Boring Human Fighter


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A couple of us were talking about trying to do something at least kinda unexpected. He almost always plays wierd things. A suli fire elementalist druid multi-classed with monk and crossblooded sorc. Things like that.

So he's thinking of making a single class human fighter (which most say is the most boring class) just to shock the group. Then spice it up with wierd powers and abilities as much as possible.

This might just be a thought experiment, but one of us also might actually try to run it and see how it goes.

So what were thinking is use the regular feats for some wierdness and the even the combat feats to be as wierd as we can make it. It still has to be at least decently effective, but not optimal. The group doesn't really optimize that much, but he won't want to be an anchor for the group.

So what are the wierdest powers we can get into a fighter?

Skill Focus and the Eldritch Heritage line - Some of the bloodlines like undead and storm give some pretty wierd powers that you wouldn't expect from a fighter.

Iron Will and the Familiar feat from the Familiar Folio - That book's options can give you a great scout, diplomat, or even flank combat buddy. Can you still take Improved Familiar without caster levels?

Seems like there were even some feats to give an animal companion, but now I can't find it. Am I mistaken?

For combat feats, the only fighting style that seems to never be used is throwing weapons. But I'm not sure that can be made even halfway decent. So I was thinking going for some of the really rarely seen weapons like scizore, terbutje, mancatcher, tepoztipilli, or urumi.

What do you folks think? Any other ideas for us?


From the Familiar Folio I'd rather have taken the Eldritch Guardian archetype for a full familiar that uses your combat feats (even teamwork ones)

for the Animal Companion, he can take Nature Soul and Animal Ally, and later Boon Companion in order to have it at full progression instead of character level -3

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

Maybe the fighter wields one of the weird racial weapons, like gnome hooked hammer, dire flail, or urgrosh. (In order of increasing non-weirdness.)

Scarab Sages

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Racial Heritage:Kitsune and Magical Tails. All of them.


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Gnome battle ladder.


You can also toss in the mutation warrior archetype, granting him a mutagen and alchemist discoveries such as wings or extra arms.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
OldRolero wrote:
You can also toss in the mutation warrior archetype, granting him a mutagen and alchemist discoveries such as wings or extra arms.

Two extra arms, and double up on the halfling sling staff.


Play a goblin, roleplay a goblin.

Works for me to the point of infamy.

Edit, for thread accuracy: Play a human fighter, roleplay a goblin fighter. Maybe the character was adopted. :)

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

If there is some combat maneuver no one in your group ever uses, now might be the time.


Entryhazard wrote:

From the Familiar Folio I'd rather have taken the Eldritch Guardian archetype for a full familiar that uses your combat feats (even teamwork ones)

for the Animal Companion, he can take Nature Soul and Animal Ally, and later Boon Companion in order to have it at full progression instead of character level -3

Not all teamwork feats... but most of the good ones are combat feats- outflank, paired oppurtunist, precise strike, broken wing gambit, etc.

Also coordinated charge- that allows you to charge as an immediate action when your teammate does. And timed well, it means you start your next turn next to your enemy. With a familiar there to charge on command... this is basically pseudo pounce with an extra attack on top.

With a mauler familiar (a familiar archetype that makes them more combat ready, and gives a lot of str bonuses to them), you can easily make this fairly interesting. and you kinda look like a ranger while doing it.

Grand Lodge

Helpful Halfling Eldritch Guardian with a Mascot Familiar.
Cautious Defense, Blundering Defense, then start slowly working your way up Archon Style.


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ooooooo you want a full fighter throwing build? heck yes! may I introduce you to two handed thrower and Sliding axe throw? Two handed thrower lets you do normal 2h damage with thrown weapons while axe throw lets you get free trip attempts at range while still doing damage. I'd say it is pretty weird throwing half a dozen axes at a person, but why stop there? Lets kick it up a notch! sliding axe assumes that since throwing axes are the only throw-able axe that they would be the only axe for this feat. WRONG. Throw anything lets you...well throw anything. Since long axes are not intended to be thrown, if you try and throw them it is an improvised ranged weapon (as to be expected from an axe on a 7ft pole). Don't like that? Fine, there is an weapon enchantment that gives melee weapons a 10ft range increment. Seeing as how +2 priced weapons are too expensive to be thrown around willy nilly, you are going to need a blinkback belt (only applies to light and 1 handed weapons though). So by 6th level this fighter is going to be throwing a battleaxe 3 times (rapid shot in addition to his normal 2 attacks). Best part is this character is almost as effective in melee as he is at range (since weapon training (axes), weapon focus (battle axe), ect all apply).

Funny thing is, people do it in real life too


The Eldritch Guardian and Mutation Warrior mentioned above are both pretty good ways to get unexpected powers. I have an orc Dirty Fighter PC who is using Mutation Warrior to grow a devil's wings and tail (actually a tentacle on his butt)

I'm also a big fan of the Eldritch Heritage feats and would suggest using the Focused Study racial trait for humans as a way of slightly reducing the feat cost (it technically doesn't save you a feat on Skill Focus, but you get two more free Skill Focus feats later)

In another thread about making a shieldmaiden we briefly discussed using thrown weapons and Improved Snap Shot along with Shield Slam so that if anybody gets close you can push them away with Shield Slam, finish your ranged full attack, and then make AoOs if they try to come back in.

Depending on what's been seen in your group before some folks might find using the Intimidate skill to demoralize foes kind of weird or exotic. An Eldritch Guardian's familiar might even be able to use Dazzling Display.

The feats to get an animal companion are Nature Soul and Animal Ally. Having both an animal companion and a familiar would certainly seem unusual for a Fighter. Having them both cooperate with you on teamwork feats like Paired Opportunist or Tandem Trip might be interesting. I'm also a fan of the Bodyguard feat.

Grand Lodge

How about taking dangerously curious and skill focus UMD?

Holy crap you just got magical.

Taking master craftsman is a decent pick too. Making spellstoring gear in a party with members who can fill them seems like just smart play and could mistake him for someone magical.


Sensate is pretty lulzy for Evasion in Full Plate.


My previously mentioned orc has Dangerously Curious. He also has a Charisma of 5. He started the game more likely to blow a scroll up than use it successfully. He's also got Bruising Intellect, which is far more practical.

If you have relatively high Int and Cha you can qualify for Evolved Familiar. A Fighter who is just as smart and charming as is he is strong would strike some folks as unusual and probably help you avoid being "too" effective since it sounds like that's a goal. I guess it could be like a magical zookeeper PC.

Grand Lodge

Any build that focuses on Dirty Trick is pretty out there.


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Fun fact: Martial Master, Mutagen Warrior and Eldritch Guardian can all be taken at the same time on a fighter.

It should be funny when the rest of the party find out that at level 5 the uberfighter has exactly 1 fighter class feature - a single bonus feat.


blackbloodtroll wrote:
Any build that focuses on Dirty Trick is pretty out there.

Eldritch guardian can kinda break dirty trick.

The thing about eldritch guardian is that it can basically double your action economy for things like maneuver feats (since you have two bodies on the field). With a mauler familiar with a decent str, you can just zip around doing dirty tricks at your leisure.

And with dirty trick master, it means you could cripple an opponent in a single round (you can make it nauseated, which prevents it from taking the standard action to get rid of the dirty trick, which means it has to ride out the full 1d4 rounds, or however many you can manage with feats).

This requires you to successfully get the maneuver off twice in a row, of course.... But it is worth taking a charge at the enemy wizard, none the less, since it limits him to only quickened spells. With the mauler familiar's scaling str bonus, and the ability to stack mutagenic warrior with eldritch guardian (for nice stat bonuses and ever so convenient wings)... well, you can certainly take your chances against beefier fare as well.

The idea that you are particularly good against spellcasters (if only because they tend to have poor CMD) does seem appealing though. I mean...you are an ELDRITCH guardian. Whether that implies that you protect the people from magical threats, or whether you protect valuable magical artifacts... it is not hard to imagine you will be facing off against more than a few casters with planes for world/multiverse/tristate area domination.

Liberty's Edge

Imbicatus wrote:
Racial Heritage:Kitsune and Magical Tails. All of them.

Tails on a human would look ridiculous, and he'd only ever have a max of 8 rather than the full 9 that a kitsune could get.

Silver Crusade Contributor

Seth Dresari wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
Racial Heritage:Kitsune and Magical Tails. All of them.
Tails on a human would look ridiculous, and he'd only ever have a max of 8 rather than the full 9 that a kitsune could get.

If I were doing this (and I've thought about it as a route to a more humanoid fox-maiden), I'd use Bastards of Golarion as basis for a kitsune-blooded character to start with a (non-magical) fox tail.

An agathion-blooded aasimar with Scion of Humanity is probably where I'd start, though.

Grand Lodge

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Racial Heritage:Ogre.

Then, Corrupted Flesh, Fetid Breath, Raging Brute, and Vestigial Head.


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Crank up Intelligence. Use Artful Dodge, Kirin Strike and, although I know your friend would like to stay straight fighter, a two level dip into Student of War. Be smarter than the bulk of the party, as skill point heavy as the rogue, and then do unpleasant levels of damage by adding Intelligence to your attacks (Especially if you can get Stamina).

Grand Lodge

I still love the Racial Heritage:Ogre + Corrupted Flesh combo.

You just overwhelm enemies with your ability to smell bad.

Liberty's Edge

Kalindlara wrote:
Seth Dresari wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
Racial Heritage:Kitsune and Magical Tails. All of them.
Tails on a human would look ridiculous, and he'd only ever have a max of 8 rather than the full 9 that a kitsune could get.

If I were doing this (and I've thought about it as a route to a more humanoid fox-maiden), I'd use Bastards of Golarion as basis for a kitsune-blooded character to start with a (non-magical) fox tail.

An agathion-blooded aasimar with Scion of Humanity is probably where I'd start, though.

Bastards of Golarion is a thing?

Also, where would I actually get the Racial Heritage thing? Is it exclusive to a specific class or race, or could I use it to create a Kitsune Android?

Grand Lodge

Racial Heritage is a feat.

Silver Crusade Contributor

Seth Dresari wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:
Seth Dresari wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
Racial Heritage:Kitsune and Magical Tails. All of them.
Tails on a human would look ridiculous, and he'd only ever have a max of 8 rather than the full 9 that a kitsune could get.

If I were doing this (and I've thought about it as a route to a more humanoid fox-maiden), I'd use Bastards of Golarion as basis for a kitsune-blooded character to start with a (non-magical) fox tail.

An agathion-blooded aasimar with Scion of Humanity is probably where I'd start, though.

Bastards of Golarion is a thing?

Also, where would I actually get the Racial Heritage thing? Is it exclusive to a specific class or race, or could I use it to create a Kitsune Android?

Bastards of Golarion is a Player Companion focusing on outcast or marginalized characters and races, such as half-orcs, dhampir, and changelings. Near the back is a table of suggested "cosmetic" appearance changes for characters descended from other races.

Racial Heritage is a human racial feat from Advanced Race Guide. (Aasimar can also qualify via the Blood of Humanity alternate racial trait.)


With the advanced multi-classing options, you could get a human fighter that uses the air or conjuration: teleportation schools to get flight@will or dimension door (as a swift action!). With a compy familiar, with the Sage archetype, it could have about 4 knowledges at max ranks and an intelligence much higher than your average fighter.
Pretty weird but probably effective.


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Marking for interest, since I have believed that Fighters aren't as weak or boring as they are made out to be, especially with Pathfinder's upgrade relative to D&D 3.5. (Still could use some more base skill points per level, though.)

Silver Crusade Contributor

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Ironically, Paizo's old Campaign Setting allowed fighters to trade out their first-level bonus feat for the following benefits (translated from 3.5):

Class Skills: A fighter trained at a famous war college or
fighting school gains the following class skills (in addition
to the normal fighter class skills): Diplomacy (Cha), Gather
Information (Cha), Knowledge (architecture and engineering)
(Int), Knowledge (geography) (Int), Knowledge (nobility
and royalty) (Int), Sense Motive (Wis).
Skill Points per Level: 4 + Int modifier.


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Dwarven Dorn Dergar. Just saying it makes any class infinitely more fun. Make sure never to say "i attack". ALWAYS specify youre using your Dwarvern Dorn Dergar.

Also depending on your tables 3rd party allowance, the "Creative Oppurtunist" feat from Tome of Ingenuity lets you use the skirmishers "Creativity" class feature 1/3 class level times per day. It lets you exchange the number you rolled for an adjacent lower number, but you get bonus effects based on the number as long as you can come up with a role playing reason for why you get them. Ton of fun.


Kalindlara wrote:

Ironically, Paizo's old Campaign Setting allowed fighters to trade out their first-level bonus feat for the following benefits (translated from 3.5):

Class Skills: A fighter trained at a famous war college or
fighting school gains the following class skills (in addition
to the normal fighter class skills): Diplomacy (Cha), Gather
Information (Cha), Knowledge (architecture and engineering)
(Int), Knowledge (geography) (Int), Knowledge (nobility
and royalty) (Int), Sense Motive (Wis).
Skill Points per Level: 4 + Int modifier.

I proposed something like that recently and was told (repeatedly) that fighters dont need or want more skill options, they just want more feats, Will save bonus, and to be able to full attack and move at the same time.


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@baval the real fun comes in saying that you drop your dancing disrupting dwarven dorn dergar and draw your distance designating dustbolt.

edit: while drunkenly depending on your dwarven darkvision


@use headbutt

your name is also a good suggestion.


Heh yeah if he was a brawler I'd suggest a headbutt centric build but fighter headbutts are weak headbutts. ....huh, unless you used a gore attack. the mutagen warrior gets feral mutagen granting bite and 2 claws and can stack with the savage warrior. Toss in the helm of the mammoth lord which gives you a gore attack and this could be a fun build. Alternativly you could go viking archtype and take the lesser fiend rage power (and gain pounce later) and combine it with the impaling charge feat. heh, headbutt them so hard you grapple them.


Convincing the DM to use the Background Skills variant from Unchained can make your Fighter's skills a lot more interesting. Ever since we started using it my Viking can actually sail his longship! Unfortunately longships completely suck, but that's an entirely different issue...

Regarding Dirty Trick Master, I know that folks trying to gain an advantage will sometimes hide from RAI under the biggest RAW rock they can find, but the guy who wrote the feat feels that you should be able to remove the nauseated condition as a standard action even though a nauseated character usually can't perform standard actions. That seems pretty fair to me, but since my Dirty Fighter can substitute a Dirty trick for an attack maybe I've got a different perspective than somebody who can only use Dirty Trick once per round.

Back on the subject of weird, I've had a few PCs who skipped natural attack items like Helm of the Mammoth Lord mostly for style reasons. For instance, I didn't want my Paladin/Bard looking rat-like and biting people with Smite Evil, so I skipped the mechanically advantageous Ring of Rat Fangs. Building a PC who uses as many natural attack adding items as possible might be amusing. Does anybody know if the Alchemist's Tentacle discovery can be used with other natural weapons as part of a full attack?

@Use Headbutt! - I like the idea of impaling somebody on your horns while charging, but it looks like Impaling Charge requires the Powerful Charge monster ability. Is there a feat or item which grants that?


UnArcaneElection wrote:

Marking for interest, since I have believed that Fighters aren't as weak or boring as they are made out to be, especially with Pathfinder's upgrade relative to D&D 3.5. (Still could use some more base skill points per level, though.)

I'm currently playing a fighter for the first time since 2nd edition and am loving it. We're in Iron Gods and I'm playing a 5th level cyber-soldier. A couple bits of cyberware go a long way. Plus, I didn't dump intelligence and took a few feats and traits to give me a great Perception (+13), Disable Device (+10), and respectable Diplomacy (+7) so he isn't limited to just power-attacking with his falcata for obscene damage and nothing else.


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The elven branched spear is pretty nice for a dex fighter. A shield trained phalanx fighter dual wielding a heavy shield and the branched spear could be pretty fun.


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Here is a build for a fighter that is "weird". You end up really pummeling the field with rocks. Also, with UMD as a skill, you can add lots of little magics here and there.

************************************************************

Knotso Dinki Rock Tosser

S: 19 D: 14 C: 12 I: 10 W: 8 Ch: 12 (20 pt basic human)

Traits:
- Fate's Favored (+1 to all luck bonuses)
- Dangerously Curious

Feats:
- Quick Draw (Human)
- Point Blank Shot (1st)
- Rapid Shot (Fighter 1)
- Precise Shot(3rd)
- Weapon Focus: Rock (Fighter 2)
- Deadly Aim (5th)
- Weapon Specialization: Rock (Fighter 4)

Items:
- Belt of Mighty Hurler (equipped @ 6th)

Level 1: Oracle (Stone Mystery)
- Revelation: Rock Throwing
- Spells: Cure Light Wounds, Divine Favor, Abundant Ammunition
Level 2: Fighter (Weaponmaster Archetype)
Level 3: Barbarian (Hurler Archetype)
- Skilled Thrower
Level 4: Fighter (Weaponmaster Archetype)
Level 5: Fighter (Weaponmaster Archetype)
Level 6: Fighter (Weaponmaster Archetype)
etc.

Theme - Rock Thowing!

NOTE: Divine Favor adds +2/+2 to the above numbers.
NOTE: Free Action draw a Great Sword as needed in Melee.
NOTE: Thrown rock range increment- 20 ft @ 1st, 30 feet @ 3rd, 40 feet @ 6th

******************************

Rock Throwing (Ex): You are an accomplished rock thrower and
have a +1 racial bonus on attack rolls with thrown rocks.
You can hurl rocks up to two categories smaller than your
own size. The range increment for a rock is 20 feet, and you
can hurl it up to 5 range increments. Damage for a hurled
rock is 2d4 for a Medium creature or 2d3 for a Small
creature, plus 1-1/2 your Strength bonus.

Skilled Thrower (Ex): The hurler is skilled at throwing
objects in combat. Increase the range increment of any
thrown weapon or object by 10 feet. This ability replaces
fast movement.

Belt of Mighty Hurling, Lesser
Aura moderate transmutation; CL 8th
Slot belt; Price 14,000 gp; Weight 1 lb.

DESCRIPTION
This thick leather belt is buckled with a bright bronze clasp in the shape of a fist.

When worn, it grants its wearer a +2 enhancement bonus to Strength and allows him to apply his Strength modifier as a bonus on attack rolls instead of his Dexterity modifier when making ranged attacks with thrown weapons. Also, the range increment of any weapon thrown by the wearer gains a +10-foot bonus. Treat this Strength bonus as a temporary ability bonus for the first 24 hours the belt is worn.


Ok, the rock flinging guy is hilarious. That's actually a surprising amount of damage there for just throwing rocks....


Saldiven wrote:
Ok, the rock flinging guy is hilarious. That's actually a surprising amount of damage there for just throwing rocks....

Credit goes to Cao Phen (I think it was). I tweaked it slightly, but he made the base concept a long while ago now.


Snowblind wrote:

Fun fact: Martial Master, Mutagen Warrior and Eldritch Guardian can all be taken at the same time on a fighter.

It should be funny when the rest of the party find out that at level 5 the uberfighter has exactly 1 fighter class feature - a single bonus feat.

Now I really wanna roll a Fighter...

Scarab Sages

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There are no boring human fighters, only boring human players. :)


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Wolfsnap wrote:
There are no boring human fighters, only boring human players. :)

Let us be honest: Vanilla Fighter is really boring. :p


Metal Sonic wrote:
Snowblind wrote:

Fun fact: Martial Master, Mutagen Warrior and Eldritch Guardian can all be taken at the same time on a fighter.

It should be funny when the rest of the party find out that at level 5 the uberfighter has exactly 1 fighter class feature - a single bonus feat.

Now I really wanna roll a Fighter...

When I cooked up a level 9 NPC with those three archetypes it was actually pretty impressive.

Who would expect a fighter to be able to switch between two weapon fighting, two weapon shield fighting, various flavors of combat maneuvers and archery from above while flying up in the air on wings (thanks mutagen warrior). And on top of that the guy had a Hawk Mauler to mix it up in melee with him (potentially sharing teamwork feats on the fly). The guy also had a half decent UMD, so potentially he could get a couple of buff rounds in if given the chance.

Shame the base fighter isn't that cool. If the above was what was printed in the CRB then there would be a lot less complaining about fighters being terrible.


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Vanilla Fighter sounds tasty, especially if you add some berries. I guess some folks will always prefer Chocolate Fighter though.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Even vanilla fighters can be amazingly powerful.

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Racial Heritage:Ogre.

Then, Corrupted Flesh, Fetid Breath, Raging Brute, and Vestigial Head.

This works especially well with mutation warrior I think.

Saldiven wrote:
Ok, the rock flinging guy is hilarious. That's actually a surprising amount of damage there for just throwing rocks....

Here's a full rock thrower build if you're interested.


Alas, I thought there was a way to gain powerful charge but my search-fu appears weak at the moment. Heck even beast shape doesn't give it to you. If you like the concept though, Hamatula Strike can do it with any piercing weapon (including gore). It can be pretty funny when you are enlarged and hit them at 20ft with a lucerne hammer since grapple states they move adjacent to you. Plus you can wail on them with the reach hammer in the grapple thanks to the feat.

Vanilla fighter is superior especially when flanked by chocolate cookies.


Pick Undersized Mount and Racial Heritage (kobold) and jump on an slurk (basically a big toad with tusks) via Slurk Rider. Your shiny scales from the Golden Scales race trait (thanks to Adopted trait) will help you with Bluff and Diplomacy. The main scale color is up to you but can net you two low level spells (Draconic Magic) and a breath weapon (Draconic Breath).

Alternatively, get reasonable Int and Cha, pick Improvisation and Improved Improvisation and become the party's skill monkey. Chosing two traits which turn skills into class skills doesn't hurt either. Probably add the Focused Study alternate racial trait for three skill focuses (level 1, 8, 16) instead of the level 1 bonus feat.

Grand Lodge

Ravingdork wrote:

Even vanilla fighters can be amazingly powerful.

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Racial Heritage:Ogre.

Then, Corrupted Flesh, Fetid Breath, Raging Brute, and Vestigial Head.

This works especially well with mutation warrior I think.

Saldiven wrote:
Ok, the rock flinging guy is hilarious. That's actually a surprising amount of damage there for just throwing rocks....
Here's a full rock thrower build if you're interested.

Okay, now this makes me wonder why this isn't in your crazy gallery.

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