted weapon is a little more iffy.

3/5 5/5

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blackbloodtroll wrote:

It's this kind of BS that screws over my Club PC.

Clubs can be made of metal.

I would just pay for them as if they cost 5sp, or just avoid it.

Don't f**k things up, because you think you are clever.

My PC is not the only one that carries a Club in PFS.

Ahem.

Join the club.

Grand Lodge

Nefreet wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
Clubs can be made of metal.

In real life, sure.

In Pathfinder, not that I'm aware of.

Three VCs told me otherwise. I have a Silver Club, and no one has told me it was illegal.

Basically, a Fish Bat, Tire Thumper, Straightstick, Truncheon, Lead Pipe, or Baton.

I actually carry a fish bat around with me.

When someone asks what a metal club looks like, I show them.

Look at the description:

This weapon is usually just a shaped piece of wood, sometimes with a few nails or studs embedded in it.

Usually, does not equal always.

Hell, there is a creature in the Bestiary 4, that wields a +5 holy cold iron club.

So, some clubs are wood, but for me, my clubs are metal.

5/5 5/55/55/5

Silvermaple club?

Dark Archive 4/5 5/5 *

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Usually, does not equal always.

Hell, there is a creature in the Bestiary 4, that wields a +5 holy cold iron club.

So, some clubs are wood, but for me, my clubs are metal.

The biggest problem in PFS is the 'no assumptions' on price.

So what is the price of a Cold Iron Club?

4/5 *

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Clubs are free because you can go and pick them up off the ground. Because they're made of wood. Show me a cold iron tree in PFS and I'll let you have a free metal club.

If you want to make a metal one, it is mechanically called a light mace.

Scarab Sages

GM Lamplighter wrote:

Clubs are free because you can go and pick them up off the ground. Because they're made of wood. Show me a cold iron tree in PFS and I'll let you have a free metal club.

If you want to make a metal one, it is mechanically called a light mace.

No, a light mace is a light weapon that cannot be thrown. A club is a one-handed weapon that can be thrown. Other than the fact that they both do 1d6 bludgeoning damage, they are nothing alike.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 **** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

Seeing as no one has shown any stats of a club vs a light mace I thought I would provide those stats.

Mace, light 5 gp 1d4 1d6 ×2 — 4 lbs. B — Light Melee Weapon

Club 0 gp 1d4 1d6 ×2 10 ft. 3 lbs. B — One-Handed Melee Weapon

Looking at this information, a mace is a light weapon and a club is one-handed. You can throw a club, but not the mace. The mace is 1 pound heavier. Otherwise there is not much of a difference.

1/5

I dislike the 0 gp entry for club and quarterstaff in the weapons tables. Weapons constructed to be weapons should all have a cost associated with them to reflect the crafting as well as the raw material. Listing club and quarterstaff as 0 cost just leads to issues like the one raised by the OP. IMO all "weapons" picked up off the ground should be improvised weapons.

Improvised weapons read as follows (page 144 CRB):

Improvised Weapons: Sometimes objects not crafted to be weapons nonetheless see use in combat. Because such objects are not designed for this use, any creature that uses an improvised weapon in combat is considered to be nonproficient with it and takes a –4 penalty on attack rolls made with that object. To determine the size category and appropriate damage for an improvised weapon, compare its relative size and damage potential to the weapon list to find a reasonable match. An improvised weapon scores a threat on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a critical hit. An improvised thrown weapon has a range increment of 10 feet.

4/5 *

Yeah, correct - sorry, wasn't thinking on the "light mace" comparison.

4/5

Pink Dragon wrote:

I dislike the 0 gp entry for club and quarterstaff in the weapons tables. Weapons constructed to be weapons should all have a cost associated with them to reflect the crafting as well as the raw material. Listing club and quarterstaff as 0 cost just leads to issues like the one raised by the OP. IMO all "weapons" picked up off the ground should be improvised weapons.

Improvised weapons read as follows (page 144 CRB):

Improvised Weapons: Sometimes objects not crafted to be weapons nonetheless see use in combat. Because such objects are not designed for this use, any creature that uses an improvised weapon in combat is considered to be nonproficient with it and takes a –4 penalty on attack rolls made with that object. To determine the size category and appropriate damage for an improvised weapon, compare its relative size and damage potential to the weapon list to find a reasonable match. An improvised weapon scores a threat on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a critical hit. An improvised thrown weapon has a range increment of 10 feet.

Agreed. I also think it's funny that the difference between a stick and a big stick (club vs greatclub) is 5 gp and martial proficiency. Ultimate Equipment even says that the greatclub could just be a tree branch.

Edit: the thought process after I posted

The party is off in a field, gets attacked, and someone picks up a felled tree branch to use as a weapon. A local farmer immediately runs out and demands 5gp for the greatclub the player just took from his land. An argument ensues about whether it is actually a greatclub or just an improvised weapon.

The Exchange 5/5

I replaced my (first level) club with a silvered Light Mace - and realized that with Throw Anything (from being an Alchemist) I can throw it just like I did my club. So maybe I'll pick up another...

Silver Crusade Venture-Agent, Florida–Altamonte Springs

How it was explained to me back in 2nd edition is a club is like a wooden baseball bat and a mace (heavy mace for 3.0 and pathfinder) is like an aluminum bat. The increase in damage is to allow for the increased damage and distance you get from using an aluminum bat.

I once had someone get upset with me when I disallowed his mithral quarterstaff...he would not believe that I was correct until the VC pointed out the mithral entry in the player's own CRB.

Lantern Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
Kitty Catoblepas wrote:


The question is why doesn't every 1st level character have their ammunition made of stone at 1/4 the price (I'm looking at you, Bolas Bolts)?

Obsidian arrows, yo. Cheaper, lighter, gonna break half the time anyway.

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

Stockvillain wrote:
Kitty Catoblepas wrote:


The question is why doesn't every 1st level character have their ammunition made of stone at 1/4 the price (I'm looking at you, Bolas Bolts)?
Obsidian arrows, yo. Cheaper, lighter, gonna break half the time anyway.

Because for 12 gp I can get 20 cold iron, silver blanched arrows, and ignore both DRs. And unless it is your first game, or you are a machine gun build, that 12 gp will be trivial.

(Just to make sure, you realize bolas bolts require exotic weapon proficiency and a specific exotic weapon, right?)

Grand Lodge

Hey, remember when we couldn't price Mithral Weapons with a negligible weight?

Eventually, there was a FAQ. Price them as half a pound.

So, just wait for a FAQ. Promote it.

You don't need to be a d**k about it either way, with "LOL free Cold Iron", or "Usually, is always, for I am the Wooden Club Master, you cheaty bastard".

Just avoid buying a Cold Iron Club until there is some sort of FAQ, or Developer input.


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ok lol, sorry must have missed a line, making it unable to make clubs and staffs out of cold iron , my apologies. I did not mean to cause such strife thanks for letting me know.
also was not my intent to be cheaty it was to be cheeky about something I thought I understood hence why I put it up here for discussion.

Grand Lodge

There is no line about it one unable to make/buy metal Clubs.

That is decisively false.

Now, what is true, is that there is no current way to price some weapons.

So, you just don't buy them.

Just wait.

Silver Crusade Venture-Agent, Florida–Altamonte Springs

From the description of clubs it is

Ultimate Equipment wrote:
This weapon is usually just a shaped piece of wood, sometimes with a few nails or studs embedded in it.

The other options are "natural" materials bone, stone, greenwood, darkwood, paueliel, whipwood, viridium, and wyroot. There might be others but that's what I've gathered from my library.

5/5 5/55/55/5

blackbloodtroll wrote:

There is no line about it one unable to make/buy metal Clubs.

That is decisively false.

Just because its not specifically prohibited does not mean that its allowed.

Grand Lodge

BigNorseWolf wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:

There is no line about it one unable to make/buy metal Clubs.

That is decisively false.

Just because its not specifically prohibited does not mean that its allowed.

3 VCs told me it was allowed.

Grand Lodge

Tamec wrote:

From the description of clubs it is

Ultimate Equipment wrote:
This weapon is usually just a shaped piece of wood, sometimes with a few nails or studs embedded in it.
The other options are "natural" materials bone, stone, greenwood, darkwood, paueliel, whipwood, viridium, and wyroot. There might be others but that's what I've gathered from my library.

Usually, is not always.

All you see is wood, but notice it never mentions that is always so.

The Exchange 5/5 RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

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For what it's worth, BBT, Venture Captains are not rules mavens, and "I asked a VC" is no better than "I asked my GM."

Venture Captains have been chosen for their organizational zeal and their willingness to get down and dirty with a lot of the paperwork that the campaign requires.

Some of them are very capable with the Pathfinder game rules, and Mike used that skill productively. But certainly not all of them.

If you cite which Venture Captains you asked -- and hey, once you got a VC to agree, why did you go off and ask two others? -- they can chime in and explain their reasoning.

(Or, I could have just taken your troll bait. In which case, well played, I guess.)

5/5 5/55/55/5

blackbloodtroll wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:

There is no line about it one unable to make/buy metal Clubs.

That is decisively false.

Just because its not specifically prohibited does not mean that its allowed.
3 VCs told me it was allowed.

Its not an unreasonable ruling but you're trying to push it as THE ruling and its not: especially with the usual -it didn't say i couldn't therefor i can- fallacy.

The materials a weapon can be made out of has a lot of in game effects : damage reduction, hardness, hit points, warp wood heat metal etc. Most of the oddball materials have clauses that say normally made of metal etc, which clubs are not.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

Playing Devil's (Troll's?) Advocate here, the description does state that a club can have nails or studs embedded in it. While clubs are "usually" made of wood, nails and studs are "usually" made of metal.

So, couldn't those exterior metal bits be made of cold iron, and thus usable for overcoming DR?

5/5 5/55/55/5

Nefreet wrote:

Playing Devil's (Troll's?) Advocate here, the description does state that a club can have nails or studs embedded in it. While clubs are "usually" made of wood, nails and studs are "usually" made of metal.

So, couldn't those exterior metal bits be made of cold iron, and thus usable for overcoming DR?

Its possible (i noted the same thing above) , and it seems fine as long as no one tries to dig the cold iron nails out of 100 free cold iron clubs and make a cold iron greatsword out of it.

Or its possible that the presence of a few nails isn't enough to make the entire weapon count as the special material. I have a silver studded silver maple club on one of my characters from a werewolf fetching expedition, but realize that theres a bit of legitimate table variation around that.

1/5 5/5

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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I think what a LOT of folks are missing here is the very nature of the material in question.

Cold Iron... ie, cold-wrought iron... is notably difficult to work with because it has to be forged without the heat of any fire.

So there'd be no 'melting down' of the iron to make another weapon. It'd destroy the 'cold' iron aspect of the metal and turn it into 'junk' iron (because it is unalloyed and raw).

To figure out a 'nail' for a club? Why not use a piton for the base cost of the nail. Double for cold iron.

Boom. Done.

Disclaimer: My opinion and take, your mileage may vary. Offer not valid at all gaming tables. Twinkishness quotient may apply. Viewer discretion advised. If your cold iron nail remains cold after six hours of immersion in flame, please see your local blacksmith for there may be an adverse reaction with your cold iron.

Grand Lodge

Well, if it is diffficult to work, a Club sounds easy enough to work.

As I said though, with a way to price it, there is no way to buy it.

Adamantine, Mithral, and other Special Materials have a way to price them, so it should be fine.

By the way, if I can't trust my VC to assure me that I have a legal weapon, then who do I trust?

Some random poster?

I have to have a signed affidavit from three different developers, including John Compton?

Why do I have ignore the meaning of "usually" to suite some random person who says that a word means something else entirely?

5/5 RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32

blackbloodtroll wrote:
Why do I have ignore the meaning of "usually" to suite some random person who says that a word means something else entirely?

The usually in the club description is a lot like the Paladin and Ranger lists for animal companions having a line that says GMs can add creatures to the list. But PFS removes the ability for GMs to make these kind of decisions.

The price listed for the club in the PHB and UE is based off the club being made of wood, and GMs in a home game can set the price for alternate materials as they see fit. However there is no way to determine what a steel club costs, and if you can't do so you can't buy one. If you can't determine what a steel club costs you can't add any special material to a club that requires it to be made of metal.

Grand Lodge

Whoah.

There is no "GMs can" here.

A baseball bat made of wood, or aluminum, should have the same stats.

The Light Mace says "simple wooden or metal shaft", but by this logic, it's always a wooden shaft, and you damn well better not say otherwise.

Grand Lodge

What's the cost difference between a Wood shafted Light Mace, and a Metal shafted Light Mace?

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