Pixie, the Leng Queen |
Back in 3.5, the process to be a lich requires specific spells.
Well now, that is not a problem so we can create some interwting lichs.
So the question for you guys. What are some fun ideas you can think of to throw off the "oh its a lich! So it a powerful arcane caster (sorc, wiz, arcanist)" and mayne catch the party off guard while still being somewhat accurate (i.e. fighter lichs).
For instance:
Werewolf lichs
Seeing a lich in robes... only for it to charge at you with a sword (Kensai Magus lich)
Psychic lichs!!!! Hm... psychic demilichs hehe... psychic skull lol
Alchemist lichdom?... how would.ot ingest its elixors?... hm....
Jeraa |
Unless something has changed very recently, Pathfinder liches are the same as 3.5 liches.
Each lich must create its own phylactery by using the Craft Wondrous Item feat. The character must be able to cast spells and have a caster level of 11th or higher. The phylactery costs 120,000 gp to create and has a caster level equal to that of its creator at the time of creation.
Pixie, the Leng Queen |
Unless something has changed very recently, Pathfinder liches are the same as 3.5 liches.
Quote:Each lich must create its own phylactery by using the Craft Wondrous Item feat. The character must be able to cast spells and have a caster level of 11th or higher. The phylactery costs 120,000 gp to create and has a caster level equal to that of its creator at the time of creation.
So the only thing that eliminates is the Alchemist lich...
In 3.5 the phylactory had VERY SPECIFIC spells needed to craft it.
Jeraa |
In 3.5 the phylactory had VERY SPECIFIC spells needed to craft it.
Maybe in some third party book. The Monster Manual lich had the same requirements as the Pathfinder lich does (with the exception of an added experience point cost).
Each lich must make its own phylactery, which requires the Craft Wondrous Item feat. The character must be able to cast spells and have a caster level of 11th or higher. The phylactery costs 120,000 gp and 4,800 XP to create and has a caster level equal to that of its creator at the time of creation.
lemeres |
Unless something has changed very recently, Pathfinder liches are the same as 3.5 liches.
Quote:Each lich must create its own phylactery by using the Craft Wondrous Item feat. The character must be able to cast spells and have a caster level of 11th or higher. The phylactery costs 120,000 gp to create and has a caster level equal to that of its creator at the time of creation.
That still seems like it could create blood rager liches (no morale bonuses, but still all the weird bloodline stuff can be turned on)
Blackvial |
Jeraa wrote:That still seems like it could create blood rager liches (no morale bonuses, but still all the weird bloodline stuff can be turned on)Unless something has changed very recently, Pathfinder liches are the same as 3.5 liches.
Quote:Each lich must create its own phylactery by using the Craft Wondrous Item feat. The character must be able to cast spells and have a caster level of 11th or higher. The phylactery costs 120,000 gp to create and has a caster level equal to that of its creator at the time of creation.
actually there are undead barbarians that can rage and get the bonuses, take a look at the monster codex it has a vampire barbarian. So a bloodrager lich -I prefer the Graveknight template myself- is feasible
Pixie, the Leng Queen |
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A lich gnome bard?
Lol that is priceless...
DM: so you all bust into the xhamber.
From the darkness you see... what looks like the skeleton of gnome... this is the vile lich you have been sent to.destroy
*party rolls initiative*
*lich is first*
DM: you see the lich.... tapdance.. Fighter make a will save.
Fighter: *laughs hysterically*
DM: well it looks lime you and your fighter failed ypur save vs Hideous Laughter xD
Entryhazard |
Jeraa wrote:That still seems like it could create blood rager liches (no morale bonuses, but still all the weird bloodline stuff can be turned on)Unless something has changed very recently, Pathfinder liches are the same as 3.5 liches.
Quote:Each lich must create its own phylactery by using the Craft Wondrous Item feat. The character must be able to cast spells and have a caster level of 11th or higher. The phylactery costs 120,000 gp to create and has a caster level equal to that of its creator at the time of creation.
I'm on the phone thus it's hard to quote te exact text, but the Monster Codex introduced the rule that Undeads that can Rage keep the morale bonuses and the Con bonus instead goes to Cha
Knitifine |
I always find that half casters make for the most amusing liches.
Bard Lich? He sings you to death.
Inquisitor Lich? She is eternally hunting an even greater foe.
Summoner Lich? He enslaved a psychopomp who tried to stop his ritual.
Mesmer Lich? Look into her eye... sockets.
Reanimated Medium Lich? He's reanimating his own dead body, but not doing a very good job of it.
Blackvial |
I always find that half casters make for the most amusing liches.
Bard Lich? He sings you to death.
Inquisitor Lich? She is eternally hunting an even greater foe.
Summoner Lich? He enslaved a psychopomp who tried to stop his ritual.
Mesmer Lich? Look into her eye... sockets.
Reanimated Medium Lich? He's reanimating his own dead body, but not doing a very good job of it.
what about the hunter and the quarter casters?
Knitifine |
Knitifine wrote:what about the hunter and the quarter casters?I always find that half casters make for the most amusing liches.
Bard Lich? He sings you to death.
Inquisitor Lich? She is eternally hunting an even greater foe.
Summoner Lich? He enslaved a psychopomp who tried to stop his ritual.
Mesmer Lich? Look into her eye... sockets.
Reanimated Medium Lich? He's reanimating his own dead body, but not doing a very good job of it.
What about them? :3c
Baval |
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Aurelio 90 wrote:A lich gnome bard?Lol that is priceless...
DM: so you all bust into the xhamber.
From the darkness you see... what looks like the skeleton of gnome... this is the vile lich you have been sent to.destroy*party rolls initiative*
*lich is first*
DM: you see the lich.... tapdance.. Fighter make a will save.
Fighter: *laughs hysterically*
DM: well it looks lime you and your fighter failed ypur save vs Hideous Laughter xD
Sure its funny like that. But with the right dramatic flair....
"You crash into the room, but all you see is a dark room with a single light in the center illuminating the skeleton of a small child, or perhaps a gnome. The creature turns its gaze towards you.
Roll initiative. Creature is first.
Without breaking the gaze of its empty glowing eyesockets, the creature begins taping its bones against the ground, in a slow medley, picking up speed. As you listen to the rythmic tapping, you feel something pulling at your soul..."
Suddenly, spooky.
Weirdo |
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Our first pathfinder campaign featured an arcane archer lich. She used slaying arrows and some seriously deadly poison.
We also had a serious bard lich - a vain diva who as a lich preserved not just her life but the appearance of youth.
Oh and HUNTER LICHS!!! That would be weird...
Our arcane archer lich was thematically a hunter, just without the pet. While I expect most liches wouldn't want a living thing around, a verminous hunter lich with a giant mantis seems terribly cool to me. Or maybe a packmaster using a bunch of well-trained but expendable creatures as messengers and spies? After all, you can see through the eyes of any member of your pack.
captain yesterday |
haremlord |
So the only thing that eliminates is the Alchemist lich...
I know it's old, but I found this link.
Alchemist caster levels equal their alchemist level. Note we don't generally call it a "SPELLcaster level." Neither do we call it an "ELIXIRcaster level." The rules apply for all spell or spell-similar effects.
And now there's this
Spell Knowledge
Benefit(s) Select a single spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list that is at least 2 levels lower than your highest-level extract known. You can prepare and cast this spell as an arcane spell. Preparing the spell uses up an extract slot 1 level higher than the spell's level. Your caster level is equal to your alchemist level, and your save DCs and concentration checks are Intelligence-based. You're considered to have this spell on your spell list for purposes of prerequisites, spell completion items, and spell trigger items.You may select this discovery more than once. Each time, it grants you access to another spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list.
Which, according to this, allows:
It gives you a caster level and counts as a spell on your spell list for purposes of prerequisites. I'm not sure it's a *good* path to any PrCs (you're going to get a spell of any given level much later than true casting class), but I'd certainly assume you are considered a spellcaster.
While that calls out Prestige classes, it appears (at least to me) to mean all prereqs... so Alchemists could become liches.
James Jacobs Creative Director |
More to the point... the idea of an alchemist lich is cool, so they can indeed be.
But yeah... it's "caster" level, not "Spellcaster" or "Elixercaster" level.
Alchemist liches are legit. The line of text in the lich template that says that a character must be able to "cast spells" was written before the alchemist existed, but the idea of the alchemist's elixirs is not to deny it access to spellcasting options like lich templates. After all, the alchemist's Alchemy ability does come right out and say that the alchemist "casts" his spells by drinking the extract.
lemeres |
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I could see that being an interesting way of making an Accidental Lich.
Alchemist makes this strange concoction and downs it.. and suddenly is undead.
I think other accidents with the regular formula might be more interesting.
Think of a sorcerer that dumped int and forgot to carry the 2 while doing the rituals? What about an unintended phylactery?
What if the adventurers smash the jewel encrusted amulet sitting on the alter... and then a while later a flaming lich comes crawling out of the oven in the long abandoned kitchen in the back of the lair?
Maximilian Gaston |
Maximilian Gaston wrote:I could see that being an interesting way of making an Accidental Lich.
Alchemist makes this strange concoction and downs it.. and suddenly is undead.I think other accidents with the regular formula might be more interesting.
Think of a sorcerer that dumped int and forgot to carry the 2 while doing the rituals? What about an unintended phylactery?
What if the adventurers smash the jewel encrusted amulet sitting on the alter... and then a while later a flaming lich comes crawling out of the over in the long abandoned kitchen in the back of the lair?
I think it would be funny if a Alchemist accidentally became a lich and either their Homunculus became the Phlactery or the potion bottle they just chugged did. Would be kind of interesting for that party of adventurers who have to loot everything not bolted down to wake up in the morning and their Alchemist's bag is suddenly a heck of a lot heavier with that torso in it.
Dreaming Psion |
Fun fact: before the spell-like ability errata ruling out SLAs counting for preqs, the lowest CR lich that I could find was a barbazu/Bearded Devil. (greater teleport at 12th level, CR 5 base +2 template= CR 7). The lowest CR lich I can think of now is a kobold adept 11 (CR 9 base - 1 kobold +2 template = 10).
Blackvial |
More to the point... the idea of an alchemist lich is cool, so they can indeed be.
But yeah... it's "caster" level, not "Spellcaster" or "Elixercaster" level.
Alchemist liches are legit. The line of text in the lich template that says that a character must be able to "cast spells" was written before the alchemist existed, but the idea of the alchemist's elixirs is not to deny it access to spellcasting options like lich templates. After all, the alchemist's Alchemy ability does come right out and say that the alchemist "casts" his spells by drinking the extract.
you have made me a very happy man
lemeres |
I think it would be funny if a Alchemist accidentally became a lich and either their Homunculus became the Phlactery or the potion bottle they just chugged did. Would be kind of interesting for that party of adventurers who have to loot everything not bolted down to wake up in the morning and their Alchemist's bag is suddenly a heck of a lot heavier with that torso in it.
Combining ideas...how about the cauldren he brewed the potion in?
...great, now I am remembering a Something Positive comic arc where they had a fantasy/western campaign where they had to stop a former Cofederate General from using a magical cauldren that would allow him to have the South Rise again...from their graves.