JPSTOD Star Voter Season 9 |
JPSTOD Star Voter Season 9 |
Owen K. C. Stephens Developer |
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Hi Owen, I just want to reiterate my question from the other day:
Chris Shaeffer wrote:I glanced through previous questions, but didn't see this one. Let me know if I am being redundant.
The rules calls for a 24x30 grid and for 72 ppi, and says that translates to 1728 x 2160. What it doesn't say is that that is the strict maximum size allowed for the image itself.
My question is: Are we allowed to leave a little breathing room around the sides to keep the grid from going right up to the edge of the image? Just for visual purposes, really.
Thanks!
I'd stick to the dimensions given in the rules.
JPSTOD Star Voter Season 9 |
Chris Shaeffer RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka Hodge Podge |
l33tspud Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 9 |
JPSTOD Star Voter Season 9 |
Could your map consist of multiple levels? Could you break the map into multiple segments to indicate separate levels or should the flip map be one solid level?
Have you seen a Paizo Flip Map done in a Similar design?
Can you think of a way to convey Mutilpe levels on a Single 2 Demensional Graphic? and not be confussing?I guess you could design it to flow from a Quarant Style Map
...Imagine 4 12x15 Maps set side by side say Level 1(top Left)Level 2(top Right)Level 4 (bottom Left) Level 3( bottom right)..A Design with Walls or other obsticles could lead to Stairs down from Level 1 to 2 and then down to 3 and then four..Or a Direct Drop off from 1 to 4..But how would someone looking at the Map realize that they were not on the Same level and how would you convey the Level in direct correspondence to each other...
Remember this is a 2 Demensional Drawing
l33tspud Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 9 |
Have you seen a Paizo Flip Map done in a Similar design?
Not as of yet - I was wondering if anyone else had.
Can you think of a way to convey Mutilpe levels on a Single 2 Demensional Graphic? and not be confussing?
This is my big concern - I've seen maps given as multiple layers but not a specific flip map. I will just start drafting and see how clear It looks. You make some strong points
JPSTOD Star Voter Season 9 |
I ain't ever seen any Isometric Flip Maps...
One thing to consider when thinking about the Flip Map...While it is a Singular encounter it could possibly be designed to be included in a Scenario as a Game Aid...Say where the Climatic Battle occurs or an Vital encounter for the Story line occurs.
But also can it be used by Me in my Campaign as a Stand Alone encounter
A Tavern
An Outpost along a river
A Sewer system under a city
A Cave..An Ice Cave, A Cave that can be used as a Shelter with Water
A Church for when my PC needs Healing
My Battle Mat was gonna be what I have been working on already for my Campaign...Several Ruins of Various sizes from the "Ruins of Nazilli" follow up to the Dragon's Demand. Mainly to provide Cover and Concealment and other tacticle movements. I need several sectors where My PCs while Encounter several small missions before they Enter the Main castle ruins which has 3 stories to it. (basement, ground and Upper level). The Main Castle ruins are Mapped and on Deviantart if you want to see it.
I am basically chopping up my City mainly because My system is to old and Clunky to be able to do the entire city in 1 Battle Map..and two I can't afford a Map printed out at about 6 foot wide and 4 foot high and our table ain't big enough to lay it flat and play on it.
Nazard Marathon Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9 |
l33tspud wrote:Could your map consist of multiple levels? Could you break the map into multiple segments to indicate separate levels or should the flip map be one solid level?Have you seen a Paizo Flip Map done in a Similar design?
Can you think of a way to convey Mutilpe levels on a Single 2 Demensional Graphic? and not be confussing?I guess you could design it to flow from a Quarant Style Map
...Imagine 4 12x15 Maps set side by side say Level 1(top Left)Level 2(top Right)Level 4 (bottom Left) Level 3( bottom right)..A Design with Walls or other obsticles could lead to Stairs down from Level 1 to 2 and then down to 3 and then four..Or a Direct Drop off from 1 to 4..But how would someone looking at the Map realize that they were not on the Same level and how would you convey the Level in direct correspondence to each other...Remember this is a 2 Demensional Drawing
There is a Paizo flip mat of a ship: one side is topside, the flip side is the three lower levels presented beside each other.
Jacob W. Michaels RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9 aka motteditor |
Guys, I'd say look at the official rules.
The challenge is to "Create an encounter map for a previously unmapped location in Golarion."
It's not to create a flip map. The space available a 24 x 30 grid, with a 1 square = 5 feet scale, which may be the same as a flip map, but it's not the same thing.
I'd recommend looking at maps from previous years and seeing reactions from both judges and voters. The rules aren't quite the same (last year for example saw several town maps and even hex maps), but you can get an idea of where to go. I think it was the 2013 round 4 that had similar flip mat-style limitations, so look at that for more ideas of what's possible...
John Lynch 106 Star Voter Season 9 |
I'd recommend looking at maps from previous years and seeing reactions from both judges and voters. The rules aren't quite the same (last year for example saw several town maps and even hex maps), but you can get an idea of where to go.
Last season's design an encounter had the requirement of a map that is similar in scope to round 2 for this season (although obviously that included specific encounter(s) for the map). The comments on those maps have helped inform my decisions in designing my map.
Wren Brown RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16 , Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka Rusty Ironpants |
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JPSTOD wrote:Have you seen a Paizo Flip Map done in a Similar design?Not as of yet - I was wondering if anyone else had.
>.>
<.<*whistles*
>.> Seedy Tavern
However, Jacob is 100% correct. If you actually read the rules for round 2 you will see that the term "flip map" is not actually contained anywhere within the rules.
Also remember that the maps in round 2 should not be judged as a finished professional map product. The goal is to design an interesting game encounter location that is clear enough to be turned over to a professional cartographer to produce a finished product.
Wren Brown RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16 , Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka Rusty Ironpants |
Einhänder Star Voter Season 9 |
Maybe it's a mark that I am not Superstar material but I don't understand the technical aspect/ requirements for Round 2. And I'm starting to get nervous because my item is still in and I've seen it 8 times today. I mean, that might mean nothing, but I guess I should prepare.
I have a map concept drawn up. But is there someone fluent in Luddite that could explain the technical stuff to a geezer like me?
Tripp Elliott RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9 aka Zahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan |
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Maybe it's a mark that I am not Superstar material but I don't understand the technical aspect/ requirements for Round 2. And I'm starting to get nervous because my item is still in and I've seen it 8 times today. I mean, that might mean nothing, but I guess I should prepare.
I have a map concept drawn up. But is there someone fluent in Luddite that could explain the technical stuff to a geezer like me?
What you need is an Androffan-Luddite translator, but those are very rare!
Kalindlara Contributor , Marathon Voter Season 9 |
Maybe it's a mark that I am not Superstar material but I don't understand the technical aspect/ requirements for Round 2. And I'm starting to get nervous because my item is still in and I've seen it 8 times today. I mean, that might mean nothing, but I guess I should prepare.
I have a map concept drawn up. But is there someone fluent in Luddite that could explain the technical stuff to a geezer like me?
Same here. I'm really worried that I'll make it in, and have no idea what I'm doing...
Taylor Hubler RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32 , Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka CalebTGordan |
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My advice: Start drawing now. Sketch out rough ideas on blank spaces without the grid and without limiting yourself in space. Do them fast and be loose with them. Once you have a few of those, look for your best ideas and take them further. Do a few rough drafts inside a grid with the space the contest allows. Mess around with it. Rearrange it.
Do all this rough work before Monday. On Monday, if you are in the top 32, take the best that you have so far and polish it up. Add the compass, the text, the key, and anything else you need. Then show it to someone who can verify it fits the rules.
No matter what, just start now with rough ideas. Don't focus on the details until you know you need to know them.
Adam Daigle Developer , Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 |
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Right now, don't sweat the technical aspects. I hate to say it, but many of the people worrying about it right now won't have to. For now, folks should, if they want to get ahead of the game, be thinking about cool encounter maps, making a bunch of sketches, and coming up with ideas. Make sure your idea is exciting, clear, and hopefully unique. Those elements have been the strongest criteria for previous map rounds.
If you make it into the top 32+alts, then you need to start worrying about DPI and whatnot. (And I'm sure you can get a lot of advice once that happens. Those technical changes are super fast... clever ideas take much longer.)
JPSTOD Star Voter Season 9 |
I am outta the running long time ago so just spitballing Ideas with People trying to help them talk out some ideas.
Found some new Style Flip Mats thanks to others who had seen something different than I have
5 Maps done today...4 Posted on the Module Forum for the Tomb of the Iron Medusa with a link to my Devianart forum, also psted them on the CArtographer's Guild Forums. Swing by and take a Look if ya fell ike it..
and one 24x30 Battlemap 1"=5 Ft at 72 DPI for my game ...
who worried, not me...
Zombieneighbours Marathon Voter Season 9 |
Right now, don't sweat the technical aspects. I hate to say it, but many of the people worrying about it right now won't have to. For now, folks should, if they want to get ahead of the game, be thinking about cool encounter maps, making a bunch of sketches, and coming up with ideas. Make sure your idea is exciting, clear, and hopefully unique. Those elements have been the strongest criteria for previous map rounds.
If you make it into the top 32+alts, then you need to start worrying about DPI and whatnot. (And I'm sure you can get a lot of advice once that happens. Those technical changes are super fast... clever ideas take much longer.)
Some of this advice is good, some is more questionable. First off, sketching and getting together your ideas are a good way of spending time on prepping for round 2 if your a hopeful.
But worrying about the technical details is also important. Maps that depend on fine details to make sense, for instance, are going to be a poor choice if the image is low resolution.
Einhänder Star Voter Season 9 |
Monica Marlowe RPG Superstar 2015 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka mamaursula |
Template Fu |
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Please, everyone reading this thread... Do note that the rules state one SQUARE of the provided grid is 5 feet. It does not say one inch is 5 foot. Having printed the grid for drawing on, I can confirm for the purpose of drawing, the grid squares are smaller than one inch square. Do not trip up, one square is five foot if you are using the provided grid.
The Raven Black Star Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9 |
One thing I did yesterday that helped me reconsider my map; so it may be a useful tip for others too :
1) Find someplace which is approximatively the size of what you will put in your map (ie, 50 meters x 40 meters if I am not mistaken). Preferably flat and not cluttered by real objects, buildings, topographical features.
2) Visualize where the elements you want to put on your map are. How do they feel to you ? You can even move around in your mental scenery and check different ways of seeing the place. In other words, it makes it more real.
This led me to rearrange parts of what I want to include and get a better feel of what I will be trying to describe through the map.
Hope it helps ;-)
BLUKnight Marathon Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 |
When it says "Create an encounter map for a previously unmapped location in Golarion" are these unmapped locations supposed to be places the contestants come up with and try to integrate into Golarion, or are they allowed to take pre-existing locations that don't already have maps and use those? If someone, for example, wanted to design the Empty Threshold from Geb, could they do that or does their map have to be a completely original location?
Jacob W. Michaels RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9 aka motteditor |
It can be either. I think typically the most credit is given to people who create a place that fits seamlessly into the campaign setting. It's more original to do that than to develop a place someone else has come up with (which Paizo may also have their own plans for). Use the setting for inspiration and play within it.
BLUKnight Marathon Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 |
Einhänder Star Voter Season 9 |
Jacob W. Michaels RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9 aka motteditor |
Hi all, have a question about vertical maps, since they are allowed. How...Do I indicate the compass rose for north if it's a vertical map?
You can have north in whatever direction you want -- typically it's the top of the page.
(That said, just to make sure, when they say vertical maps, they don't mean vertical as in tall, but rather the alignment of the page, with the narrower dimension at top and bottom and the longer dimension on the sides:
VERTICAL ALIGNMENT:
||
||
||
||
HORIZONTAL ALIGNMENT:
------
------
OK, that's really rough but hopefully gets the idea across.)
Curaigh Star Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9 |
Hi all, have a question about vertical maps, since they are allowed. How...Do I indicate the compass rose for north if it's a vertical map?
I think the horizontal/vertical is referring to page (landscape/letter) orientation and not the side of a cliff or building orientation. However north is north. I used a forced perspective on a compass, but a road sign would use an 'up arrow' to indication the direction listed.
EDIT: ninJacob'ed, (but I think a cliff face is within the rules).
Sen H.H.S. |
kittymaverick wrote:Hi all, have a question about vertical maps, since they are allowed. How...Do I indicate the compass rose for north if it's a vertical map?You can have north in whatever direction you want -- typically it's the top of the page.
(That said, just to make sure, when they say vertical maps, they don't mean vertical as in tall, but rather the alignment of the page, with the narrower dimension at top and bottom and the longer dimension on the sides:
VERTICAL ALIGNMENT:
||
||
||
||HORIZONTAL ALIGNMENT:
------
------OK, that's really rough but hopefully gets the idea across.)
Ah, so that's what they meant! Thank you for clearing it up. I interpreted the rule as saying that the map can display an area surface that is physically vertical, instead of the page alignment.
Is there a discouragement of maps that display a vertical surface though (ie cliff face of a valley)?
Edit: Just read Curaigh's reply. Thanks too for the clarification! So cliff face may be legal as long as I am clear about the orientation?
Curaigh Star Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9 |
Per the definition of vertical I think so, but I'm not a pro yet. The call is up to you. Even if it is legal, do you want to risk alienating would be cartographers or confusing voters? You will have to decide if this kind of 'out of the box' thinking is worth the risk.
In gamer parlance: RAI vs RAW, & I would err on the side of as intended. :)
JPSTOD Star Voter Season 9 |
rules are down so no chance to reread rules.
Ps...If 1 Square equals 5 Ft...even if you used (24) 1/4 inch Squares..instead of (24) 1 Inch Squares..their represented distance is still the same...24x5= 120 Feet...
Map Size is 24 squares by 30 Squares at 72 DPI 1 Square representing 5 foot scale..your 1/4 Square is the Same Scale as My 5 foot Scale
same with 30 Squares
I am sure they provided the grid 23x30 for people who don't use programs to make maps (Gimp, Photoshop, Dundjinni, Campaing Cartographer, Sketchup..etc..etc..) in..
So your design will have to be within 24x30 squares, be understandable and represent 5 foot on the Map.
So if your trying to fit the Grandcayon inside those 24x30 squares your only gonna be representing 120 feet by 150 not the whole Canyon.
Garrett Guillotte Star Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8 |
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Windows 10 keeps telling me that the Sample grid Paizo provided is damaged/corrupted/whatever. Is there another way to get the sample grid?
Try this direct, exact copy of the zipped template, or this copy of the PDF inside the archive, or this 72-dpi JPG of the PDF.
Jacob W. Michaels RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9 aka motteditor |
I think if you can do a good map and represent a vertical face, more power to you. I wish I were a good enough artist to do so. :)
I really liked Scott LaBarge's entry last year, which had a measure of verticality, though of course it wouldn't have been kosher under the rules for this year's map.
Owen K. C. Stephens Developer |
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Some questions on image sources:
Can I use royalty free stock elements on my map?
What about visual elements lifted from existing Pathfinder maps?
No, and no. The only images appropriate for this would be those pre-existing in software you used to create the map. So if you have a cartography or graphics program, feel free to use its existing resources, but don't take art from elsewhere.
Kobold Catgirl Marathon Voter Season 9 |
Owen K. C. Stephens Developer |
Kobold Catgirl Marathon Voter Season 9 |
Belabras |
Belabras wrote:Some questions on image sources:
Can I use royalty free stock elements on my map?
What about visual elements lifted from existing Pathfinder maps?
No, and no. The only images appropriate for this would be those pre-existing in software you used to create the map. So if you have a cartography or graphics program, feel free to use its existing resources, but don't take art from elsewhere.
Thanks. Hand drawn it is...
Clay Clouser RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32 , Star Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9 aka Ixxix |
Kalindlara Contributor , Marathon Voter Season 9 |