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FAQ REQUEST - Bard Masterpieces and Bardic Performance


Rules Questions

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381 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 50 people marked this as a favorite.

Hey all! This FAQ is long overdue for those who like to play Bard. I think an FAQ request has been tried before but never mustered enough interest to get on the radar. Let's give this another shot and hopefully we can wrack up enough votes to get attention and fix this issue.

This FAQ request will hopefully get an answer to two questions: If your not sure of the historical / mechanical background for these questions check out the spoilered sections.

Background:
The Bard's masterpiece ability has been in contention since it was first published. The ability requires us to give up a feat slot or a spell slot to gain an ability that utilizes Bardic Performance rounds. The ability is supposed to be roughly as powerful as the spell slot you give up.
However, there is contention over whether the Bardic Masterpiece counts as Bardic Performance or just utilizes performance rounds. The community has been relying upon an interpretation of the rules by James Jacobs as an ad hoc ruling. However these answers were very short and people have interpreted them differently. It is thought that at first James Jacobs ruled that you could utilize both a masterpiece and a standard Bardic Performance at the same time. However, in a later post he clarified that ruling and claimed that Masterpieces are Bardic Performances. IF it is considered a Bardic Performance then a Bard will almost never utilize the masterpiece because to start it they would have to end their inspire courage. The current consensus is that this is almost never worth it.
As such, the minimum level at which a Bard can use both a performance and a masterpiece is Lvl 10. At this lvl a Bard gains access to the 4th lvl spell Virtuoso Performance which allows them to start a second performance at double round cost. So a Bard has to give up a spell slot for a masterpiece that they then have to spend another high lvl spell and double performance rounds to use. As you can see, this is extremely costly to use. As such, a variety of masterpieces are not worth the effort and only THE BEST masterpiece would ever be considered for use. At 5th lvl the Bard gets Shadow Bard, reducing the cost to only the stated number of performance rounds. However, this is a 5th level spell you are casting to use a masterpiece that may only replicate a 2nd lvl spell.

1) Are Bard Masterpieces considered Bardic Performance, and thus subject to ALL rules and mechanics that govern performances, or are they a separate mechanic that just utilizes Bard Performance Rounds to regulate the usage of? Can you utilize both a Bardic Performance (inspire courage) and a Bardic Masterpiece at the same time without any other ability (shadow bard, etc)?

Background:
The current community has been functioning off of the ruling by James Jacobs that Masterpieces are Bardic Performances and subject to all rules as such. This has limited the number of masterpieces that players consider to be usable in play. These masterpieces usually fall into two categories: 1) masterpieces with long term effects and 2) masterpieces whose ability is good enough to use Virtuoso Performance or Shadow Bard on. However, another contention has arisen. Bardic Performances state that "A bard cannot have more than one bardic performance in effect at one time." The community is split on what this rule actually means in regards to EFFECT.
Is this just the English word effect meaning that the Bard can not be performing two performances at the same time? Or is this the game term EFFECT, meaning that any in play mechanical advantages created by the performance are ended even if they are long term effects and the Bard is no longer actually performing when they start the next performance. An example of this would be that the Bard utilizes the Masterpiece Triple Time to give all allies an extra 10 ft of movement speed for an hour. Long after the Bard has stopped performing for this effect but before the EFFECT has expired, the party gets into combat. The Bard then starts an Inspire Courage and because two EFFECTs can not be in play at the same time, the triple time effect ends prematurely. In this case Triple Time is a complete waste of a Masterpiece because when you actually need the extra movement is when you would loose it because the extra To Hit and Damage are a better option.

2) IF masterpieces are bardic performances and subject to all stated rules regarding performances: Are long term effects (effects lasting beyond the time required to perform) of masterpieces, such as Pageant of the Peacock or Triple Time, ended when you start another masterpiece or Bardic Performance?

Please FAQ this request so that we can solve this issue finally and stop bugging James Jacobs with this.

Leave a post on your thoughts / opinions as this helps keep the thread alive and on the front page. A living FAQ is an FAQ that gets answered. So if you can think of anything else to add feel free to add it. I cannot guarantee that it will be addressed but the developers may see it if this actually goes for an FAQ.

Grand Lodge

5 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

As someone with some small interest in development that makes Masterpieces more relevant, I approve this FAQ.


FAQ'd

Anything that improves healthy gameplay diversity is a good thing.

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I honestly believe that Bardic Masterpieces were originally created so that bards can use them. If they are ruled as Bardic Performances, they suddenly become an option that will only rarely get chosen, because you can cast spells while maintaining inspiring courage. Why would you give up a spell that you can use while inspiring courage to learn a masterpiece that you cannot use while inspiring courage?

Bardic Masterpieces are a creative and flavorful option. Please allow them to be relevant for bards again.

Thank you, Lab Rat, for leading the way! We bards will sing your praises!

Hmm


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Hmm wrote:

I honestly believe that Bardic Masterpieces were originally created so that bards can use them. If they are ruled as Bardic Performances, they suddenly become an option that will only rarely get chosen, because you can cast spells while maintaining inspiring courage. Why would you give up a spell that you can use while inspiring courage to learn a masterpiece that you cannot use while inspiring courage?

Bardic Masterpieces are a creative and flavorful option. Please allow them to be relevant for bards again.

Thank you, Lab Rat, for leading the way! We bards will sing your praises!

Hmm

Absolutely! With the current ruling, most are completely irrelevant.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

FAQ'd and dotted.

Put me down in hoping that they can be used in parallel with regular performances. The faster usage of Bardic Performance rounds should be control enough in my opinion.


Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Rory wrote:

FAQ'd and dotted.

Put me down in hoping that they can be used in parallel with regular performances. The faster usage of Bardic Performance rounds should be control enough in my opinion.

Yep, an already existing buffer against abuse of this ability!

Grand Lodge

As it is right now masterpieces are entirely too situational and I've never sat with a bard that used one. They always only inspire (or their equivalent if they traded it away).

I, and apparently all the bards I've sat with, see them as non-compatible with each other. I see enough ambiguity in the rules that they could work at the same time and if that were officially faq'd that would help a lot.

Grand Lodge

Rory wrote:

FAQ'd and dotted.

Put me down in hoping that they can be used in parallel with regular performances. The faster usage of Bardic Performance rounds should be control enough in my opinion.

Agreed! Bardic Performance Rounds are a limited resource.

Hmm

The Exchange

FAQ'd. Please make masterpieces usable with normal performances.


1)All then no.
2)yes

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Chess Pwn wrote:

1)All then no.

2)yes

Heh, I'd say answer 2 there contradicts answer 1.

Effects which are present only WHILE the bard is performing (or a bit longer with options like the lingering performance feat) should stop when the bard starts another performance. Effects which continue without the bard having to perform should not.

That is, 'Inspire Courage' should end when 'Inspire Competence' starts... even if it would otherwise have been extended by lingering performance.

However, a bard playing a 'Fascinate' performance does NOT immediately lose the fascinate effect on all targets when they seek to apply a 'Suggestion' performance to one of them (which would prevent the suggestion since the target was no longer fascinated). That 'Suggestion' does NOT suddenly vanish when the bard continues to fascinate the crowd the next round (or when they play any other performance). Someone killed by 'Deadly Song' does NOT return to life if the bard at any point in the future plays a single round of 'Inspire Courage' (or anything else). Targets of the Sandman archetype's 'Slumber Song' do not suddenly wake up if the bard leaves the area and then starts another performance. A storm called by a Sea Singer's 'control weather' power does not suddenly wink out of existence if he uses 'Inspire Competence'. Et cetera.

Ergo, since masterpieces are treated as performances in all ways (answer 1) they too would not have effects which last beyond the end of the performance suddenly cease when another performance/masterpiece was begun.


Suggestion specifically says "using this ability does not disrupt the fascinate effect, but it does require a standard action to activate (in addition to the free action to continue the fascinate effect)." This is what lets them not stop the Fascinate effect. Otherwise they couldn't do both. But as soon as he starts another performance the fascinate would end as he's no longer maintaining the performance.

Deadly song doesn't have a lasting effect. If it kills them then they are dead regardless of the song. Just like a spell moving a mountain doesn't move it back once the spell ended.

Slumber Song is the same as deadly. It put them to sleep, them sleeping isn't an effect of the song, the song gave them the status and is now done as the effects of the song are done.

Sea Singer's - These effects continue for as long as the bard continues performing (the effects of control weather happen immediately) since the effect happened immediately the song is done and not effecting anything.

all of the effects of these song are done once you've used it, as instantaneous duration spells, there's no lingering effect of these songs. but triple time as an example does have an effect that persists because of the song, like duration minutes per level spells, thus that effect would leave if you started a new song.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Tales Subscriber
Ultimate Magic wrote:

Action: This line indicates the type of action performing the masterpiece requires. If it only requires a standard action to activate, being able to activate a bardic performance more quickly (at 7th level, activation is a move action, and at 13th, it becomes a swift action) applies to the masterpiece as well.

Unless otherwise stated, effects or feats that extend the
duration of bardic performance
(such as the Lingering
Performance feat in the Advanced Player’s Guide) do not
apply to masterpieces.

Why would the bolded parts be stated if masterpieces were performances?

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Chess Pwn wrote:
all of the effects of these song are done once you've used it, as instantaneous duration spells, there's no lingering effect of these songs. but triple time as an example does have an effect that persists because of the song, like duration minutes per level spells, thus that effect would leave if you started a new song.

You didn't specify what would happen to an implanted suggestion if the bard used another performance (or just continued the 'fascinate'), but the logic above would suggest that you'd have the suggestion be removed since it has a duration (hours per level).

I don't see anything in the wording of the abilities which makes that case... and it would seem to have been worth mentioning that once you implant a suggestion (or use various other 'long duration but not permanent' effects) you either have to avoid bardic performances for hours or cancel the effect.


The effect of the spell is implanting the suggestion, then the effect of the song is done. The suggestion runs it's time and doesn't care what you do.
But again in triple time you see that it is often saying that the effects of the song, the effects last, the effect doesn't work for. This to me shows that the whole thing is the effect and thus would leave if you started a new one.

But perhaps I'm wrong and the suggestion would end.

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I am so sick of shallow group groovethink passing itself off as 'consensus.'

It's okay for Masterpieces to be "situational." It's more than okay. EVERYTHING is situational - including Inspire Courage.

Given that most PC Bards aren't Tuvan throat-singers, it seems pretty obvious to me that you shouldn't be able to sing a song of knightly valor or what have you AND perform the Dumbshow of Gorroc at the same time. If that's an issue, my suggestion would be to make the Masterpieces a bit more powerful.


33 FAQ hits in about 4 hours.

This is promising.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Chess Pwn wrote:

The effect of the spell is implanting the suggestion, then the effect of the song is done. The suggestion runs it's time and doesn't care what you do.

But again in triple time you see that it is often saying that the effects of the song, the effects last, the effect doesn't work for. This to me shows that the whole thing is the effect and thus would leave if you started a new one.

But perhaps I'm wrong and the suggestion would end.

Seems like semantics to me... I could as easily say, 'the effect of triple time is implanting a +10 bonus to movement for one hour, then the effect of the masterpiece is done'. If anything, given that suggestion is "as per the spell", and the spell has an hour/level duration, it would seem like suggestion is the 'effect continuing past the end of the performance' and triple time potentially an 'instant change that lasts some amount of time'.

In any case, very subjective and not spelled out that way in RAW for bardic performance. RAW for lingering performance could be taken that way, but I don't think it was the intent.


You all are unbelievably awesome. I would never have expected 40 FAQ clicks in 6.5 hrs that this thread has been active. It took my Gunslinger FAQ thread 3 weeks to get 46 clicks. Thank you all for following through and supporting this thread.

If you haven't noticed by now I plug any FAQ threads I have active to keep them alive, bring new people to the thread, and hopefully yield an answer. I will do the same with this thread when occasions arise.

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:

I am so sick of shallow group groovethink passing itself off as 'consensus.'

It's okay for Masterpieces to be "situational." It's more than okay. EVERYTHING is situational - including Inspire Courage.

Given that most PC Bards aren't Tuvan throat-singers, it seems pretty obvious to me that you shouldn't be able to sing a song of knightly valor or what have you AND perform the Dumbshow of Gorroc at the same time. If that's an issue, my suggestion would be to make the Masterpieces a bit more powerful.

Have you never heard someone sing and play a guitar at the same time?

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
claudekennilol wrote:
Have you never heard someone sing and play a guitar at the same time?

That's possible (out of game). Singing two songs, performing two dances, or playing two guitars at the same time is not. Yet the rules don't make any mention of which performance types can/cannot be combined... because they don't need to. They already say, "A bard cannot have more than one bardic performance in effect at one time."


Actually the rules don't state that a bard actually performs anything while using an inspire courage. If that was the case all those poor non talking non dancing bards are hosed. All those instrument based performances require two hands. So no spell casting or combat for those inspiring bards. Of course that is silly. This is a game first and realistic role playing second but only if the realism doesn't get in the way of the game mechanics.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Lab_Rat wrote:
Actually the rules don't state that a bard actually performs anything while using an inspire courage.

"Bardic Performance: A bard is trained to use the Perform skill to create magical effects on those around him, including himself if desired."

Using the perform skill means you are performing something.

"Inspire courage can use audible or visual components. The bard must choose which component to use when starting his performance."

Each bardic performance option specifies the performance types which can be used with it. For inspire courage it can be any type.


7 people marked this as a favorite.

Food for thought from James Jacobs, who was heavily involved in the bard text.

Some context for why James Jacobs is a good source for how the Bard works and how it functions.

James stating that the text you quoted regarding the perform skill is vestigial holdover from 3.5 that should have been cut. In his words...its flavor.

James stating that you don't make perform checks when using performances and that only specific types of performances require a check..

One more statement on how the link between Bardic Performance and the perform skill is a lot like the link between spellcasting and the spellcraft skill

Grand Lodge

Lab_Rat succinctly proved my point for me.


Relating to the links from Lab_Rat;

With Versatile performance, do you actually make a performance for the skill (such as you play a flute solo for a Diplomacy check..), or do you simply get to substitute the skill ranks and make the Diplomacy check as normal (such as talking to them in character or what have you)?


Some of the credit for that James Jacobs explains the Core Bard link post goes to Cheapy. I remember seeing those posts when James wrote them but Cheapy keeps a great Dev Commets wishlist. So it was easier to go through Cheapy's wishlist posts than to re-read the entire Ask James Jacobs thread.

Shadow Lodge

faqd ive been curious about this myself

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

That's a new argument.

1st argument: "Actually the rules don't state that a bard actually performs anything while using an inspire courage."
Actually, the rules DO state that.

New argument: 'James Jacobs says that rule is a holdover and in his opinion should not count.'
Eh, not exactly. The passages cited certainly say that you don't need to roll a perform skill check to use bardic performance (with a few specific exceptions)... but that isn't the same as saying there is no sort performance involved. Indeed, he says, "It's more likely that you're singing or bragging or taunting or dancing or otherwise just showboating to raise your allies' morale." All of those examples are some form of 'performance'. The character is performing, the player just doesn't have to roll any dice for it. Maybe you can make a better case for it being humanly possible to simultaneously enact multiple generic 'performances' (i.e. not tied to specific skills) of this type, within the bounds of the continuing requirements for 'audible' and 'visual' performance components, but that still runs aground of the statement that; "A bard cannot have more than one bardic performance in effect at one time."


Elfinlocks wrote:

Relating to the links from Lab_Rat;

With Versatile performance, do you actually make a performance for the skill (such as you play a flute solo for a Diplomacy check..), or do you simply get to substitute the skill ranks and make the Diplomacy check as normal (such as talking to them in character or what have you)?

My understanding is that you are still using the actual skill you are using. Your only substituting your perform skill check bonus for that skill. No one is going to expect the Bard to bust out his keyboard and play an intimidating little ditty on how the half-orc should be cowering in his boots.


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CBDunkerson wrote:

That's a new argument.

1st argument: "Actually the rules don't state that a bard actually performs anything while using an inspire courage."
Actually, the rules DO state that.

New argument: 'James Jacobs says that rule is a holdover and in his opinion should not count.'
Eh, not exactly. The passages cited certainly say that you don't need to roll a perform skill check to use bardic performance (with a few specific exceptions)... but that isn't the same as saying there is no sort performance involved. Indeed, he says, "It's more likely that you're singing or bragging or taunting or dancing or otherwise just showboating to raise your allies' morale." All of those examples are some form of 'performance'. The character is performing, the player just doesn't have to roll any dice for it. Maybe you can make a better case for it being humanly possible to simultaneously enact multiple generic 'performances' (i.e. not tied to specific skills) of this type, within the bounds of the continuing requirements for 'audible' and 'visual' performance components, but that still runs aground of the statement that; "A bard cannot have more than one bardic performance in effect at one time."

I may have been a little broad in that post. Let me re-iterate what I was saying from what I wasn't.

I am not arguing that a Bard can have multiple performances up. The rules are pretty straight forward and blunt on that point. IF its a performance you can only have 1 up at a time unless you have some other ability to break the generic rule. Done and Done.

I am also not arguing that inspire courage does not have some performance based component. It still requires you to choose either a vocal or visual component.

I am arguing that the bard is not actually doing a performance per say with their perform skill and associated instrument. That would be unfair to any bard character that focused on an instrument based performance rather than a vocal / dance. A bard who focuses on perform (strings) does not have to be holding or even using their lute to inspire courage.

I also think that the idea that a real world inability to combine performances is naive and ignoring quite a lot of artistic performances in a variety of settings. Go watch a musical and see song combined with dance combined with acting. Listen to Weird Al combine comedy and song. Listen to an acoustic guitar player combine a bass, rhythm, and percussion tracks for a song on a single guitar. There is no real world reason to ban using multiple performances or a performance and a masterpiece at the same time. There is only the question of whether it is overpowering and should be banned based on the concept of game balance. That is not a question I have enough game knowledge to answer and thus the FAQ.

Grand Lodge

Well said, Lab Rat! Hey, 73 people FAQ'ed this one! Awesome.

I'm really hoping that we'll be able to inspire at the same time as using a bardic masterpiece. Bardic masterpieces are a really costly option for bards: in addition to the cost of the feat or the spell known, they require a sizable investment in skill ranks. To make that investment worthwhile, this has to be an option that we can use.

Hmm

Shadow Lodge

73 ppl in onde day, think thats a new record


It's an old issue, I hope it gets an answer soon


ElementalXX wrote:
73 ppl in onde day, think thats a new record

Maybe. The jump FAQ wracked up 72 votes and an answer in a tad bit under 48hrs. It would be fun to beat that.


I am curious as to what our rate of accrual is regarding FAQ votes. So I am going to post the number of votes on this FAQ each morning @ 8:30am eastern time (my time).


So a question to tide us over:

If you could use a masterpiece AND a performance at the same time, what early entry masterpieces would you utilize? For the sake of defining early entry lets say its any masterpiece that requires ditching a 2nd lvl spell and 5 ranks or less in a perform skill.

On of my ideas for a buff bard who doesn't actually do combat but is at the front line inspiring allies would be Dance of 23 steps. This way I could take all my useless To Hit bonuses that I am not using and convert them to AC.


skald with song of the people's revolt, the one that gives everyone a teamwork feat. Man, I'd love to give everyone amplified rage while I raging song.


People's revolt for sure.

23steps, salted earth, homesick wanderer are all good for particular builds/settings/campaigns


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Tales Subscriber

My bard in Jade Regent is fond of using triple time.


Triple time works either way, since it's duration is longer than the activation


89 FAQ votes in 48hrs!

Well we surpassed the Jump FAQ vote wise though they received an answer by now. However, the Jump FAQ probably had perfect timing with regards to scheduling a developer FAQ meeting and also only required a re-explanation of how to remove both feet from the ground. I am going to assume that our questions might require a little more thought on how the answer effects the balance of the game.


You know that paizo doesn't like it when you put faq request in the title of your threads right


That may be but the title is not really aimed at them. It's aimed at the players on this board. That's why the original post is addressed to other members and is requesting votes for these questions and NOT addressing paizo staff, requesting answers.

One of the issues of the past with some particular FAQ questions is not that they were bad questions or that enough people didn't feel that it needed answered. It was that people didn't know the thread existed and was trying to get an FAQ. The bardic masterpiece question has been asked multiple times and only ever racked up 15 or less votes per thread. Obviously enough people care about the question, it was just that most people never even knew the question was being asked. If the title didn't reference that it was aiming for an FAQ, every bard loving player who knows the issue would just go " Ugh! Another player who can't use the search function and is asking if Masterpieces and performances can work together." SKIP!

FAQ threads live and die by their visibility.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
shroudb wrote:
Triple time works either way, since it's duration is longer than the activation

Not if it gets cancelled the moment you use any other bardic performance (i.e. see question 2).


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Tales Subscriber
CBDunkerson wrote:
shroudb wrote:
Triple time works either way, since it's duration is longer than the activation
Not if it gets cancelled the moment you use any other bardic performance (i.e. see question 2).

To my understanding, nothing in the rules really indicates it would.


Zaister wrote:
CBDunkerson wrote:
shroudb wrote:
Triple time works either way, since it's duration is longer than the activation
Not if it gets cancelled the moment you use any other bardic performance (i.e. see question 2).
To my understanding, nothing in the rules really indicates it would.

to my understanding, everything in the rules really indicates it would. :)


Lab_Rat wrote:

So a question to tide us over:

If you could use a masterpiece AND a performance at the same time, what early entry masterpieces would you utilize? For the sake of defining early entry lets say its any masterpiece that requires ditching a 2nd lvl spell and 5 ranks or less in a perform skill.

On of my ideas for a buff bard who doesn't actually do combat but is at the front line inspiring allies would be Dance of 23 steps. This way I could take all my useless To Hit bonuses that I am not using and convert them to AC.

I wanted to use it with Dance of the Peacock (+ Versatile Performance + Xenoglossy) so my Skald could use Sing to Bluff (VP) for Linguisitics (DotP) to speak with summoned animals (X) while they were under the effect of my raging song. :D (still not sure if animals qualify for communication through Xenoglossy, but my GM ruled that I didn't need to go through all of those hoops anyway, so I didn't end up doing it :D)

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Chess Pwn wrote:
Zaister wrote:
CBDunkerson wrote:
shroudb wrote:
Triple time works either way, since it's duration is longer than the activation
Not if it gets cancelled the moment you use any other bardic performance (i.e. see question 2).
To my understanding, nothing in the rules really indicates it would.
to my understanding, everything in the rules really indicates it would. :)

RAW for the Lingering Performance feat certainly say that:

"The bonuses and penalties from your bardic performance continue for 2 rounds after you cease performing. Any other requirement, such as range or specific conditions, must still be met for the effect to continue. If you begin a new bardic performance during this time, the effects of the previous performance immediately cease."

However, given that the RAW for bardic performance itself do NOT say the same and the fact that it just doesn't make any sense (e.g. Lingering Performance becomes a massive self-nerf), I have taken RAI here to be that performances which normally end when the bard stops performing continue for two rounds UNLESS the bard starts another performance... while effects which normally continue after the bard stops performing are not impacted.

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