Any official stance on whether round 1 of detect evil is limited to auras or not?


Rules Questions


Detect Evil, round 1 says "Detect the presence/absence of evil"

Not "evil auras" just "evil". Compare to Detect Magic, which DOES specify "detect presence/absence of magical auras" making it seem more intentional the difference.

Why it matters: let's say you have a level 4 character in front of you who is a serial killer and murders and skins babies to wear as suits in his free time, then reanimates them to improve his skin suit disco dancing skills.

I cast detect evil on this fellow, he is the only person in front of me in an empty, neutral field. If you take the spell literally at its word, then round 1 I should detect the presence of evil. Round 2, I should detect no auras.

Versus if it's supposed to only detect auras, then round 1, I would detect nothing.

Is there a FAQ or errata on this or any developer statements or whatever, or is it just purely house rule?


There's existing topics on this, granted they don't get any official ruling. That said I think most people tend to say that it only detects evil auras, since that's the only way detect evil could see anything evil. This means that it would not detect anything intelligent creature aligned evil if it was 4th level or lower.

Personally, I don't like the alignment system in the game at all though, so indirectly I dislike this spell because of it, but that's aside the point.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

A person who's that evil, pings on the old Paladin radar... case closed.

The rules are not meant to be followed robotically, they ARE intended to be adjusted as circumstances demand. The person you describe is an out of the ordinary person. If you're evil enough to make a demon gag, you get to ping no matter whether you've got an aura or not.


LazarX wrote:
A person who's that evil, pings on the old Paladin radar... case closed.

No, not at all. That's your opinion. Your single opinion does not mean case closed. What's evil is also subjective to different people.

Quote:
The rules are not meant to be followed robotically, they ARE intended to be adjusted as circumstances demand. The person you describe is an out of the ordinary person. If you're evil enough to make a demon gag, you get to ping no matter whether you've got an aura or not.

GM can do what they want, but they should state in advance what sort of rules they are using when they do so.

I'm not saying that there should flat up be nothing detected, but just that the rules aren't clear, and the GM should make things clear.


No, you would simply detect nothing. Level 4 and lower characters who aren't paladins/clerics/etc just don't show off anything.


Joesi wrote:
LazarX wrote:
A person who's that evil, pings on the old Paladin radar... case closed.
No, not at all. That's your opinion. Your single opinion does not mean case closed. What's evil is also subjective to different people.

Except in game, it isn't. Within the game, evil is a tangible, detectiable thing (obviously due to the spell). It is a literal force of the universe, and some of the other adjacent universes (hell, abyss, abbadon all are literally made of evil).

It is practically like saying "you have a positive charge". It is as much of the game's universe as gravity, magnetism, etc.

Anyway...yeah, for humanoids, they usually don't have auras until level 5. Before then, they test negative.


Which means it takes until about level 3 before the party paladin detecting evil on everything starts netting consistent results. Protection spells don't have a aura stipulation though.

A simple house rule is to have alignment work as "intent" instead of "the world is bound to a concept of cartoony evil because the mechanics say so". If you like it, then you remove a meta game resource (is this evil? I want my +2 AC) and suddenly your paladin smites only work when the creature in question intends harm and he has to think if things are so clear cut.

Grand Lodge

Oh? What if that person wants to kill the Paladin, intends to do it, but never gets around to it, or works up the courage.

Maybe, he never kills anyone, ever. Maybe, he just thinks about how he really wants to kill the Paladin, whenever the Paladin is around.

Grand Lodge

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Oh? What if that person wants to kill the Paladin, intends to do it, but never gets around to it, or works up the courage.

Maybe, he never kills anyone, ever. Maybe, he just thinks about how he really wants to kill the Paladin, whenever the Paladin is around.

I could have sworn that that was the constant status of any non-Paladin stuck in the orbit of a Paladin.

Also, for the Paladin, remember:

There are certain spells that someone could be subject to that make them ping, temporarily, as Evil, even if they aren't. (Infernal Healing, for example)

Someone with some cursed items, or under certain kinds of curses, or even spell effects, might ping as evil when they aren't.

How about the subject of a magic jar? Caster is evil, but the person who is controlled may have been anything.

Is it an evil act to smite evil and killed the body of someone who was magic jarred?

Grand Lodge

A Wizard, walking around healing hurt children, with his wand of Infernal Healing.

A Paladin, wondering why he can't smite the children.

Grand Lodge

blackbloodtroll wrote:

A Wizard, walking around healing hurt children, with his wand of Infernal Healing.

A Paladin, wondering why he can't smite the children.

Actually, from what I understand, he could smite the children. And, as long as they are still under the effect of Infernal Healing, he will get the extra smite damage and AC bonus against them.

Of course, this is a trap smite, and could, easily, cause the Paladin to fall, losing all Paladin abilities, which should include any active smites.


Nope, infernal healing causes you to ping on detect only (and make you feel yucky). No actual "bonus vs evil" would trigger.


Bob Bob Bob wrote:
Nope, infernal healing causes you to ping on detect only (and make you feel yucky). No actual "bonus vs evil" would trigger.

Although, if they happened to be redeemed Succubus children...


It might be that i have acquired a non-murderhobo perspective over the last year, by playing Kingmaker.

The thing is if a Paladin would start smiting citizens you wouldnt believe how fast he would be branded a "Extremist Criminal" and hunted down to be hanged for murder. He might even die with all his Paladin-abilities still working.

Doesnt matter that the dude he suddenly beheaded in the street was a wifebeater- still unprovoked Murder.

Doesnt matter that the meatmerchant he stabbed to death just outside the citygates, coming home from a supply run, did indeed sell rancid meat that she just had made tasty with Prestidigitation and even people got sick from it - still unprovoked Murder.

Doesnt matter that the LE cleric of Abadar he killed in a bar was a cold-hearted Bastard who refused to hand out food to starving peple, because they were followers of Erastil, and not Abadar, if they couldnt pay - still unprovoked Murder.

Neither of these evil people would have deserved the death penalty. And handing out any sentence is the absolute prerogative of the rulers in their own lands. He should have reported them if he thinks they are up to something. And with some concrete proof, otherwise you open up the gates for slander. They would have been investigated.

You cant have a prospering, orderly society where the citizens feel safe (and do good business to be able to pay more taxes) if you have extremists running around killing people who's moral/political standpoint doesnt please them.

-

And this is independent on how relatively easy it is to fool these Level 1 detect abilities. Just let someone you cant stand ping evil and point the smite-happy Paladin in their direction.


Guru-Meditation wrote:

It might be that i have acquired a non-murderhobo perspective over the last year, by playing Kingmaker.

The thing is if a Paladin would start smiting citizens you wouldnt believe how fast he would be branded a "Extremist Criminal" and hunted down to be hanged for murder. He might even die with all his Paladin-abilities still working.

Doesnt matter that the dude he suddenly beheaded in the street was a wifebeater- still unprovoked Murder.

Doesnt matter that the meatmerchant he stabbed to death just outside the citygates, coming home from a supply run, did indeed sell rancid meat that she just had made tasty with Prestidigitation and even people got sick from it - still unprovoked Murder.

Doesnt matter that the LE cleric of Abadar he killed in a bar was a cold-hearted Bastard who refused to hand out food to starving peple, because they were followers of Erastil, and not Abadar, if they couldnt pay - still unprovoked Murder.

Neither of these evil people would have deserved the death penalty. And handing out any sentence is the absolute prerogative of the rulers in their own lands. He should have reported them if he thinks they are up to something. And with some concrete proof, otherwise you open up the gates for slander. They would have been investigated.

You cant have a prospering, orderly society where the citizens feel safe (and do good business to be able to pay more taxes) if you have extremists running around killing people who's moral/political standpoint doesnt please them.

-

And this is independent on how relatively easy it is to fool these Level 1 detect abilities. Just let someone you cant stand ping evil and point the smite-happy Paladin in their direction.

I like this.

Evil doesn't necessarily mean you are a bad person... I've played evil people who were LOVED in the community, they just secretly stole corpses, animated them and used the skeletons for free labour... went adventuring and straight up committed genocide (on evil races) and countless other things that would be called 'evil'. But they never betrayed their community, gave freely of their wealth, healed the sick... it's nice to have a population base of innocents to hide behind when the 'good' people come knocking. :D


Smite Evil: "If the paladin targets a creature that is not evil, the smite is wasted with no effect."
Infernal Healing on a otherwise "good" creature would ping evil, but a smite would be wasted.

Detect Evil: "1st Round: Presence or absence of evil."
I would say they do not detect the evil of the bad guy since he is not sufficiently evil to have an aura. Unless there was an evil aura within range (either high level, aura class, or subtype), no evil would be detected.

Since the greatest level of detection is at 3 rounds, and it only finds auras, I would say a single round can only say at least one aura is in range or no aura is in range.

Note [2] on the table is "Some characters who are not clerics may radiate an aura of equivalent power. The class description will indicate whether this applies." The bad guy mentioned might fit this category and ping as a concentrated evil generating an aura.

/cevah


Any Paladin who just randomly attacks people with the justification of 'I thought he was evil' should, at the very least, be locked up for being insane.

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