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FAQ REQUEST - Bard Masterpieces and Bardic Performance


Rules Questions

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Horselord wrote:

Also, the idea of leaving the interpretation of the mechanics to the GM just doesn't work in PFS - characters either get swapped out with a disagreeable GM, or players look at the option as too subjective to be worth playing. Vague rules don't fly in PFS.

I agree wholeheartedly however once it gets an FAQ then your probably stuck that way. So do you want a rushed FAQ that makes Masterpieces effectively useless instead of table variation? Hell there are things that have sat on the FAQ for years that we all assumed were never getting an official ruling. And yes sadly the push the forums give with every ruling, (even ones that are cut and dry now turn into people trying to prove the devs wrong.) makes it so that instead of just writing a one sentence FAQ they need a paragraph triple checked and approved by deacons of Asmodeaus just to avoid the majority of that crap.


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Sahansral wrote:
Horselord wrote:
People saying Masterpieces are the domain of just the bard are wrong. Any class that gains bardic performance can access them by spending a feat for each one.

Quote from PFSRD:

"Prerequisites: Like feats, masterpieces have prerequisites that a bard must meet in order to learn them. Only bards may learn masterpieces."

Skalds also qualify.

ACG wrote:
A raging song counts as the bard's bardic performance special ability for any effect that affects bardic performances. A skald may learn bard masterpieces.


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My problem is not that the FAQ has gone this long without being addressed, that is frustrating and disappointing but not a HUGE issue, my problem is that they keep adding to a "broken" feature.

If no one knows how exactly it operates then you should stop making it until it is solved.

It is a massive perception issue. Your company only comes off as incompetent when you keep doing this.

You have a problem, you acknowledge the problem., you say since there are so many masterpieces that work differently it is a complicated problem, and you continue to put out new masterpieces before addressing the problem. The only thing your customer sees is incompetence at best and great at worst.

It's almost like making a car that uses and engine that has a 95% failure rate within 10 miles of use. When it is brought to the attention of the company they acknowledge the problem, say they will address the problem and continue to make more cars using the same engine.

People buy the new cars thinking that the problem has been solved only to discover that no, no it has not. The customers then bring the issue up again with the company, and the company again responds with an acknowledgement of the problem and promise of a fix. They also say that since they have more cars on the road now then when the problem was first brought to their attention, the fix will be more complex.

The customers accept it, but then see the company continue to make and sell more cars with the same problem.

It just does not help your image.

*Edit* I love playing Bards. I want to look at using the masterpieces, but until this gets answered, I am not going to even bother touching them.


Andarion wrote:

My problem is not that the FAQ has gone this long without being addressed, that is frustrating and disappointing but not a HUGE issue, my problem is that they keep adding to a "broken" feature.

If no one knows how exactly it operates then you should stop making it until it is solved.

It is a massive perception issue. Your company only comes off as incompetent when you keep doing this.

You have a problem, you acknowledge the problem., you say since there are so many masterpieces that work differently it is a complicated problem, and you continue to put out new masterpieces before addressing the problem. The only thing your customer sees is incompetence at best and great at worst.

It's almost like making a car that uses and engine that has a 95% failure rate within 10 miles of use. When it is brought to the attention of the company they acknowledge the problem, say they will address the problem and continue to make more cars using the same engine.

People buy the new cars thinking that the problem has been solved only to discover that no, no it has not. The customers then bring the issue up again with the company, and the company again responds with an acknowledgement of the problem and promise of a fix. They also say that since they have more cars on the road now then when the problem was first brought to their attention, the fix will be more complex.

The customers accept it, but then see the company continue to make and sell more cars with the same problem.

It just does not help your image.

I can see your point but we aren't a 95% failure rate in fact maybe .95% just look at this thread a lot of people "knew" how it worked before this thread brought to their attention that there were other interpretations. Their games ran just fine with no issues combining the 2 and there are plenty of people out there who probably still don't know there is an issue. I'm sure there are even PFS games that are unaware that a conflict exist. Could they put a moratorium on Masterpieces and Sagas in the meantime, sure but keep in mind that not every book gets personally checked by even the PDT for errors and rules issues. And even the ones that do still need correcting or clarifying from time to time. Maybe the guy who approves new masterpieces is oblivious to the plight of this thread, I doubt it but who knows. What we do know is they are still making them, we just don't know why. And to speculate that its because they don't care is not helping anything.


Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Gisher wrote:
Sahansral wrote:
Horselord wrote:
People saying Masterpieces are the domain of just the bard are wrong. Any class that gains bardic performance can access them by spending a feat for each one.

Quote from PFSRD:

"Prerequisites: Like feats, masterpieces have prerequisites that a bard must meet in order to learn them. Only bards may learn masterpieces."

Skalds also qualify.

ACG wrote:
A raging song counts as the bard's bardic performance special ability for any effect that affects bardic performances. A skald may learn bard masterpieces.

Oh, don't start that! Because now we have Sagas and ONLY Skalds can do those....which, IMO, means the Masterpiece feature needs to go back to being Bard specific only.


Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Andarion wrote:

My problem is not that the FAQ has gone this long without being addressed, that is frustrating and disappointing but not a HUGE issue, my problem is that they keep adding to a "broken" feature.

If no one knows how exactly it operates then you should stop making it until it is solved.

It is a massive perception issue. Your company only comes off as incompetent when you keep doing this.

You have a problem, you acknowledge the problem., you say since there are so many masterpieces that work differently it is a complicated problem, and you continue to put out new masterpieces before addressing the problem. The only thing your customer sees is incompetence at best and great at worst.

*Edit* I love playing Bards. I want to look at using the masterpieces, but until this gets answered, I am not going to even bother touching them.

Let's not toss the entire feature simply because they won't 'fix' it. Masterpieces are one of the best ways to customize a Bard character, IMO. So, let's not entirely eliminate it--especially if you are NOT playing PFS.


Fourshadow wrote:
Gisher wrote:
Sahansral wrote:
Horselord wrote:
People saying Masterpieces are the domain of just the bard are wrong. Any class that gains bardic performance can access them by spending a feat for each one.

Quote from PFSRD:

"Prerequisites: Like feats, masterpieces have prerequisites that a bard must meet in order to learn them. Only bards may learn masterpieces."

Skalds also qualify.

ACG wrote:
A raging song counts as the bard's bardic performance special ability for any effect that affects bardic performances. A skald may learn bard masterpieces.
Oh, don't start that! Because now we have Sagas and ONLY Skalds can do those....which, IMO, means the Masterpiece feature needs to go back to being Bard specific only.

Bard can do those as well

PFSRD wrote:
Sagas Sagas are specialized applications of a skald’s raging song ability, functioning much like bardic masterpieces but are available only to skalds. Sagas are never purely artistic constructs; they are designed to preserve lore or commemorate historical figures, and are usually based in fact. Sagas therefore require ranks in Knowledge (history) as a prerequisite, as well. Bards can learn sagas, using their bardic performance ability instead of raging song.

Sovereign Court

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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The bit about "available only to skalds" earlier in the paragraph has caused some confusion. ^_^


Kalindlara wrote:
The bit about "available only to skalds" earlier in the paragraph has caused some confusion. ^_^

I know we need to stop using that language especially for things that are limited to class features already lol.


Is there any class feature still restricted to a single class anyway?


VRMH wrote:
Is there any class feature still restricted to a single class anyway?

Sure. Many of the hybrids get things no other do.

Don't think anyone gets spell kenning otherwise?

Not that I'd complain. Little blending is fun.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Divine Grace?


We're still a few FAQs short of 400.

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