Kinetic Fist Wild Talent - Kineticist


Advice


Hey all, is there any way to make this Wild Talent worth getting? At its very best, how does it fare against a monk? I have a very high Dex, Weapon Finesse, and am thinking of taking Improved Unarmed and the Fist, but want to make sure I'm getting the most out of it if I do this.


I find the thought that it adds 1d6 damage to all your natural attacks somewhat appealing. Also Natural attacks aren't overly buggered by your medium BAB progression.

The best race for natural attacks seems to be the Tengu sadly it has a con penalty but a WIS bonus so it might work out well with the monk archetype.


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Playing an Elemental Ascetic reduces the cost of Kinetic Fist to 0 Burn at level 1, though you give up all blasting.

The only way I can see Kinetic Fist really working is with TWF and/or multiple riders on each attack. The damage per hour isn't that great. A basic blast worth of damage will net you 2d6 per hit at level 11, or 2d6 at level 7 with an expensive composite. Being able to knock around bad guys with standard action combat maneuvers on each hit sounds fun though. Dispelling Fist, ho!

The advantage (and disadvantage) of Kinetic Fist is that you always target AC and are never subject to SR, so you can get away with using an energy blast.

Also, combine Elemental Ascetic with Monk VMC for all the win. Larger damage dice for your Flurry, a Ki pool (that you can use with your Flurry), and Evasion. Plus you don't have the "must be lawful" requirement unless you want to overcome DR/lawful.


In my games it's only been useful with gestalt characters so far.


It's the same as having a fire Amulet of natural armor. Is crap.
You don't get a second d6 until level 11 (lol) and you forego everything about kinetic blast. You can't use touch attacks with it, you don't get any elemental overflow with it, ecc. ecc. Basically, it's just being a recycled monk.
TWF is bad because you have medium BAB, not a single bonus to hit (overflow does not apply since is not considered a kinetic blast anymore) and you always go against full AC. Just stay the hell away from it.

Scarab Sages

CalethosVB wrote:

Playing an Elemental Ascetic reduces the cost of Kinetic Fist to 0 Burn at level 1, though you give up all blasting.

Unfortunately, Elemental Ascetic also makes it impossible to use Kinetic Fist with natural weapons if you flurry. You can ignore the flurry and use natural weapons I suppose, but you are wasting class features then.


Dekalinder wrote:

It's the same as having a fire Amulet of natural armor. Is crap.

You don't get a second d6 until level 11 (lol) and you forego everything about kinetic blast. You can't use touch attacks with it, you don't get any elemental overflow with it, ecc. ecc. Basically, it's just being a recycled monk.
TWF is bad because you have medium BAB, not a single bonus to hit (overflow does not apply since is not considered a kinetic blast anymore) and you always go against full AC. Just stay the hell away from it.

Magic Fang and Amulet of Mighty Fists, two things you can't apply to normal blasts, Kinetic Blade or Whip, applies to Kinetic Fist since you're dealing damage with your unarmed strike with your blast damage layered on top of it. Enhancement bonuses, and weapon special abilities. Sure, Elemental Overflow doesn't apply, but it doesn't need to.

Scarab Sages

CalethosVB wrote:
Kinetic Blade or Whip, applies to Kinetic Fist since you're dealing damage with your unarmed strike with your blast damage layered on top of it.

What? You can't have Kinetic Blade and Kinetic Fist active at the same time because they are both form infusions. If you only use kinetic blade, you cannot apply your unarmed strike damage to the touch attack because the blade is wielded as a melee weapon.


Reread the whole sentence instead of just that partial quote. I did not include an Oxford Comma.

Scarab Sages

Ah, Parsing error, got it now.


What blast damage layered on top? All kinetic fist gives you is exactly 1d6 damage until level 11, when it becomes 2d6. That's it. No other +damage except for that single d6 on top of the fist damage. No cos, no overflow, no static +1 from being physical, nothing.

You are basically a failed monk with a pittance of extra damage that is going to be eaten up by resistance or DR since is considered a separate istance from the base hit.

I do agree however that Elemental ascetic + VMC monk make it "usable" but it is still a lot of investment for a funtionally still underwhelming ability. Just use kinetic blade shaped up as an unarmed strike (they are light weapons). Wrap yourself in fire/lightning/whatever and them kick the hell out of them. Because, for reason I can't fathom, Elemental Ascetic apparently never learned how to kick someone.

It's just a derp of a talent like is written right now. It should have been a base of 1d6, then 1d6 extra for every three damage dice. That way it would have had a more acceptable progression instead of having litterally 10 dead levels straight.


But it could be a worthwhile dip in niche builds that already depends on dipping everywhere. such as: Alchemist 2/slayer 2/elemental aesthetic 1/fighter (brawler) 3...


Torbyne wrote:
But it could be a worthwhile dip in niche builds that already depends on dipping everywhere. such as: Alchemist 2/slayer 2/elemental aesthetic 1/fighter (brawler) 3...

Hehe, that one should totally be a new class. Elecric Fingernails should totally be a class ability, coupled with Aetheric Mask of Beauty and Pyroeyelash


whoops, gotta love auto-correct. still, that would be a fabulous class.

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