Improved Critical & Bracers of Falcon's Aim


Rules Questions


I'm talking about crossbow. How does it work?

With a bow it will be just 19-20x3, but with a crossbow...

Might it be 17-20x3?

Liberty's Edge

I think so. It doesn't stack with effects that increase the critical threat range, but you've already got a 17-20 threat range. Says nothing about the crit modifier, so 17-20x3 looks right.


No it specifically says that does not stacks so even crossbows stays at 19-20 x3


So... what is the right answer? ;)


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I'd go with the more liberal interpretation. Falcon's Aim provides two benefits: 19-20 crit range, and x3 crit multiplier. Improved Critical provides a single benefit: x2 crit range. x2 crit range and 19-20 don't stack, because it says they don't stack. However, crossbows already have a 19-20 crit range, so they do kinda stack to 17-20. The bracer crit range expansion doesn't, but the natural crossbow crit range should. As for the x3, it stacks because the bracers don't say anything about restricting crit multipliers.

Plus, these are crossbows we're talking about. Why would you ever want to nerf them?


Dekalinder wrote:
No it specifically says that does not stacks so even crossbows stays at 19-20 x3

The bracers don't stack with Improved Critical, but why would they cancel it out?

17-20/x3 sounds correct to me.


"Plus, these are crossbows we're talking about. Why would you ever want to nerf them?"

The best argument for me, really ;)

Thanks!


No problem! If you're going by that interpretation, then Bolt Ace's Crossbow Training should stack, too. 17-20/x4 will make your life very, very sweet.


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PRD wrote:

ASPECT OF THE FALCON[

You take on an aspect of a falcon. Your eyes become wide and raptor-like, and you grow feathers on the sides of your head. You gain a +3 competence bonus on Perception checks, a +1 competence bonus on ranged attacks, and the critical multiplier for your bows and crossbows becomes 19–20/×3. This effect does not stack with any other effect that expands the threat range of a weapon, such as the Improved Critical feat or a keen weapon.

The effect of the spell is that your crossbow becomes 19–20/×3. That effect specifically doesn't stack with Improved Critical. You can either use Improved Critical to have a 17–20/×2 weapon or you can use the Bracers to have a 19–20/×3 weapon, but you can not apply them both to get a 17–20/×3 weapon.


Gisher is correct.


That makes me sad.

:(

Still, Crossbow training stacks with it.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Lord Lupus the Grey wrote:

I'm talking about crossbow. How does it work?

With a bow it will be just 19-20x3, but with a crossbow...

Might it be 17-20x3?

No, it will never be 17-20 because it doesn't stack with Improved Critical.


On the plus side having a weapon with the potential of 19-20 and ×4 is pretty damn decent.


Cavall wrote:
On the plus side having a weapon with the potential of 19-20 and ×4 is pretty damn decent.

Or rather a choice between 17-20/x3 and 19-20/x4.


It does not STACK (to make a result of 15-20, for example) but need to overlap, beacuse there is nothing about critical multipplier.

Maybe, it needs to be errated?


Why? It's quite clear. No errata needed. It states it won't stack with keen or crit focus.

The crossbow benefit from a fighter is an exception because it's only job is to be that exception.


My Self wrote:
Cavall wrote:
On the plus side having a weapon with the potential of 19-20 and ×4 is pretty damn decent.
Or rather a choice between 17-20/x3 and 19-20/x4.

That's a tough call, to me. I'm sure there's number crunchers that could work the better deal out, but that's when things get errata...again.


Number wise 17-20 x3 is a 40% damage boost while 19-20 x4 is only a 30% damage increase.


i think this should be clarified.
you can argue in two ways:

1st: bringing the weapon to a total of 19-20/x3 is ONE effect. you can either have this, or you can have things like improved critical. this would mean you can either have 19-20/x3 or 17-20/x2

2nd: the spell has two effects: altering the critical threat and altering the critical Multiplier. then you would compare the altered critical threat with effects like keen or impr. ciritical and take the strongest, whilst the effect altering the Multiplier stays active. thist would be 17-20/x3 for an x-bow then.

i´d go with the first. both effects are granted by 1 spell and its not clearly said that only crit threat would not interact with e.g. keen.
also i think 4k would be way to cheap if it should work that way.
i mean bringing the weapon from 19-20x2 to 17-20x3 by 4000gp plus 1 feat is damn cheap, basicly a must have.

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