The tusked trait states "you receive a bite attack (1d4 damage for Medium characters). If used as part of a full attack action, the bite attack is made at your full base attack bonus –5." If I make a standard attack with the bite, I assume I add full STR modifier to damage as usual.
If I make a full attack, the fact that the bite attack is made at BAB-5 implies that it behaves as a secondary natural attack? It doesn't say so in the description, but what's the consensum? I'm asking because if that's the case, I could only add 1/2 STR bonus to the bite damage, and the damage bonus from Power Attack would also be halved, correct?
Thanks a lot in advance for your input!
Do you mean that if in the full attack I use other natural attacks (such as claws) instead of manufactured weapons there would be no penalty neither to STR nor to the attack bonus? A normal additional primary natural attack seems quite OP for a trait, doesn't it?
I maybe should not do this, but I look at Toothy (Racial Trait), Tusked (Trait, Race), and Razortusk (Feat) as the same type of ability with different means of how to get there depending on what you want to spend to get it.
Toothy - Some half-orcs' tusks are large and sharp, granting a bite attack. This is a primary natural attack that deals 1d4 points of piercing damage. This racial trait replaces orc ferocity.
Tusked - Requirement(s) Half-Orc, Orc
Benefit(s) Huge, sharp tusks bulge from your mouth, and you receive a bite attack (1d4 damage for Medium characters). If used as part of a full attack action, the bite attack is made at your full base attack bonus –5.
Razortusk - Prerequisite: Half-orc.
Benefit: You can make a bite attack for 1d4 points of damage, plus your Strength modifier. You’re considered proficient in this attack and can apply feats or effects appropriate to natural attacks to it. If used as part of a full attack action, the bite is considered a secondary attack and is made at your full base attack bonus –5, and adds half your Strength modifier to damage.
Only Razortusk really goes into the idea that this is a secondary attack and so if used as part of a full action attack then the strength modifier is halved. If it is used as an attack action then it is full strength modifier. I think that lacking anything in print by Paizo on this that I would treat them all like that. A feat is the most expensive way to get it in my opinion so it should not be inferior to a racial trait or a trait.
Many will argue the RAW side and say that they are different and should be treated as such. To them I just shrug and let them go there own way.
Edit: I forgot that you can also get this with the barbarian rage power Animal Fury.
Animal Fury (Ex) - Benefit: While raging, the barbarian gains a bite attack. If used as part of a full attack action, the bite attack is made at the barbarian's full base attack bonus –5. If the bite hits, it deals 1d4 points of damage (assuming the barbarian is Medium; 1d3 points of damage if Small) plus half the barbarian's Strength modifier. A barbarian can make a bite attack as part of the action to maintain or break free from a grapple. This attack is resolved before the grapple check is made. If the bite attack hits, any grapple checks made by the barbarian against the target this round are at a +2 bonus.
While I can see where Torbyne is coming from and that is a perfectly valid interpretation, I believe you might see table variance on this and I would suggest running it past your GM before building the character.
A strict reading of the trait will always impose a -5 penalty when you use it as part of a full attack. This may have been written intentionally to balance a trait giving a natural attack, or it may be a summary like Torbyne said.
From reading it, I get the idea that it should be treated as a secondary bite attack. Orcs/half orcs don't primarily attack with their teeth, so it makes sense
If it is the only natural attack the character gets and is not used in conjunction with weapons, it gets 1 1/2 str and is treated as primary
If it is used as part of a full attack with manufactered weapons or additional natural attacks, it gets 1/2 str at BAB -5.
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I see it like Torbyne.
All different pathes to the same goal: a natural attack.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Correct, treat the bite as a standard bite natural attack. primary when used alone or with other natural attacks. secondary with all normal penalties when used with manufactured weapons. to do otherwise places the option in an weird, undefined third category.
+1
Don't break out the 3rd category bread.
*snip*Edit: I forgot that you can also get this with the barbarian rage power Animal Fury.
Animal Fury (Ex) - Benefit: While raging, the barbarian gains a bite attack. If used as part of a full attack action, the bite attack is made at the barbarian's full base attack bonus –5. If the bite hits, it deals 1d4 points of damage (assuming the barbarian is Medium; 1d3 points of damage if Small) plus half the barbarian's Strength modifier. A barbarian can make a bite attack as part of the action to maintain or break free from a grapple. This attack is resolved before the grapple check is made. If the bite attack hits, any grapple checks made by the barbarian against the target this round are at a +2 bonus.
This is actually cleared up in Unchained.
Animal Fury (Ex): The barbarian gains a bite attack. This is a primary natural attack that deals 1d4 points of damage (if the barbarian is Medium; 1d3 if the barbarian is Small) plus the barbarian's Strength modifier. If made as part of a full-attack action with manufactured weapons, the bite attack is made at the barbarian's full base attack bonus – 5, and she adds only 1/2 her Strength modifier to the damage roll. The barbarian can make a bite attack as part of the action to maintain or break free from a grapple. If the bite attack hits, grapple checks attempted by the barbarian against the target until the end of the round gain a +2 bonus.
Reading this and earlier, I think most of the writers were assuming 'full attack' as 'chomp plus swing weapons'; in these cases, natural weapons are treated as secondary. But if your orc found him- or herself unarmed save for Razortusk or any of the other traits? Or perhaps the kitsune bard left her rapier at home? Chow down!
So wait, just let me get this straight: Even if you get it from three different sources, you only get one bite attack? Not say, three separate bite attacks from each of the sources (Tusked, Toothy, and Razortusk)?
....yes, that is correct...is this a serious question?
Unless you somehow manage to acquire a second mouth and set of jaws, yes, you only get one bite attack.
yes, that is correct...is this a serious question?I'm sure it was serious. Every PC has teeth in their mouth and fingers and toes.
Now lets not jump to conclusions here, I don't think Tengu have teeth or toes (beak and talons).
Also, what if you wanna play a venerable human caster for the +3 INT/WIS/CHA? They might not have teeth...
I'm nitpicking. Sorry.
If your venerable human was adopted by Orcs he might have tusks and no teeth though.yes, that is correct...is this a serious question?I'm sure it was serious. Every PC has teeth in their mouth and fingers and toes.Now lets not jump to conclusions here, I don't think Tengu have teeth or toes (beak and talons).
Also, what if you wanna play a venerable human caster for the +3 INT/WIS/CHA? They might not have teeth...
I'm nitpicking. Sorry.
...and I would call him Gummy Joe.
off topic, but here goes:
We have a half-orc with the alternate racial trait that grants him the tusks... he described them as huge lower tusks so big they come up and block his line of sight, he only has peripheral vision.
No mechanical penalty, but TONS of roleplaying hilarity.
"Who said that?"
"Guys, what's going on?"
"I haven't seen my _insert random body part name here_ in years"
good times...
yes, that is correct...is this a serious question?I'm sure it was serious. Every PC has teeth in their mouth and fingers and toes.Now lets not jump to conclusions here, I don't think Tengu have teeth or toes (beak and talons).
Also, what if you wanna play a venerable human caster for the +3 INT/WIS/CHA? They might not have teeth...
I'm nitpicking. Sorry.
You forgot to add merfolk. No legs, feet or toes there...
You forgot to add merfolk. No legs, feet or toes there...yes, that is correct...is this a serious question?I'm sure it was serious. Every PC has teeth in their mouth and fingers and toes.Now lets not jump to conclusions here, I don't think Tengu have teeth or toes (beak and talons).
Also, what if you wanna play a venerable human caster for the +3 INT/WIS/CHA? They might not have teeth...
I'm nitpicking. Sorry.
Indeed.
Or Peggy, the double peg-legged pirate. Granted, she's got her teeth, but her legs were taken from her years ago by a stray cannonball.
Stumping about with the greatest of ease... yo ho...