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Telekinetic Finesse
Element(s) aether; Type utility (Sp); Level 1; Burn 0
You can perform any sort of fine manipulation you choose within close range, including attempting Sleight of Hand and Disable Device checks.
Duration: How long does this ability last? Is it a permanent use that then allows you to perform various "manipulations" until cancelled? Does it last for the entirety of your turn? Does it only allow for a single "manipulation" and then end?
Distance/Movement: What is the limit of movement of the "manipulation"? Can you use Sleight of Hand to pick someone's pocket within close range from one side of the room and then move the object over to someone on the other side of the room also within my close range? Would all of that movement be one Sleight of Hand check to remain unnoticed, or will the item moving across the room be very noticeable to everyone in the room?
Weight/Size: Is there a limit on the size or weight of the object of "manipulation"?
Line of Sight: Using Sleight of Hand implies you are "targeting" objects outside of your Line of Sight. Is this true?
Basic Telekinesis: Is this ability meant to have any interaction with Basic Telekinesis?
Please let me know if I've missed any other possible ambiguities of this talent.
This got less clear with the final editing. When comparing it to the playtest document, it's clear that this modifies basic TK and the other TK powers of the kineticist. So you'd use that for weight limits, range, etc.
Out of curiosity, can someone post the playtest version?
I know the playtest was in my downloads at one point, but it's not there now.
from the playtest pdf:
TELEKINETIC FINESSE
Element aether; Type Sp; Level 1; Burn 0
Prerequisites kineticist level 1st, light touch
Your control of your telekinesis has improved to the point that
you can perform any fine manipulation you choose within close
range, even Sleight of Hand and Disable Device checks.
note: light touch was the name for the mage hand ability at that point.
It has 0 burn, so i'd say its just a modifier to your existing basic telekinesis wild talent.
Almost all of the utilities are 0 burn. Do you think TK Maneuvers is also based off Basic TK?
It has 0 burn, so i'd say its just a modifier to your existing basic telekinesis wild talent.Almost all of the utilities are 0 burn. Do you think TK Maneuvers is also based off Basic TK?
Telekinetic maneuvers explicitly refers to telekinesis spell.
FAQ'd!
I'd also like to know what kind of action it is. In particular, if you have the Disable Device skill unlock (and/or the Astounding Disable mythic path ability), does that effect this or does it still require a standard action to activate, possibly in addition to the time it would take to disable the trap/open the lock?
It doesn't mention this, but would it have the same penalty as the Ranged Legerdemain Arcane Trickster ability ("Working at a distance increases the normal skill check DC by 5, and an arcane trickster cannot take 10 on this check.")? I assume not since it wasn't mentioned, but just out of curiosity...
Thanks for the points haremlord. I never really considered how TK Finesse and Disable Device operate together:
Most Disable Device checks take longer than one round. So, do you need to "cast" TK Finesse every round to finish the check? Or does one "cast" always last long enough for the duration of a single check?
Personally, I'd really like it if TK Finesse didn't take an action on it's own. I had an idea for my Telekineticist to have a rock that he keeps rotating around his head just to fool people into thinking he has an iuon stone and therefore must be a wizard :)
Looking at other utility talents it looks like an 'always on' ability. It would be an inherent part of the action you are trying to accomplish. So keeping a rock orbiting your head would probably require a move action each round (manipulate an item) maybe more.
It doesn't have a weight limit stated unlike basic TK so can only move items of inconsequential weight (maybe up to .5lb if you are feeling generous). You can use it with basic TK though to finely manipulate heavier objects.
It is not an attack so it seems you need Line of effect, not necessarily LoS. So you should be able to open a belt pouch and remove the contents. (I'm a little less sure on this, but LoS seems to affect ranged attacks, LoE is the equivalent for spells - which this is closer too)
Using it doesn't turn the item invisible or anything so getting an object from one side of the room to another could well require another sleight of hand (or maybe stealth?) check. That would heavily depend on circumstances and subject to GM adjudication. I can envision circumstances where just one check would be sufficient, and others requiring more.
Does anyone know if there were ever any clarifications on these questions?
I was just about to bump this since there's a good chance I'll finally be playing my telekineticist soon :)
Out of curiosity, can someone post the playtest version?No. Given that the playtest period is over I think distributing the playtest document, which is substantially the same as the final product, would fall under copyright infringement.
That's not how copyright infringement works... The playtest document was released under the OGL, which gives you certain rights, including:
4. Grant and Consideration: In consideration for agreeing to use this License, the Contributors grant You a perpetual, worldwide, royaltyfree, non-exclusive license with the exact terms of this License to Use, the Open Game Content.
Now you could argue that re-posting a playtest doc would spread confusion or whatnot, but it is not a copyright violation.
Know your rights :)
FAQ'd as I am currently rolling a telekineticst myself. Happy New Year all. :)
I'm bumping because I believe I'm finally playing my Telekineticist this weekend :D
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I suggest taking a look at that the skills referenced and use that for the weight limit.
As for range, mage hand seems reasonable.
It is stated that wild talents are used as a standard action unless other wise stated. So if you wanted to use it to something for 3 rounds you would to continue to activate the talent each round in as a standard action.
I suggest taking a look at that the skills referenced and use that for the weight limit.
As for range, mage hand seems reasonable.
It is stated that wild talents are used as a standard action unless other wise stated. So if you wanted to use it to something for 3 rounds you would to continue to activate the talent each round in as a standard action.
But, correct me if I'm wrong, if something takes 3 rounds, that takes up all of your actions for 3 rounds to do it, right? So wouldn't requiring spending a standard action each round to use it then increase the time to 3 rounds + 3 standard actions, so 6 rounds?
I'd at least like an idea of the original intent, because an official answer may never come. Not sure how discouraged Mark is from answering questions like that though.
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I'd at least like an idea of the original intent, because an official answer may never come. Not sure how discouraged Mark is from answering questions like that though.
Not discouraged, in this case, so much as unable to answer everything. Rushley has the right idea with his answers; it's like basic telekinesis, but now with more options. And an answer to an unasked question: Since it isn't literally basic telekinesis, telekinetic haul wouldn't apply. This was one of several talents where shaving off enough words to save a line hurt, and I'm glad that the community has been so great about working together with each other on any of those that have been unclear (the opposite of being discouraged, I'm encouraged by how little rancor these kineticist wild talent threads usually have, even among those with different opinions!). I was afraid that the copyfitting might have created even more ambiguities than we've seen so far, but I also wasn't willing to cut any wild talent options (as is, I'm working to, slowly, add more!)
Rushley has the right idea with his answers; it's like basic telekinesis, but now with more options. And an answer to an unasked question: Since it isn't literally basic telekinesis, telekinetic haul wouldn't apply.
And, I assume, neither would Extended Range and Extreme Range, even tho they do effect Basic TK?
Or, since those two talents are mentioned in Basic TK as having an effect (whereas TK Haul is mentioned in it's own description as having an effect on Basic TK) they WOULD work?
And what about the action required to use it? Does it add one standard action to the length of time required for the action, does it take a minimum of one standard action to a maximum of the length of time required for the action, or is it PART of the time required for the action? :D
THANKS!
Thanks for the quick response Mark.
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But, correct me if I'm wrong, if something takes 3 rounds, that takes up all of your actions for 3 rounds to do it, right? So wouldn't requiring spending a standard action each round to use it then increase the time to 3 rounds + 3 standard actions, so 6 rounds?I suggest taking a look at that the skills referenced and use that for the weight limit.
As for range, mage hand seems reasonable.
It is stated that wild talents are used as a standard action unless other wise stated. So if you wanted to use it to something for 3 rounds you would to continue to activate the talent each round in as a standard action.
That is not how I would do it. I see it as taking the standard action for 3 rounds. You still have the move action to do other things.
Personally, I'd really like it if TK Finesse didn't take an action on it's own. I had an idea for my Telekineticist to have a rock that he keeps rotating around his head just to fool people into thinking he has an iuon stone and therefore must be a wizard :)
Why would anyone assume that? Anyone can use ioun stones after all.
Personally, I'd really like it if TK Finesse didn't take an action on it's own. I had an idea for my Telekineticist to have a rock that he keeps rotating around his head just to fool people into thinking he has an iuon stone and therefore must be a wizard :)Why would anyone assume that? Anyone can use ioun stones after all.
Ah, but he has a pointy hat and a beard, so... wizard!
And I haven't seen any official pictures of characters that had floaty stuff around them except for spellcasters, even tho fighters can use them.
Open Locks: The DC for opening a lock depends on its quality. If you do not have a set of thieves' tools, these DCs increase by 10.
Does the +10 to the DC apply when using Disable Device in this way? Or are the aethereal strands supposed to be a complete substitute for them?
I think I've actually seen Mark suggest in another thread that you can somehow use thieves tools with TK Finesse. Maybe you finesse your thieves tools to the lock and then use them through TK Finesse to perform your Disable Device check?
Maybe, if we're really lucky Mark can chime in with the intent. Unfortunately, TK Finesse is the sort of thing that could take paragraphs of rules text and still not cover every instance.
My question:
Do you still need to use tools when opening locks/disabling traps? If so, do you basically throw your tools out and they do their magic then return to your hand?
Weirdo's answer:
3) You need tools - it is much like making the check normally except you would manipulate the tools mentally. This talent simply gives you fine telekinetic control over objects.
Mark's reply:
Agreed with Weirdo, except question 3 itself has a built in assumption that is slightly off you could do (3) without tools, just at a big penalty.
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It doesn't mention this, but would it have the same penalty as the Ranged Legerdemain Arcane Trickster ability ("Working at a distance increases the normal skill check DC by 5, and an arcane trickster cannot take 10 on this check.")? I assume not since it wasn't mentioned, but just out of curiosity...
Does anyone have any other thoughts on this? I'm wondering if finesse is worth taking if I need to add 5 to the DC everytime I use it.