need clarification on a monster build


Rules Questions


I'm building a zombie rat. My problem is that under the zombie template it says to loose all feats, but it also says to keep anything that boosts melee and ranged attacks. so rats get weapon finesse, so do they loose this when made into zombies


No, it doesn't say "keep anything that boosts melee and ranged attacks".

It does say this:

Pathfinder SRD, Templates, Zombie wrote:
Attacks: A zombie retains all the natural weapons, manufactured weapon attacks, and weapon proficiencies of the base creature. It also gains a slam attack that deals damage based on the zombie's size, but as if it were one size category larger than its actual size (see Natural Attacks).

It retains natural weapons (so the rat can still bite even though a human zombie would not). It retains manufactured weapons (so a human zombie could use a sword but a rat would not). It retains weapon proficiencies (so a dwarven zombie could still use a dwarven waraxe proficiently).

Weapon Finesse is not a "weapon proficiency" nor is it a natural attack so this bit of quoted text does not even apply to Weapon Finesse.

And it says this:

Pathfinder SRD, Templates, Zombie wrote:
Special Qualities: A zombie loses most special qualities of the base creature. It retains any extraordinary special qualities that improve its melee or ranged attacks. A zombie gains the following special quality.

"extraordinary special qualities" would be listed as "Quality Name (ex)". For example, look at a skunk. It has "Musk (ex)" which is an extraordinary special quality it can use as an attack, so a zombie skunk would still stink (more than ordinary zombies).

Weapon Finesse is not an extraordinary special quality.

So the zombie rat loses this feat.

(side note: Tiny creatures can use DEX for their CMB and Tiny familiars can use DEX for all attack rolls but I don't think there is a rule for Tiny non-familiars to automatically use DEX for all attack rolls - but it would make for a reasonable housrule to simply extrapolate the familiar rule out to all Tiny (or smaller) creatures)


than you I was wondering about this, I'm using both the fast and plague variants on the zombie. but it's still only a CR 1/2 creature so not that bad. I'm using this to a plague based story line adventure.

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