Official Source for Item CLs?


Rules Questions


I'm having the old standby loot-debate in my Runelords game:

GM: "You find a Wand of Shocking Grasp."
Player: "Sweet! It does 5d6 per charge because you have to be fifth level to craft a wand."
GM: "No, it's a CL1 item."
Player: "Nuh-uh, or else the book is wrong. You HAVE to be level 5 to create the wand, and the crafter has to cast the spell into it during creation. Says so right here (Core Rulebook). So it does 5d6."

I don't need this headache. Please point me to the official errata or FAQ that formally declares that a crafted spell-casting item can (and usually does) have a lower CL than the level required to create it. I need the words "The crafter can choose the CL of the item being created."

I don't need a rationale or argument to use; I need a Commandment From On High. A stamp of authority from an official God of Paizo would help.


From the Magic Item Creation chapter:

Quote:
A creator can create an item at a lower caster level than her own, but never lower than the minimum level needed to cast the needed spell.

It's in the CRB.


Bless you. My powergamers will now retreat, lick their wounds, and begin searching for another exploit.

AKA, business as usual... *grin*


Your player's being deliberately obtuse in one sense. I don't completely disagree with the logic, but then, I disagree with spell completion items being usable by casters that don't have any spellcasting ability at all (paladins and rangers before 4th or 5th level, among others).

Rules wrote:


Prices assume that the wand was made at the minimum caster level. The cost to create a wand is half the base price.

More importantly,

Rules wrote:


A creator can create an item at a lower caster level than her own, but never lower than the minimum level needed to cast the needed spell.

Here's the reply: how do you think you're able to buy wands of cure light wounds at a caster level of 1st for 750 gp? By his own logic, there are none. So either the group can access CL 1st wands for 750 gp, or they can't. Make it his call if you want to be mean about it. The rest of the group can give him a sock party in thanks. ;)

Wands and scrolls as scripted loot unless the treasure description states otherwise are always at the minimum caster level. If the wand was at the higher caster level, does the player seriously think that the person whose corpse they just looted wouldn't have been deep frying them like so many pieces of batter-dipped chicken?

Edit: ninja'd.


Turin the Mad wrote:
Your player's being deliberately obtuse in one sense. I don't completely disagree with the logic, but then, I disagree with spell completion items being usable by casters that don't have any spellcasting ability at all (paladins and rangers before 4th or 5th level, among others).

No problem there, it's a low-level wizard. He just wants a 5d6 Shocking Grasp instead of his normal 1d6.

Quote:
Here's the reply: how do you think you're able to buy wands of cure light wounds at a caster level of 1st for 750 gp?

Oh, you have to be expecting this... "Since a wand has to be CL5, my 750 gp wand of CLW should be curing us for 1d8+5 per charge! Or else the book is wrong."


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Calybos1 wrote:
Turin the Mad wrote:
Your player's being deliberately obtuse in one sense. I don't completely disagree with the logic, but then, I disagree with spell completion items being usable by casters that don't have any spellcasting ability at all (paladins and rangers before 4th or 5th level, among others).

No problem there, it's a low-level wizard. He just wants a 5d6 Shocking Grasp instead of his normal 1d6.

Quote:
Here's the reply: how do you think you're able to buy wands of cure light wounds at a caster level of 1st for 750 gp?

Oh, you have to be expecting this... "Since a wand has to be CL5, my 750 gp wand of CLW should be curing us for 1d8+5 per charge! Or else the book is wrong."

"Ah, I see, so that wand actually cost you (750x5x1) 3,750 gp. Looks like you need to save up. And only buy them in small cities. Enjoy!"

Grand Lodge

Tell him that whoever made the wand didn't cast the spell himself. He used a scroll or his first level wizard spell because they don't have to cast the spell themselves (in addition to what was already pointed out).


You should also point out this from the Magic Item Creation Rules:

Quote:
50 charges, spell trigger Spell level × caster level × 750 gp example: Wand of fireball

The cost is spell level * caster level * 750. So, a wand of shocking grasp cannot be made with a low minimum caster level than the spell could be cast, which is caster level 1. The spell is first level, so the wand casts 750 gold. If we were to have a 5th caster level wand, it would cost 3750 (or half to craft it). As the GM, you get to decide what an item dropped is including it's caster level (so long as it doesn't go below the minimum required).

So, he could craft a higher caster level wand, but the price makes it prohibitive.

And yes, the general assumption is that all items for sale are usually crafted at the lowest possible caster level. You could request someone to make it at a higher one, but you're not generally going to find one.

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