Bane ability vs swarms


Rules Questions


When enchanting a weapon with the Bane quality, can 'Swarms' be used as its subtype? As in, the weapon functions as a Bane weapon against all Swarms.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Subject to GM ruling, I would say it can be a valid type for Bane. However, you will still want a swarmbane clasp for dealing with diminutive swarms as they are normally immune to weapon damage.

Scarab Sages

Daeslan wrote:
When enchanting a weapon with the Bane quality, can 'Swarms' be used as its subtype? As in, the weapon functions as a Bane weapon against all Swarms.

RAW, no. A swarm is not a type. You would need to choose vermin for bug swarms, or animals for rat swarms.

Also, as most swarms are immune to weapon damage, it wouldn't be the wisest choice.


My first impression is no, as swarm is a subtype and Bane selects types as written. Now, that's partially due to a very ambiguously-written ability (what exactly is a "designated foe?"), but the chart clarifies it in the same way that Ranger Favored Enemy appears.

That said, there's a reasonable argument to be made about selecting a subtype only as a viable choice. The question is whether you should have to also select a type. The options that you select a subtype for are forced selection (Outsider and Humanoid).

I would say that RAW/PFS readings do not allow you to select Swarm Bane, but home game GMs may allow it.


That was the concensus on our end as well. Thanks everyone. :)


I would also have to lean towards no. I wouldn't let a Bane weapon target a Troop or Mob type. If the Troop is humans, then it would have to be a human bane weapon, if it was a Mob of goblins, it would have to be a goblinoid bane weapon. Just not any type of Mob or Troop or Swarm. Fortunately, as mentioned, swarms tend to reliably be vermin or animals.

Not saying you can't have a weapon that does bonus damage to swarms, but, specifically towards you question, I don't think per the rules that it can be a Bane weapon, even if it ends up having a similar effect.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I base my opinion of it being valid on the fact that certain published materials have included 'Organization X'-Bane weapons.


TriOmegaZero wrote:
I base my opinion of it being valid on the fact that certain published materials have included 'Organization X'-Bane weapons.

Ah, but is that an example of the rules being used, or an example of an exception to the rule?


Imbicatus wrote:
Daeslan wrote:
When enchanting a weapon with the Bane quality, can 'Swarms' be used as its subtype? As in, the weapon functions as a Bane weapon against all Swarms.

RAW, no. A swarm is not a type. You would need to choose vermin for bug swarms, or animals for rat swarms.

Also, as most swarms are immune to weapon damage, it wouldn't be the wisest choice.

Bane butterfly nets?

Bane flyswatters?

Bane soles on your shoes?

Bane rolled up newspapers?

;)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Lost In Limbo wrote:
Ah, but is that an example of the rules being used, or an example of an exception to the rule?

I do not find that distinction to actually matter. It is still up to the GM to decide how he wants to use it.


TriOmegaZero wrote:
Lost In Limbo wrote:
Ah, but is that an example of the rules being used, or an example of an exception to the rule?
I do not find that distinction to actually matter. It is still up to the GM to decide how he wants to use it.

Well yes, it's always up to the GM and they can houserule bane to work any way they want it to.

But since we're in the Rules Forum it's usually good to make a distinction between how the base rules that everyone starts with work, versus the modifications that individual groups might come up with. Otherwise every question here could be answered with "Yes/No/Maybe/Ask your GM".

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Hence why I prefaced my response with 'subject to GM ruling'.

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