Would this break the game?


Homebrew and House Rules


As a houserule:

A character may make a full attack using melee weapons as a standard actions. If they do so, they cannot cast spells as part of this full attack and forfeit their attack (or attacks, if they possess improved two-weapon fighting) at their lowest base attack bonus. This means that a Magus may not use spell combat as a standard action.

Any feedback?


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Well, I'd be careful with changing the action economy. Paizo did that in Unchained:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/unchained-action-economy

We are using it in our group (with a few tweaks) and it's good, but it has a serious impact on the understanding of rules, value of feats and power of classes. And the GM is in charge when it comes to actions not used yet.

So be warned that your simple change opens a can of worms. Some quick points:

* two-weapon fighting means move and attack with three weapons at level 6
* twohanded weapon fighting means no use till level 11
* think about someone with multiple natural attacks...
* Haste
* devalued Spring Attack / Vital Strike / Cleave
* devalued Mobile Fighter / Greater Beast Totem / Dimensional Dervish
* some classes profit more (light / no armor; move speed bonuses) than others
* some races profit more (30 ft base speed) than others
* interaction with flight / swim?


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I created a new type of combat maneuver, called Assault:

Assault:

Assault: As a full-round action, you can move up to your speed while performing a full attack. You can move after, before or between your attacks. You still provoke attacks of opportunity while moving, and you can't make a 5-foot step in the round you perform a Assault. You can only perform a Assault with primary natural attacks, manufactured melee weapons and unarmed attacks.

So far in playtests, so good. You can't Spellcombat because it is a full-round action for itself, a Monk can't Flurry by the same reason.


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Can I get in on that?

I have a 200 fly speed, and like 6 attacks per round...

But more seriously...
I think you might want to clarify that it operates only for the attacks granted by a high BAB, not natural attacks. Also, anything the PCs get should work for NPCs as well, that is just how the system works.

Here is the thing - two handed attackers don't really need much of a boost. They can move and do a single attack that is very effective. The only boost they need would be allowing vital strike feat to scale up automatically. Two weapon fighters are the ones who need help. Allowing them to attack once with each weapon as a standard action isn't going to hurt the game balance, especially if there is a +5 BAB requirement or something.

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This was discussed heavily in other threads. The consensus was that it was generally not a good idea. Though, one suggested a compromise that you can move up to half your movement speed.


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Well, made some changes.

Assault:

As a full-round action, you can move up to half of your speed while performing a full attack. You can move after, before or between your attacks. You still provoke attacks of opportunity while moving, and you can't make a 5-foot step in the round you perform a Assault. You can only perform a Assault with melee weapons and unarmed attacks.

Two-Weapon Fighting:

As a standard action, you can can make one additional attack at your highest attack bonus with your off-hand, taking the normal penalties for two-weapon fighting. You do not receive additional attacks for a high base attack bonus, or for having the Two-Weapon Fighting feat tree.


SheepishEidolon wrote:

* devalued Spring Attack / Vital Strike / Cleave

* some classes profit more (light / no armor; move speed bonuses) than others

I wouldn't say it devalues vital strike, assuming it wasn't a feat tax (which is something most people also fix when they do standard full attacks) it is often times better to vital strike as you become increasingly less likely to hit whereas vital strike does most of that damage for the iterative attacks each time. Spring attack is a trap, so not like much changed. Cleave also becomes useless after level 5 as is, except for certain builds, so not much of a loss in the long run.

The issue of classes profiting more is that now TWF rogue doesn't have to stand still to be useful, not that they are in light armor.

The OPs choice to lose the last attack doesn't really do much, Personally I would make them lose one of their highest (if they have multiple) BAB attacks (basically the cost of movement). The feats would have to be reworded but when done with a group of non-lawyers its something that should take no time at all, just common sense.

Liberty's Edge

Metal Sonic wrote:

Well, made some changes.

Assault:
As a full-round action, you can move up to half of your speed while performing a full attack. You can move after, before or between your attacks. You still provoke attacks of opportunity while moving, and you can't make a 5-foot step in the round you perform a Assault. You can only perform a Assault with melee weapons and unarmed attacks.
Two-Weapon Fighting:
As a standard action, you can can make one additional attack at your highest attack bonus with your off-hand, taking the normal penalties for two-weapon fighting. You do not receive additional attacks for a high base attack bonus, or for having the Two-Weapon Fighting feat tree.

I would like your permission to include those moves in my own game.

@Original Poster: The question of "Will this break my game?" is not one that is easily answered; you will never know whether something will turn out to be underpowered or overpowered without testing it in a changing environment and seeing what comes out most often, the only exception being when something is so extremely over/underpowered that it is immediately apparent. Furthermore, it is often just as dangerous to introduce something that is ridiculously underpowered as this to introduce something ridiculously overpowered.


Seth Dresari wrote:


I would like your permission to include those moves in my own game.

For sure! I'm glad that you liked it.Fell free to use any of my house rules. About 90% is playtested up to 10th-ish level.

Liberty's Edge

Thanks! What do you think?

Back on the subject of game balance, I guess it is all up to circumstance and interpretation.


Seth Dresari wrote:

Thanks! What do you think?

I will read your project as soon as I can.

Seth Dresari wrote:


Back on the subject of game balance, I guess it is all up to circumstance and interpretation.

Balance is indeed a bit subjective, but I think that some of is isn't. Like, there is a GOOD reason why Divine Metamagic and Persist Spell don't exist in Pathfinder. :p

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