Class advice, I don't want to be a bandaid


Advice

1 to 50 of 67 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>

So I'm joining a game that some friends started last weekend. The party make up is currently a rouge/bard, a fighter and a wizard. The gm is 'encouraging' me to play a cleric or paladin.

I don't really want to play either of those classes, clerics confuse me and seem rather complicated and i don't want to play a lawful character. I would like to play a druid but the gm hates them for some reason that he can't explain. The setting is typical fantasy with a little urban. I think they want someone to play a healer, but I don't want to just be a bandaid the whole time. Any advice?


"Being a healer" only really means you're the one with the wand of cure light wounds. There are numerous places you can find builds for battle clerics that can help to illuminate you on how the class works and can be really fun. It's even less of a problem if you go Paladin, as again, you can just use the wand, and be even more up-front and powerful.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

What do you want to play? The rogue/bard will be bringing at least a little healing. You may want to keep him stocked on wands of the healing spells and play whatever you want.

Another choice is to similarly, play something with good charisma max use magic device, and again, stock wands of healing spells.


Is this the first time playing with this group?

What books are open?

What level? If the rogue/bard is already a bard he can use the CLW wands just fine.

I can see him not wanting a druid if the campaign is heavy urban.

What is it you do want to play?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I happen to like playing clerics (and classes like them). But, I don''t like using all my slots for cure spells. If you choose play a "healer" or secondary-healer type class (such as druid or bard), my advice is that you cast spells more proactively. Rather than fixing problems after the fact, cast spells help your allies or hinder your foes before the problems begin. The intent here is to make it so your allies get hit less, or (in a perfect world) your foes never even get the chance to attack. Of course, you will still need to toss out a couple cures because S happens, but its better to make it a only a couple in a pinch, rather than burning all your spells on them.

Clerics are not complicated. Or rather, no more complicated than any other 9-level prepared caster. I recommend that you play a druid, despite your GM. He didn't actually say no, right?


I think it would help if we knew what you did want to do, working with only what you don't leaves too much room.


Why don't you check out oracles? They can throw out some healing when needed, are less complicated than clerics for spell use, and come with some really amazing abilities via their Mysteries.

But, I agree with the other posters in that we need a little more info on what you DO want to play.


Perhaps a Warpriest? or a Hunter?

...Yeah, it would help to know which books are available or what you'd like to do.

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I wonder how many men still cringe when Rory Williams describes himself as a nurse.


He would prefer if I stuck to the core classes, all archetypes and stuff are okay though. I like the whole nature aspect which is why i really like druids. I want to play as a caster type, but i want to be able to fight too, which is another reason i like druids as they have the whole wild-shape thing. I'm already playing a hunter in another campaign. He also said that it's not all urban, we're going to end up in dungeons/crypts and mountains within 5 levels. We're starting at level 1.

I'm going to ask him again about what exactly he doesn't like about druids.


Play a "NotDruid"
Take wizard and go with the wood school then later Prestige into either Collegiate Arcanist or the Natural Alchemist classes. Using them you can pick up Cure Spells and get some other cool abilities.


Nargemn wrote:
"Being a healer" only really means you're the one with the wand of cure light wounds. There are numerous places you can find builds for battle clerics that can help to illuminate you on how the class works and can be really fun. It's even less of a problem if you go Paladin, as again, you can just use the wand, and be even more up-front and powerful.

This is solid advice, you don't need to be a cleric if you don't want to, and whatever you decide to play doesn't have to be a walking band aid. You can play an Inquisitor, Hunter, Oracle, Warpriest. Basically any class that gets Cure Light Wounds as a spell and can use a wand of CLW will work as a healer in a pinch. Healing definitely does not have to be your character's focus.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I have two things to state here in regards to this that are staple, if not underlying, rules for groups I play in -

1) In-combat healing, with the exception of something absolutely necessary to save someone from death, is a wasted action.

The general expectation from groups with any experience level should be that healing happens OUTSIDE of combat, except when necessary to save a life.

Healing in combat is a negative-sum game in almost all circumstances with the exception of extremely potent magic like Heal. If you're healing inside combat, you are wasting actions that would be better spent removing the source of the damage. I always sigh a little bit when I see someone casting Cure Light Wounds in combat instead of bashing the mage's face in with their mace, or providing flanking or threatening support.

2) Purchasing wands of Cure Light Wounds is a PARTY responsibility, not the Cleric's.

Straight up - Wands of CLW come off party treasure straight up before shares are divvy'd up. Just because you are USING it on everyone doesn't mean it's your responsibility to purchase it with your share of the treasure.

Playing a cleric or "healer" as long as these ground rules are established can be a rewarding and fulfilling experience.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Druids are super fun, and so are rangers. They're naturey too.

Play what you want to. If the party is lacking healing, the GM can give out potions or wands of CLW.

The party bard can already use wands of CLW.


Alright, so it's because he doesn't really understand the class or summoning, he is fairly new to running a game himself so he doesn't want to use things he doesn't understand.


I do really like the whole nature magic and wildshape, what other classes would let me do this? preferably a full caster.


Only suggestion I have if you want to play a Druid is to learn the class backwards and forwards, and teach the GM as you play. That way, after a few sessions he/she will have a better understanding, and you will be having the fun you want to have.

Grand Lodge

Mendevian Priest Cleric is actually pretty fighty.

You can go Reach Cleric, and use a Longspear, or choose a God with a Favored Reach Weapon.

Non-Evil options for Gods with a Favored Reach Weapon are:

Bokrug, Keltheald, Neshen, Olheon, and Shelyn.


How about playing a Witch? They have CLW on their spell list and can learn the very useful Healing Hex at level 1. From there you can develop in a few different directions, focusing on buffing, debuffing, or offense. (The Extra Hex feat lets you also start with the abusively fun Slumber hex too.) Or even melee, I suppose, with the weird hair/nails powers. In roleplaying terms they can be pretty much any alignment, can have a nature theme, and have a familiar, so you can get most of the druid feel, be a useful healer, and not be limited to the party's CLW-wand holder.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Witch is an excellent suggestion!


Play a cleric and throw up some devil horns for your dark lord and savoir.

Wands of CLW are bandaids. Wands of infernal healing are band aids. Everyone except the fight has access to spell lists that let them easily use band aid wands. You do not need to devote your whole character to patching up other characters.

Particularly if they mean 'use all your actions and spell slots in the fight purely to cast cure spells'. If they want that, then tell them to take leadership and get a healbot NPC. You can easily make your job into removing the NEED for constant in fight healing- you should add your blade adn your spells to cut down enemies and bolster allies so that the other side doesn't have time to do much damage.

Grand Lodge

Also, I know you are not interested in non-Core Classes, but the Oracle is pretty rad.

Natural or Lunar Oracle pretty much covers all you needs and desires.

Dark Archive

There are still a large number of important utility spells on the divine casting list for example condition removal is a very large component of the "healer" role which while you can pack some wands and scrolls you will still be short some very key defenses for high tier play.

Examples include Freedom of movement (negates grapple and paralysis monsters) Spell immunity (negates common spells you might be targeted with), death ward (helps alot with energy drain)

Going without divine support is a choice but should still be considered a risk


what is the warpriest like? would that be a good option?


Clerics and Oracles can both be really strong in combat. They also both have some 'nature' options.


IgnisCaelum wrote:
what is the warpriest like? would that be a good option?

Not sure about all the details, but they are somewhat similar to clerics, but better with their weapon (free weapon focus, scaling hit dice), and a mechanic called 'fervor'

Fervor can work like lay on hands if you want it to. Or it can be used to swift action cast a spell (targeting himself only), if I remember right. So the latter is typically used to get a quick divine favor in, which basically works as your stat boosting mechanic (with fate's favored, it gives +2 attack/damage, so on par with things like rage- scales further after that).

They also have a domain-y thing called blessings, but they have their own set which tends to be more combat oriented while cleric domains are more caster oriented. Typically, you want one of the alignment ones, since they have a nice summoning option later on.

Note that they are only 6 level casters though, so there is a definite trade off. But they also have full martial proficiency, heavy armor, and a few bonus feats here and there. So it has a bit of fighter/paladin in there.

So overall...it is like the crusader archetype for clerics, but just better specialized at its job. Clerics can be fairly close to equal in melee with buffs, but the action economy thing is probably the main reason why people might trade the spell levels away.


Personally I've been toying with the idea of a Spirit Guide archetype Battle Oracle which could easily fill a Healer niche while being very fighty. It could be a "fine, I'll play a healer but want flexibility" compromise.

The Battle mystery (and Extra Revelation feat) give you tons of solid melee options, and using the Shaman Life Spirit via the archetype gets you Life Link, Channels and swift action healing, as well as all the needed condition removal spells. Optionally you could choose a different Spirit for the day for flexibility.

Grand Lodge

I very much like the Warpriest.

I have been playing one in PFS since the playtest.

I really like the fact that you can specialize in just about any weapon, and still be fairly competent.

My Warpriest focuses on using the lowly Club.


I strongly recommend the Oradin.

1 Life Oracle pick up Channel Revelation
2 Paladin
3 Paladin
4 Oracle
5 Oracle pick up Life Link

For maximum healing go Hospitaller for the Paladin for the extra Channeling pool.

It starts slow, but it's very rewarding being able to dish out some big damage, and efficiently heal everyone.

The guide over at GitP is very helpful.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?257365-PF-Oradin-Mini-Guide-O r-How-to-be-a-Healbot-minus-the-bot


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber
SmiloDan wrote:
Witch is an excellent suggestion!

I can second this. I have a witch with the healing patron in a cleric-less party.


Pathfinder Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Lots of good suggestions here, but it really comes down to what you want to play.

You have made repeated mention of wild shape. The druid is about the only class that gets that ability.

Your GM isn't comfortable with the druid.

It sounds like you need to have another conversation with the GM. Explain what you think is cool about the druid and how it would fit in with the group. Then ask for more detail about what they are uncomfortable with in the class. Hopefully you can come to an arrangement that both sides are happy with.

A fair number of GMs don't like animal companions. They can slow down the game, require that you learn the Handle Animal rules, and can get in the way of the melee classes. If your GM doesn't like animal companions, perhaps you can agree to go the domain route instead of taking a critter.

Another thing that can slow down combat is summoning. The druid can spontaneously summon creatures. If you are planning to use this, make sure you have the stat blocks for any creature you are going to summon ready and do not slow down combat. Summoned creatures can be a great aid to the group when done correctly, or cause the game to bog down so that all the other players get bored waiting for their turn.

Any class that does summoning should do the preparation work so that they have the information about the summoned creature ready and are able to quickly resolve their actions.

I hope you find a solution that you enjoy!

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I second the suggestion that if you go druid, you prep everything ahead of time. It means you have a little bit of homework to do before game day, but it can be really rewarding to expeditiously manage the action economy of your druid, your animal companion, and your summons.

I usually pride myself on using a single sheet of looseleaf to represent my PC, but when I played a druid, I had a whole sheaf.

My elf druid archer had a character sheet.

My wardog animal companion had a character sheet (including equipment and stat blocks for common buffs, like greater magic fang)

Each of my common summons had a character sheet, with room for tracking multiple hit points. I didn't have Augment Summoning, but if I had, they would have had their stats adjusted for increases in Strength and Constitution.

If I didn't have the stats for a creature prepared, I wouldn't summon it during combat. I wouldn't let that limit me during more utilitarian exploration, but I wasn't going to slow down combat by summoning something exotic just to be different.

Also, I played this druid in a fairly small party: My druid, a fighter, and a fighter/rogue/wizard/arcane trickster, with an occasional eldritch knight visiting and/or DMPC (two different eldritch knight characters, actually).

So my druid had to be very versatile, since he was the only primary spellcaster. He could blast, summon, buff, heal, de-buff (he actually got to make some good use with the Improved Counterspell feat!), battlefield control, divine, transport, scout, tank, shoot arrows (he was an elf, and liked to combine Point Blank Shot and Rapid Shot with produce flame for 3 ranged touch attacks doing 1d6+6 damage at 8th level with a 1st level spell for 2 1/2 rounds!).

Also, Perception is a class skill for druids, have high Wisdom, and elves have a racial bonus to boot!

Grand Lodge

Shaman is also a good option if you want a nature-y caster, and Life Shaman are excellent healers if that's what you want. Human or Half-X Life/Lore with high Wis/Cha and a 14 Int is probably the most flexible caster there is. Plus you've got Hexes for when you're conserving or out of spells.

Life Link goes a long way towards letting you heal your front liners while still having all of your actions for Spells/Hexes. And multiplying the heals of your Channels if you decide to use them.

Scarab Sages

2 people marked this as a favorite.
IgnisCaelum wrote:
Alright, so it's because he doesn't really understand the class or summoning, he is fairly new to running a game himself so he doesn't want to use things he doesn't understand.

Ok, well, how about playing a druid that doesn't use summoning? Storm Druid and Urban Druid both trade out spontaneous summoning for spontaneous domain casting.

Scarab Sages

Play a shaman. Life shaman get awesome healing, and if you get yourself a high base strength, shaman get a hex that lets them shapeshift.


A witch with the Herb Witch Archetype not only has a very naturey feel to it but also can function quite well as a healer. Hope this helps!


Nargemn wrote:
"Being a healer" only really means you're the one with the wand of cure light wounds. There are numerous places you can find builds for battle clerics that can help to illuminate you on how the class works and can be really fun. It's even less of a problem if you go Paladin, as again, you can just use the wand, and be even more up-front and powerful.

This is wrong. If that were all being a healer was the bard/rogue could do it.

Being a healer means bringing the remove and restore lines.

Paladins can almost manage if they take the right mercies and use scrolls for restoration and the wizard handles curses, but they miss blindness until a very high level.

That's what clerics are for and nothing else except the healing patron witch can do the job.


Atarlost wrote:
Nargemn wrote:
"Being a healer" only really means you're the one with the wand of cure light wounds. There are numerous places you can find builds for battle clerics that can help to illuminate you on how the class works and can be really fun. It's even less of a problem if you go Paladin, as again, you can just use the wand, and be even more up-front and powerful.

This is wrong. If that were all being a healer was the bard/rogue could do it.

Being a healer means bringing the remove and restore lines.

Paladins can almost manage if they take the right mercies and use scrolls for restoration and the wizard handles curses, but they miss blindness until a very high level.

That's what clerics are for and nothing else except the healing patron witch can do the job.

I dunno, plenty of parties don't have clerics and get by just fine. The OP doesn't wanna play a cleric, so I figure we should concentrate on helping find something the OP actually wants to play.


I'll jump on the witch bandwagon. What the party is going to need to have is not healing (and especially not during combat healing) but someone who can deal with condition removal, even if it is the next day or (hopefully) from scrolls. As a bonus, the utility of hexes means keeping a quite a few slots unfilled doesn't hurt very much.


Without more information It is difficult to advise alternatives.

Atarlost is correct that many people on these boards think a wand of CLW solves every problem. Parties can and do survive without a cleric/oracle. It is a decision for the players, but has implications they have to live (or die) with.

I am in two adventure paths without a cleric/oracle. On occasions this hurts (costs a lot of money) but we are surviving.


I have a lot of information to give you, but unfortunatly I have to head to work at the moment and won't have computer access until late tonight. When I get back though I will try explaining a little bit about prepared/spontaneous casters, domains (for druids or clerics), potential issues and status effects you might run into with a fairly new DM, and how the non-core casters compare to their core counter parts. In the meantime though i'll leave you this link on optomizing clerics. There is a lot to read through, but if you want a quick synopsis i would first go to the "cleric types" page and then skim the domains for blue or green potions and pick ones that look fun. For the druid side I would look at this link. I started you off on chapter 2 because, specially at low levels, being a fighter type druid is a little easier. Feel free to check out chapter 1 as a more caster oriented build as well. Good luck.


Maybe it's just me, but I think Druids are harder to master than Clerics. Another thought: your desired play style is going to guide you to a class choice, or possible choices.

Whatever you do, don't let the GM push you into a class you aren't ready for. You'll regret it and maybe even burn out on the game. ..in fact, point that GM to this thread.

Scarab Sages

On the other hand, a Cleric of Gozreh with the Animal and Plant domains is going to feel pretty similar to a druid in some ways.


Quote:
They want someone to play a healer, but I don't want to just be a bandaid
Quote:
Play a shaman. Life shaman get awesome healing,

If you don't want to play a healer, don't... I don't understand suggestions saying to do so.

I still don't see why your DM is banning druid. It looks like he is just too lazy to read the class. Saying he doesn't understand summoning and is banning the druid for that is silly more classes can summon than the druid.

I'm all for banning summoning, it can take away from the game in a serious way if not kept in check and used respectfully.

If you want to play a druid and can't convince your DM play a Sylvan bloodline sorcerer. You get the animal companion that way. You get spells, just like a druid (though a different spellset) and you can summon creatures, and late in the game you can polymorph into creatures to fight. not as cool as a druid, but what can you do.


Haldrick wrote:
I am in two adventure paths without a cleric/oracle. On occasions this hurts (costs a lot of money) but we are surviving.

If your cleric is spend most of his spell resource casting healing spells, he isn't all that good for anything else. It is pretty hard for me to imagine spending so much on wands of cure light wounds that I would rather have that gold than have a character that is not just free cure spells. (A cleric or oracle can be a very useful character, but not if the only thing he does is cure.)

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Actually, the Feral Hunter archetype for the Hunter gets Wildshape, and is quite fighty.

Only gets 6th level spells, but it may be easier for your DM to accept.


Scarred Witch Doctor:
Full caster, no pet, high con, and with patron selection can do condition removal nicely.
You can easily mix it up a little in melee without fearing hp problems.
Healing hex saves spell slots, [miss]fortune can be great. Evil eye is a great debuff until you hit mind-affecting-immune.

/cevah

Silver Crusade

Play an urban Ranger with Profession-Herbalist or Profession-botanist skill. Create your urban area's version of Central Park. Have a big dog or squirrel as your companion. In the park, create a garden of healing kit supplies. make money in your off time off your herbalism business. eventually take the brew potion feat. every good urban natural paradise has the creaky old shed where the brew kettles are maintained. besides, the guard dog lets NOBODY near the shed.

Scarab Sages

Cevah wrote:

Scarred Witch Doctor:

Full caster, no pet, high con, and with patron selection can do condition removal nicely.
You can easily mix it up a little in melee without fearing hp problems.
Healing hex saves spell slots, [miss]fortune can be great. Evil eye is a great debuff until you hit mind-affecting-immune.

/cevah

It's not con based anymore. The version you linked has the errata.


Dang. I recall hearing about that, but did not pay attention as I was not looking to make one. Sigh. Errata kills another neat concept.

Still, a witch gives full caster, stat removal, and other stuff.

/cevah

1 to 50 of 67 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Class advice, I don't want to be a bandaid All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.