Suggestion: Lessen Restrictions On Monk Variant Multiclass


Homebrew and House Rules


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Hello all :). As the title shows, I wish to suggest a change (errata? I'm not sure what term to use) to lessen the restrictions on the monk option in the variant multiclassing rules from Pathfinder Unchained.

I'm aware of varying opinions on the secondary options. Some synergise better with given primary classes than others, some are thought to start weak and finish strong and vice versa, or simply be better or worse. I don't have the system experience or mastery to judge them in-depth, but I can openly see that the monk's endures limitations that no other does.

To quote the subject: "Armor: At 1st level, he loses all his secondary monk abilities when wearing armor, using a shield, or carrying a medium or heavy load".

In literal terms, breaching any of these close-fitting lines switches off the secondary class for the duration. Around half the secondary classes have a level-1 element, but most are making choices like deities, sorcerer bloodlines and such, with only a few including restrictions such as codes of conduct. In these cases, such limits follow the path of the standard classes, except for the monk, who is drastically more restricted.

I'm not sure why this was done, perhaps to save text space. I really like the design of the feature chain, but it's close to impossible for most characters to use at all with the overarching restriction. Keep in mind this is meant to be chosen at level 1. You can't wait until you're ready to take it, unless your game luckily starts at a high enough level.

Reading through the features offered, they don't seem powerful enough to warrant such handicapping:

"Unarmed Strike: At 3rd level, he gains the Improved Unarmed Strike feat and the unarmed damage of a monk of his character level – 2."

A level 1 (medium) monk hits for D6 damage, and the secondary monk will continue to until level 6. They don't gain flurry of blows, and if the wording is accurate do not actually strike as a monk (able to do so with hands full), they just copy over the damage.

This is the only benefit the class has until level 7, and most wouldn't use it by choice since a weapon still hits harder. According to the automatic bonus progression rules also written in Unchained, characters are expected to have a +1 weapon long before level 6. This offsets the dice progression and adds +1 to hit on top of counting as magical.

One may imagine it as a backup. Picture an especially pugilistic cleric who adamantly backs the word of their God with force, and in the middle of a fight finds themselves disarmed but not dissuaded from dishing out martial retribution. But they'll have to climb out of their armour to do that, as will the rogue who dared to don a mere leather set or any other class protecting themselves. Only perhaps pure arcane casters who have other reasons to avoid armour could use it, and they would wish to never have to. It ends up as second-pick when prepared and not reliably available when unprepared for everybody else, never getting to shine.

"Evasion: At 7th level, he gains evasion."

Evasion is a powerful skill, possibly the best in the chain (along with Improved Evasion, which builds on it). Even then, it isn't so limited for standard classes, as "Evasion can be used only if a monk is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless monk does not gain the benefit of evasion". I believe that having a medium encumbrance counts as wearing medium armour and likewise for heavy, so this would not result in plate mail fireball-vaulting (at least no more than a 2 level monk/rogue dip).

"Ki Pool: At 11th level, he gains the ki pool class feature of a monk of his character level – 2, with a number of ki points equal to 1/2 his character level. He only ever gains ki pool (lawful) if he is of lawful alignment."

I gather ki pools are generally regarded as powerful for some options they can fuel. The (not unchained) monk has a limited range though, and can only do 3 things with theirs. One is ignoring increasing tiers of damage reduction so long as they have ki (no cost). This seems to just "keep up" with availability of weapons made from the materials that the feature emulates (or even lag behind notably with the 2-level delay).

The other 2 are (as secondary monks do not get flurry of blows):

> "Increase his speed by 20 feet for 1 round" (swift action)
> "Give himself a +4 dodge bonus to AC for 1 round" (swift action)

While a +4 dodge bonus is substantial on top of armour, it lasts for a single round per ki. It could be useful, as could the speed bonus, and seems a not-overpowering reward to tap into a few rounds a day at level 11. I'm unsure what currently happens to ki points if you help shift a log out of the road or otherwise incur a medium+ encumbrance. Whether they're locked temporarily or lost for the day isn't clear, though the phrasing "loses all his secondary monk abilities" might mean the latter.

"AC Bonus: At 15th level, he gains a +3 dodge bonus to AC."

This is the only feature of the monk as tightly restricted for standard monks. The other features (flurry of blows and fast movement) with such limits aren't included for secondary monks.

"Improved Evasion: At 19th level, he gains improved evasion."

As with Evasion, this normally only allows light armour and therefore no encumbrance over light. This feature comes 10 levels after normal monks gain it, when most characters are planning their retirement. In a level where Wishes and Miracles are in play, letting a secondary monk roll to completely avoid a lightning bolt doesn't seem out of place.

Long Post Short: Monk secondary class is an excellently designed chain most characters cannot use with its oppressive limits. Bringing its features into line with their standard monk limitations would make it far more feasible to enjoy.

Shadow Lodge

This is a great idea, and I will probably use it in my homebrew fix for the less appealing VMC options.

Unfortunately the odds of official errata are extremely low since it represents a functional but underpowered portion of a book of optional rules.


Weirdo wrote:

This is a great idea, and I will probably use it in my homebrew fix for the less appealing VMC options.

Unfortunately the odds of official errata are extremely low since it represents a functional but underpowered portion of a book of optional rules.

Tis the way it be with Paizo.


I meant to reply here a few days ago. Very busy week :o.

Weirdo (great username): Thanks for your approval. I'm glad if the suggestion is helpful, as that's why I made and shared it :).

I hoped the idea might be taken into consideration by Paizo; someone from Paizo to be precise. Looking around, this forum seemed to be the place to make suggestions, but like AwesomenessDog implied, does this place not receive much staff attention? If I've used the wrong channel I'd like to fix that. I know Paizo can't humour every fan's input, but I genuinely believe the rule merits re-evaluation for the purpose it's stated to have.


There really isn't a forum for making suggestions directly to Paizo about this sort of thing, outside of kicking up a fuss in the relevant Playtest (which this book didn't have) or being in the right discussion when the errata teams sweep through, usually in General Discussion or Advice forums (tread lightly if you go there - a lot of people hide those forums for good reasons).

The "suggestions" part of this forum is very much treated as "individual/group suggestions" rather than "suggestions to Paizo's developers" more often than not. This forum is pretty much seen as exclusively dealing with non-core materials, homebrew efforts, and other things not sanctioned by Paizo themselves, and as such is indeed pretty much ignored unless someone flags a thread as troublesome.


Orthos: Aah, thanks for letting me know. I did notice after making this thread that the sub-forum's URL ends with "houseRules". I'm grateful for the input that was given regardless, thanks for the helpful advice :D.

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