[Interest Check] youtube channel and / or podcast about "min-maxing" in pathfinder


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

So when I go on youtube and look for PF content i see allot of introductory content. "new to pathfinder? these are the classes" is ubiquitous among the results. However I have yet to find a channel for the veteran or intermediate player who would be interested in more minutia of PF.

My idea is to host either a podcast and/or you-tube channel that Diggs deep into something Pf related that the users vote on. (similar to how The Biggest Problem in the Universe is set up)

So what do you think?
My biggest question would be what format do you think would lend itself to the show best?


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meeko wrote:

So when I go on youtube and look for PF content i see allot of introductory content. "new to pathfinder? these are the classes" is ubiquitous among the results. However I have yet to find a channel for the veteran or intermediate player who would be interested in more minutia of PF.

So what do you think?
My biggest question would be what format do you think would lend itself to the show best?

To be honest, I would rather not see any more help teaching players how to min-max/powergame/munchkin/twink. There's more than enough of that already, albeit usually in the form of written guides.

Perhaps instead a podcast covering other non-introductory mechanics, breaking them down with simplified explanations, and new ideas on how they can be utilized in creative, non-powergame ways? Perhaps with a comedic aspect? Maybe covering things that even experienced players get wrong or avoid; like grappling, variant channeling/summoning, obscure combat tactics, etc? Just my two cents.


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NO!

Does anyone think PFS is hard enough to need to do anything more than build reasonable characters? Really?

What really needs to happen is the difficulty of scenarios needs to roughly double. Then maybe people can start posting stuff about powergaming.


I'd be ok with it.

Looking at the min max builds, I've decided I'm not willing for my character to suck that hard at what I "min" to be able to "max" the stuff my character would be awesome at. But if others want to get advice on building characters that are effective/powerful mechanically, that's just fine by me.

Scarab Sages

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My PCs are designed as Min-Max builds...

Maximize the table fun with a minimum of non-fun stuff.

;)

I'm always interested in things that do this.


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That content would be nice to see.
You will not see many posts in agreement with my own due to this forum's culture of rabid anti optimization. See also the first five replies in this thread, where one was moderate, one a troll, and the other three decidedly anti optimization.

My recommendation is to give it a spin, see what kind of viewership you end up with. If you build it, they will come. If you talk about building it, you'll be shouted down by everyone who feels threatened because you aren't playing a fighter with 20 int.

Liberty's Edge

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I'd like to see more content that gets into the difficult rules elements and advanced tactics rather than min maxing


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Some tactics might be really good, explain what teamwork actually is, something like that.
Also how to do interesting character backgrounds with personality that are easy to roleplay.
Or how to do some characters that are not rip offs from some anime/manga/superhero stuff from other universes.

Grand Lodge

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I would rather see something on how to be a better overall PFS player rather than focusing on only 1 element. While I don't think there is anything essentially wrong with Min-Maxing, it is only one element of PFS and not one everyone is that interested in. Nor is it the only one that should be encouraged. As Giamo pointed out, it's really better to Min-Max your character for fun than it is to Min-Max it for statistical advantage. Maybe a series of podcasts the each focused on one element, such as:

1) Character concepts and role-playing
2) Optimizing
3) Advanced tactics
4) Advanced Rules Elements
5) Table Cooperation

Dark Archive

I love your idea

Scarab Sages

trollbill wrote:

I would rather see something on how to be a better overall PFS player rather than focusing on only 1 element. While I don't think there is anything essentially wrong with Min-Maxing, it is only one element of PFS and not one everyone is that interested in. Nor is it the only one that should be encouraged. As Giamo pointed out, it's really better to Min-Max your character for fun than it is to Min-Max it for statistical advantage. Maybe a series of podcasts the each focused on one element, such as:

1) Character concepts and role-playing
2) Optimizing
3) Advanced tactics
4) Advanced Rules Elements
5) Table Cooperation

great post! well... except for #2.

the term "Optimizing"... what are we Optimizing for. What aspect of play are we wanting to highlight.

That's why I was pointing out that my PCs are "Optimized" to increase the fun at the table.

(edit) maybe the list should be:
Podcast focused on Optimizing
1) Character concepts and role-playing
2) Combat abilities
3) Advanced tactics
4) Advanced Rules Elements
5) Table Cooperation

Grand Lodge

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Buba Casanunda wrote:
trollbill wrote:

I would rather see something on how to be a better overall PFS player rather than focusing on only 1 element. While I don't think there is anything essentially wrong with Min-Maxing, it is only one element of PFS and not one everyone is that interested in. Nor is it the only one that should be encouraged. As Giamo pointed out, it's really better to Min-Max your character for fun than it is to Min-Max it for statistical advantage. Maybe a series of podcasts the each focused on one element, such as:

1) Character concepts and role-playing
2) Optimizing
3) Advanced tactics
4) Advanced Rules Elements
5) Table Cooperation

great post! well... except for #2.

the term "Optimizing"... what are we Optimizing for. What aspect of play are we wanting to highlight.

That's why I was pointing out that my PCs are "Optimized" to increase the fun at the table.

Well, those were only some examples. You could further break it down into Optimizing for Combat and Optimizing for out of Combat. Or Mechanical Optimization and Optimization for fun (getting the most out of your game).

Grand Lodge

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How about:
1) Character concepts and role-playing
2) Combat Optimization
3) Out of Combat Optimization
4) Advanced Tactics
5) Advanced Rules Elements
6) Table Cooperation
7) Optimizing for Fun (putting it all together)

Silver Crusade

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Players have plenty of guidance on creating a mechanically effective character. I don't think there is more need of that.

Here are some things I'd like to see for new players:

Guidance for creating a character that works well for Pathfinder Society.
It is possible to make just about any combination of race and class into a character that works in this campaign, but some are more challenging than others. New players should be made aware of those challenges. There are also classes and prestige classes tailor made for the campaign. Those should be highlighted.

Guidance for getting the most out of the campaign. This includes things like choosing traits or factions, what equipment is useful (every character really should own a wayfinder, for instance), how skill checks can be used to help your party succeed on missions.

Etiquette for playing at a table of strangers (or friends). Suggestions for making the game more fun for everyone. How players can make the game easier for the GM to run and enjoy.

Just some thoughts.

Community & Digital Content Director

Removed a post and reply to it. There really isn't any need for this kind of negative rhetoric.


Go full Optimization. People don't (or shouldn't) need to be told to how to make their own character, if you want to play Elf with Bow, there's not much anyone can help with that. System mastery however is something that you can help another player with. Etiquette and all that jazz has very limited amount of material to talk about. "Don't be a jerk. Bathe regularly." There. Etiquette guide.

I would watch a system mastery focused channel though provided it went deep enough into the mechanics.

Dark Archive

I'd watch it, listen to it.

I'd also like an episode based on playstyles. "if you like this, play this, this, or that"

While there are basic episodes on that topic, they are too newbish.
I don't want a re-hash of the info in the manuals. I'd like something along the line of "if you want to be the party face and still kick ass...", "if you like to be ranged DPS with some control", etc

Or maybe even a few "iconic" heroes from other worlds translated into their PF equivalent.

But not in the basic sense, but in the "i know the role, what are my options that don't suck" way :)


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I think the overlap between "is good at optimizing" and "prefers video to text" is close to 0%.


trollbill wrote:

How about:

1) Character concepts and role-playing
2) Combat Optimization
3) Out of Combat Optimization
4) Advanced Tactics
5) Advanced Rules Elements
6) Table Cooperation
7) Optimizing for Fun (putting it all together)

I've actually been conceptualizing a YouTube channel that would discuss things like this for a while now. Thinking of starting it up in a few months - right now my computer's in the shop and I need to figure out some other things before I start.


No. I personally don't have the time or interest in watching someone just talk. Frankly if you've got something worth sharing on the topic, write it down and make it an article or blog. There's no benefit to using video or even audio except for those unable to read. Spoken word is massively slower than written word. Don't waste time just because it's trendy to do so.

That's my opinion.

Dark Archive

I love podcast, mainly because I can listen to them while I commute.

I also like them, because they normally have several people discussing a topic, which makes it a) more easy to listen to and b) allows for an interesting flow, going on tangents, shedding light on stuff that would have normally been edited out.

Dark Archive

There's a thread on Something Awful right now titled "murphy's rules: your favorite games are weird." It's a big thread, but you only have to look for posts by a guy called Lightwarden. Every last one of them is comedy gold that optimize 3e/Pathfinder to the point of parody while also gently ribbing some of the more unusual systems.

Ranging from turning Jade Regent into Pokemon style waifu collector to the antipaladins breaking games in half with succubus companions, it's a funny bunch of posts.

What I'm saying is I would pay real cashmoney dollars for a lighthearted pathfinder series that mixes clever tricks and amusing ways to theoretically break the world like it was Hitchhiker's Guide.


It'd probably be more useful to give new players an understanding of how to actually play. as in, teach them why they need to carry 50ft of rope, 3 flasks of oil, some tindertwigs, 2 iron spikes, a climber's kit, a spade and a sledge, in addition to their combat gear. maybe teach them why it's sometimes a good idea to wear light armor, even though you have heavy as a proficiency, and why any DM who uses Frostburn's hazard rules is not to be f@$*ed with.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

wow guys I posted this on a whim and didn't expect this big of a response. I'm current on vacation, but ill be flying back home tomorrow, so that's when I'll start replying.

thanks again for all of your thoughts, I'm looking forward to hearing more!

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Amanda Plageman wrote:

To be honest, I would rather not see any more help teaching players how to min-max/powergame/munchkin/twink. There's more than enough of that already, albeit usually in the form of written guides.

Perhaps instead a podcast covering other non-introductory mechanics, breaking them down with simplified explanations, and new ideas on how they can be utilized in creative, non-powergame ways? Perhaps with a comedic aspect? Maybe covering things that even experienced players get wrong or avoid; like grappling, variant channeling/summoning, obscure combat tactics, etc? Just my two cents.

I hear what your saying, and I really like the idea of the "non-introductory" guides, I do see that well running dry eventually but if I stagger them out month to month or something it would last me a while.

I'm beginning to think I should organize a weekly variety, so one week i do rules, another i do fun munchkin stuff where i break the starknife or something.

thanks again for commenting

Shadow Lodge

I'd much rather it be a podcast that can be downloaded and listened to than a video that requires Internet to view or stream.

An additional benefit to the "min/max" concept is that it can give others ideas of what to watch out for.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

[quote=
The Fourth Horseman]NO!

Does anyone think PFS is hard enough to need to do anything more than build reasonable characters? Really?

What really needs to happen is the difficulty of scenarios needs to roughly double. Then maybe people can start posting stuff about powergaming.

Well I'm not really interested in making this pfs focused and, as I understand it, this board isn't pfs only so I don't really see the relevance in your post...

maybe you can clarify it.

thanks for the reply


I think his point is perhaps that while you may not make it PFS focused, your audience will inevitably PFS-heavy, and have an impact [negative in Jessex' opinion] on Society play.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
The Fourth Horseman wrote:

I'd be ok with it.

Looking at the min max builds, I've decided I'm not willing for my character to suck that hard at what I "min" to be able to "max" the stuff my character would be awesome at. But if others want to get advice on building characters that are effective/powerful mechanically, that's just fine by me.

That's a fair point and I'm personally averse to negative attributes myself. I realize now that I shouldn't have used the term "min-maxing" and instead just "maximize". You can make a very powerful wizard without dumping STR and WIZ.

What I want to do is give an interesting perspective on how to build different things. Imagine ravingdork had a youtube channel where he talked about and broke down all the reasons for some of his zany characters. I'm constantly daydreaming up new ideas for characters, and I think youtube would be fun outlet for that.


meeko wrote:
The Fourth Horseman wrote:

I'd be ok with it.

Looking at the min max builds, I've decided I'm not willing for my character to suck that hard at what I "min" to be able to "max" the stuff my character would be awesome at. But if others want to get advice on building characters that are effective/powerful mechanically, that's just fine by me.

That's a fair point and I'm personally averse to negative attributes myself. I realize now that I shouldn't have used the term "min-maxing" and instead just "maximize". You can make a very an even more powerful wizard without by dumping STR and CHA.

Fixed that for you. The corrected information should be more along the lines of what a such podcast/video should communicate to players who might not know that.

Silver Crusade

I personally would welcome it, I enjoy seeing and hearing about other things that may have escaped my knowledge, and it could be fun seeing someone else's perspective. Hell, maybe it'd be enough to get me to try a divine class for once.


N. Jolly wrote:
I personally would welcome it, I enjoy seeing and hearing about other things that may have escaped my knowledge, and it could be fun seeing someone else's perspective. Hell, maybe it'd be enough to get me to try a divine class for once.

Have I told you about the Shaman yet?

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