Armor For PFS Barbarian?


Advice


What kind of armor would you suggest for a first level PFS Barbarian? My Tengu Unchained Pack Rager is in the middle of the Everflame module and I've fount that a Chain Shirt doesn't seem to cut it. AC is 16 (+4 armor, +2 dex) and that drops by 2 when I rage so I get hit easily. Our first encounter dropped me to -1 hp from a non crit (12 +2 con = 14).

Should I give up the 40ft move and go with medium armor instead?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Your first mistake is going front line melee with a con less than 14. And I'd layer toughness on top of it.

Keep in mind that by it's very nature, first level combat is going to be very swingy. And Everflame is pretty deadly for a low level module.


if you're dealing with starting wealth you don't have many options. but if you have some gold, but a four-mirror armor or breastplate is a good buy, and then if you want the movespeed, trade your nomral breastplate for a mithral one when you can.


K-kun the Insane wrote:

What kind of armor would you suggest for a first level PFS Barbarian? My Tengu Unchained Pack Rager is in the middle of the Everflame module and I've fount that a Chain Shirt doesn't seem to cut it. AC is 16 (+4 armor, +2 dex) and that drops by 2 when I rage so I get hit easily. Our first encounter dropped me to -1 hp from a non crit (12 +2 con = 14).

Should I give up the 40ft move and go with medium armor instead?

go with hide and large wooden shield for survivability.

dont rage for the sake of raging.

if youre getting hit ANYWAY with your best armor and shield, THEN RAGE drop shield go two handed.


Any medium armor is going to reduce your speed by 10', so just keep that in mind. My half-orc bloodrager uses a breastplate (+6) and just deals with the 30' speed, but at starting gold, your best bet is four mirror or kikko, like Chess Pwn suggested.

Hide armor is no better than your chain shirt (they're both +4), so it reduces your speed for no benefit. (I really don't know why that armor exists other than flavor or maybe for druids, but it's really terrible.)

Pendergast's suggestion of the heavy shield (any material) is probably your best AC option, and you can just pick up the shield now without changing your chain shirt.

You can also fight defensively, if you get into real trouble: reduce your to-hit by 4 to get +2 AC.


four mirror is quite expensive for the starting 150, as it costs 125. (the price was changed in the errata)


Gwen Smith wrote:

Any medium armor is going to reduce your speed by 10', so just keep that in mind. My half-orc bloodrager uses a breastplate (+6) and just deals with the 30' speed, but at starting gold, your best bet is four mirror or kikko, like Chess Pwn suggested.

Hide armor is no better than your chain shirt (they're both +4), so it reduces your speed for no benefit. (I really don't know why that armor exists other than flavor or maybe for druids, but it's really terrible.)

Pendergast's suggestion of the heavy shield (any material) is probably your best AC option, and you can just pick up the shield now without changing your chain shirt.

You can also fight defensively, if you get into real trouble: reduce your to-hit by 4 to get +2 AC.

my bad i was thinking breastplate when i said hide....

the thing to remember, especially in PFS is you dont have to consider you "character vision" in every choice and peice of equipment you use in the beginning.
its more about surviving to become that vision....

TWF is good example... use a shield in the beginning, eventually . later on Ac is less relevant since almost anything can hit you anyway.


True enough. My concept of weapons would be better on a Fighter, but I play so many of those that I needed something different.

14/15/14/13/12/9 Tengu Unchained Pack Rager using TWF Rhoka Sword & Swordbreaker Dagger.

I suppose 30ft in medium armor is still good, so I'll look into that ASAP. Dunno if I can do that mid module, though. As soon as I can afford one, I was going to grab something Mithral or a Belt of Mighty Constitution to get back the 2 CON that Tengu lose.

I've frontlined with 14 CON before and never really had a problem, but then that is with a Fighter/Brawler with AC19+. Maybe I need to rethink my playstyle more than I thought for Barbarian. More of an ICBM than a Tank.


Gwen Smith wrote:

Any medium armor is going to reduce your speed by 10', so just keep that in mind. My half-orc bloodrager uses a breastplate (+6) and just deals with the 30' speed, but at starting gold, your best bet is four mirror or kikko, like Chess Pwn suggested.

Hide armor is no better than your chain shirt (they're both +4), so it reduces your speed for no benefit. (I really don't know why that armor exists other than flavor or maybe for druids, but it's really terrible.)

Pendergast's suggestion of the heavy shield (any material) is probably your best AC option, and you can just pick up the shield now without changing your chain shirt.

You can also fight defensively, if you get into real trouble: reduce your to-hit by 4 to get +2 AC.

It also exists for those games where you roll for starting wealth and the dice decide you're starting your barbarian career with 60 gold. Which also nixed the idea of a greatsword for me. Oh well.

Still, Barbarian is not the most defensive class there is. I would suggest watching how much rage you use (and when it drops on you), but otherwise level 1 is just kind'a tough in and of itself in many ways. At least that hit that took you to -1 didn't take a fellow party member to -3 at best (or -7 if it hit a squishy).

And don't forget the barbarian's traditional defence: KILL HURTY THINGY. What're you swinging at the enemies right now? And how much is it actually hurting them?


Qaianna wrote:
At least that hit that took you to -1 didn't take a fellow party member to -3 at best (or -7 if it hit a squishy)

Funny you mention this... The next round, our Half-Orc Warpriest dropped to -3... The rest of the party left us lying there until there was only one target left, who dropped before we could stand up.

Qaianna wrote:
Gwen Smith wrote:

Any medium armor is going to reduce your speed by 10', so just keep that in mind. My half-orc bloodrager uses a breastplate (+6) and just deals with the 30' speed, but at starting gold, your best bet is four mirror or kikko, like Chess Pwn suggested.

Hide armor is no better than your chain shirt (they're both +4), so it reduces your speed for no benefit. (I really don't know why that armor exists other than flavor or maybe for druids, but it's really terrible.)

Pendergast's suggestion of the heavy shield (any material) is probably your best AC option, and you can just pick up the shield now without changing your chain shirt.

You can also fight defensively, if you get into real trouble: reduce your to-hit by 4 to get +2 AC.

It also exists for those games where you roll for starting wealth and the dice decide you're starting your barbarian career with 60 gold. Which also nixed the idea of a greatsword for me. Oh well.

Still, Barbarian is not the most defensive class there is. I would suggest watching how much rage you use (and when it drops on you), but otherwise level 1 is just kind'a tough in and of itself in many ways. At least that hit that took you to -1 didn't take a fellow party member to -3 at best (or -7 if it hit a squishy).

And don't forget the barbarian's traditional defence: KILL HURTY THINGY. What're you swinging at the enemies right now? And how much is it actually hurting them?

I swing my Rhoka Sword +3 to hit for 1d8+2 damage with a crit of 18-20 X2 or TWF my Rhoka Sword and Swordbreaker Dagger +1/+1 for 1d8+2/1d4+1 and 18-20 X2/20 X2. I can also disarm at +5 or +7 vs bladed weapons, though I provoke when doing so.

Rage gives me +2 to melee attack and damage rolls, +2 to thrown weapon damage (Hunga Munga), +2 Will Saves, +2 temporary hitpoints per level, and -2 AC. Actually, I think I only used Rage once, during our final encounter for the night.


For early levels, I found reach weapon is pretty good with power attack and Combat Reflex. I killed many things with AoOs at early levels. Especially if you can rage. Your damage output should be pretty good, so with a Reach weapon, hardly anything can get to you at early levels. You shouldn't have to worry about AC other than fighting against ranged attacks. Which you should hard dropped prone and hide behind covers. Don't worry about armor so much, it's you or your team's tactic needs improve. Like if you have rogue should had worked out what you guess will have to fight against and planned ahead, etc. I played NPC expert class and I still can fight fairly well on front line with little armor, so Barbarian shouldn't have problems as you can drop enemies far quicker than any other melee classes at first level.


K-kun the Insane wrote:

What kind of armor would you suggest for a first level PFS Barbarian? My Tengu Unchained Pack Rager is in the middle of the Everflame module and I've fount that a Chain Shirt doesn't seem to cut it. AC is 16 (+4 armor, +2 dex) and that drops by 2 when I rage so I get hit easily. Our first encounter dropped me to -1 hp from a non crit (12 +2 con = 14).

Should I give up the 40ft move and go with medium armor instead?

I currently play a 23rd barbarian (homebrew epic rules). One thing I learned throught leveling with a barbarian : you shouldn't invest heavily on AC.

1/ At mid levels (higher with investment), chances are attacks will land. That is roll + enemy bonus will overpass your AC (melee/ranged builds of course, not anyone will pass your AC). AC is then only meant to avoid following attacks (for which, with full atk, you get a cumulative -5 to attack).

2/ When raging, your AC will drop and if you take feats to hit harder, counterpart is sometime to drop more of your AC. You charge, you loose another 2 to AC. So over-invest in AC.

3/ Barbarian is about HP and DR. Try to get them high as high as you can. I didn't do it with my actual barbarian but next build CON will be my first before STR. You get so much bonus to STR with class abilities, feats, rage, etc. 2 or 3 points in STR won't change a lot whereas 2 or 3 points in CON can change a lot (HP, Fort save)

4/ One point about AC is "Touch AC". You might want to get high for pesky spellcasters rays. Some rays are really no good at all and handling them will be tough if not impossible. At level 23rd, I can handle a maximized disintegrate but it still hurts ; I can't handle several in a few rounds. And it's only because I invested in feats to upgrade resistances, HP and bought right items.

I strongly suggest Invulnerable Rager archetype for barbarian. Crazy good one. With other feats investment, I'm actually closing to DR 20/-. With that kinda DR and about 450 HP I'm almost invulnerable in melee fights... and that makes me spellcasters favored target when they identify that.

If you play with mythic rulebook, there's a feat that doubles Toughness feat HP. Never used it but it's an option to consider.


For early level survival there's also the sweet Tribal Scars feat. Six HP and some minor bonuses on top (the +5 land speed or +1 will save are probably the best). The flavor clashes a bit with being a Tengu but if you put some effort into it you could sell people on Conan the Birdbarian.


While it won't come online yet, I have to agree with Zerion69 about the Invulnerable Rager archetype. DR anything/- is fun.

Looking at your build, I'm guessing your STR is 14 or 15, what with the +2 to damage on your sword. Whether TWF is a good thing is something I'll leave to others, but you may want to start swinging more often, and setting up for those full attacks. Yes, it's annoying to do, but it's part of two weapon fighting. And ouch on the feat cost.

Hm. +2 on all your physical stats, as far as bonuses. That's going to be a rough life no matter how you cut it, sadly. One thing to consider, though? Sword and board, perhaps. I know it's nice to disarm folks, but until that comes online you need to live long enough to pick up two feats to do it decently. A heavy shield is a decent +2 armour class, while a light is +1 and you can still whack someone with it if you're upset enough at them (at the cost of the bonus until you get Improved Shield Bash).

I also like the idea better than a swordbreaker dagger that's only good for d4+1 damage if you ever find yourself fighting Gallagher and his Sledge O Matic +2 watermelon-bane earthbreaker.


zerion69 wrote:
3/ Barbarian is about HP and DR. Try to get them high as high as you can. I didn't do it with my actual barbarian but next build CON will be my first before STR. You get so much bonus to STR with class abilities, feats, rage, etc. 2 or 3 points in STR won't change a lot whereas 2 or 3 points in CON can change a lot (HP, Fort save

Unfortunately, Pack Rager swaps out DR for the ability to hand out Teamwork Feats during Rage.

I had always planned on being a Pack Rager with this character despite having to wait until 7th level to truly come online.

Qaianna wrote:

While it won't come online yet, I have to agree with Zerion69 about the Invulnerable Rager archetype. DR anything/- is fun.

Looking at your build, I'm guessing your STR is 14 or 15, what with the +2 to damage on your sword. Whether TWF is a good thing is something I'll leave to others, but you may want to start swinging more often, and setting up for those full attacks. Yes, it's annoying to do, but it's part of two weapon fighting. And ouch on the feat cost.

Hm. +2 on all your physical stats, as far as bonuses. That's going to be a rough life no matter how you cut it, sadly. One thing to consider, though? Sword and board, perhaps. I know it's nice to disarm folks, but until that comes online you need to live long enough to pick up two feats to do it decently. A heavy shield is a decent +2 armour class, while a light is +1 and you can still whack someone with it if you're upset enough at them (at the cost of the bonus until you get Improved Shield Bash).

I also like the idea better than a swordbreaker dagger that's only good for d4+1 damage if you ever find yourself fighting Gallagher and his Sledge O Matic +2 watermelon-bane earthbreaker.

I'll look into having a shield, since my disarmingness doesn't fully kick in until I get Improved Disarm at 5th level. I suppose I can delay flying until either a later level or a later character that can make better use of it.

The Pack Rager is more of a teamplayer rather than a straight smasher. I wanted to try something different and the boon unlocking this archetype was just the thing. That's also why I chose the Swordbreaker as opposed to any other giant weapon Barbarians are known for.

It was actually going to be a Huge Swordbreaker Dagger, but I couldn't find a way to have proficiency without a feat, a high enough STR to overcome the -4 to hit, while still having the INT for Combat Expertise and decent melee stats.

His stats are:

Kalas Kukabara
CN Male Tengu
Unchained Pack Rager (Barbarian) 1

STR 14
DEX 15
CON 14
INT 13
WIS 12
CHA 9

Traits:
Weathered Emissary (+1 Linguistics & Survival; Linguistics is a class skill)
Tactician: (+1 Initiative; 1/day gain +2 on AoO roll.)

Feats:
Two-Weapon Fighting

FCB: 1 Skill Rank

HP 14 (1d12+2)
AC 16 (+4 armor, +2 dex)
Touch 12
Flat-Footed 14

Speed 40ft
Initiative +3

BAB +1
CMB +3
CMD 15

FORT +4
REF +2
WILL +1

Weapons:
Bite +3 (1d3+3 BSP) 20/x2
Rhoka Sword +3 (1d8+2 S) 18-20/x2
Swordbreaker Dagger +3 (1d4+2 S) 20/x2 [Disarm +5/+7 vs blades]
Hunga Munga +3 (1d6+2 P) 20/x2 15ft. 2 ammunition

Armor:
Chain Shirt (+4 armor, max dex +4, -2 armor check)

6/day Rage (+2 to melee attack and damage rolls, +2 to thrown weapon damage, +2 Will Saves, +2 temporary hitpoints per level, and -2 AC.)

Trained Skills:
Climb +4 (1+2+3-2)
Intimidate +3 (1-1+3)
Linguistics +6 (1+1+3+1)
Perception +5 (1+1+3)
Profession (Sailor) +2 (1+1)
Swim +4 (1+2+3-2)

Languages:
Taldane, Tengu, Tien, Kelish, Vudrani

Sorry it's so long, but you did ask about his stats and once I started I couldn't stop.

Two-Weapon Fighting requires 15 DEX while Combat Expertise requires 13 INT and is required for Improved Disarm. I'm not sure yet if I'll also go for Power Attack/Imroved Sunder, though if I do I'll make my Swordbreaker Adamantine.

I intend to make the Rhoka Sword a Keen Blood Crystal weapon, but that won't matter until my second Rage Power @ 8th level. Once I'm able to, I'll obtain a Shield of some kind (and maybe medium armor) to help me survive until my concepts come online.

I also may retrain Tactician into something else.

As for swinging more often, I'm used to it since my highest level character is a TWF Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple, so no problems there for my Barbarian beyond avoiding/surviving a hit to set up a full attack when they're farther than 5ft.

I guess it's just first level that I'm having trouble with 14 hp. Once i level up, I'll have 23 and should be able to take more hits. Or I'm just shaken from that first encounter since nothing else did close to that much damage.

Also (Module Spoilers):
Throwing a Shadow at low level characters (2 lvl2s and 4 lvl1s) is just plain mean. I had nothing to touch it let alone hurt it! Everyone else had something useful to do. Both Warpriests could make their weapons touch it, the Kineticist could shoot magic fire, the Suli (Magus I think) could Palpatine it, and the Bard could Inspire Courage. I still ran up and swung since while I knew about a Shadow's dangers, my character didn't. Any advice for dealing with Incorporeal creatures beyond getting a magic weapon ASAP?


I can only give you the advice that I took with my lvl 12 PFS barbarian, AC 12 when attacking all out. Not all will be applicable but it will give you a sense that AC is not everything and there are multiple ways to gain "Armor."

I feel that chasing AC can be a loosing battle for the Barbarian. The reason being is that there are a lot of ways that the barbarian looses AC to gain attack power. Rage=-2AC, Charge=-2AC, Reckless abandon=-PA to AC rather than to hit, Come and Get Me=-4AC equivalent, Enlarge Person=-1AC. These are the big negatives that my current barbarian build at lvl 12 has. So before I even decide on AC choices I know that my barbarian is taking -13 AC penalty while going full out. No amount of AC chasing is going to make up for that. It completely negates the iterative penalties that an enemy has.

So what do I do.
1) CON! - HP is your true friend as a Barbarian. I started with a 16.

2) Invulnerable rager - at lvl 12 my barbarian has DR6/- vs anything lethal and DR12/- vs non-lethal. This cuts down a lot on enemies that use many attacks rather than a big one.

3) Fortification - I do have armor. It's +1 agile breastplate. I then smacked an expensive moderate fortification on it. 50% crit negation is a big deal for barbs. It isn't that little hits that takes you down, its the big crit. Negating that saves your bacon.

4) Miss chance - I went with a cloak of displacement, minor. This gives me an always active 20% miss chance.

5) Combat negation - My barbarian utilizes Come and Get me. This allows me to take preemptive AoO everytime someone tries to attack me. These attacks are made BEFORE the enemy attack. I have combined this with dazing assault. Now I get to hit you @ my full BAB with a dazing attack (Fort DC22) before you get to hit me. Fail that save and your dazed for a round. You no longer get to complete your turn, you get no more attacks, and when my turn comes up again I am going to apply multiple more saves to that. A low fort save enemy can be effectively daze locked. If surrounded I can split up my attacks and attempt to daze lock multiple people while my allies finish them all off.


Lab_Rat wrote:

I can only give you the advice that I took with my lvl 12 PFS barbarian, AC 12 when attacking all out. Not all will be applicable but it will give you a sense that AC is not everything and there are multiple ways to gain "Armor."

I feel that chasing AC can be a loosing battle for the Barbarian. The reason being is that there are a lot of ways that the barbarian looses AC to gain attack power. Rage=-2AC, Charge=-2AC, Reckless abandon=-PA to AC rather than to hit, Come and Get Me=-4AC equivalent, Enlarge Person=-1AC. These are the big negatives that my current barbarian build at lvl 12 has. So before I even decide on AC choices I know that my barbarian is taking -13 AC penalty while going full out. No amount of AC chasing is going to make up for that. It completely negates the iterative penalties that an enemy has.

So what do I do.
1) CON! - HP is your true friend as a Barbarian. I started with a 16.

2) Invulnerable rager - at lvl 12 my barbarian has DR6/- vs anything lethal and DR12/- vs non-lethal. This cuts down a lot on enemies that use many attacks rather than a big one.

3) Fortification - I do have armor. It's +1 agile breastplate. I then smacked an expensive moderate fortification on it. 50% crit negation is a big deal for barbs. It isn't that little hits that takes you down, its the big crit. Negating that saves your bacon.

4) Miss chance - I went with a cloak of displacement, minor. This gives me an always active 20% miss chance.

5) Combat negation - My barbarian utilizes Come and Get me. This allows me to take preemptive AoO everytime someone tries to attack me. These attacks are made BEFORE the enemy attack. I have combined this with dazing assault. Now I get to hit you @ my full BAB with a dazing attack (Fort DC22) before you get to hit me. Fail that save and your dazed for a round. You no longer get to complete your turn, you get no more attacks, and when my turn comes up again I am going to apply multiple more saves to that. ...

I'm looking forward to setting this up too.

As far as handing out teamwork feats, that does look interesting. It's an alternate direction, and I do wish you luck on getting it to stick. More people need to see barbarians as clever and well-written :)


I can only agree with lasts posts :

- Aim at set defenses (Fortification, miss chances, DR) that are not affected by AC malus

- Fortification will be very important at high levels, not so for HP loss, but over level 12 (or so), critical hits can come with very bad side effects (as with sneak attack) ; pinnacle of that is vorpal weapons, only way to keep head over your shoulders is miss chance or fortification (mainly, I know there's special feats or powers to avoid but they might be hard to get)


I agree on most, i have a real dillema with dragon totem or a more manuver path.

Dragon totem offer :
+6 dr
X2 dr as resistance.
Minor flight.

Option 2:
Rage power unexpected strike with knockback and either knockdown or savage dirty trick and dazing assault.
Later, cone and get me and reflexes will join.
You ckne to attack me? I trip/bkind/bullrush you back. With str surge its not a hard cjexk....


IVe always seemed to have good luck with the Armored Hulk Barbarian.
I usually play them like a knight... the DM had a funny knick name for my last guy.
"Sturm Not-so-bright-Blade"
He wore Agile Half Plate and used raging leap to "death from above charge:"
He did it to an ettin.... it wasnt so bright.

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