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At any rate, it gives you a discount on the drawbacks you suffer from Burn (3 for the price of 2! 5 for 3!), so there's really no reason to walk around with less than 3 Burn at 6th level. I suppose you could start the day with 2 Burn invested into defenses and then get the third with a composite blast at the beginning of the first encounter.
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Though I am a bit bummed that Elemental Overload is only triggered when you actually receive nonlethal damage. The strange part is that you can suppress the visual effects (water seeping out of pores and such) as a full-round action. Why would you do that when Elemental Overload only triggers on burn?
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The bonuses are in effect as long as you have burn, so in effect, all day. If you suppress the effect, they return when you use any wild talent, even if it doesn't have a burn cost.
In addition, she receives a bonus on her
attack rolls with kinetic blasts equal to the total number of
points of burn she currently has, to a maximum bonus of +1
for every 3 kineticist levels she possesses. She also receives
a bonus on damage rolls with her kinetic blast equal to
double the bonus on attack rolls. The kineticist can suppress
the visual effects of elemental overflow by concentrating
for 1 full round, but doing so suppresses all of this ability’s
other benefits, as well. The next time the kineticist uses any
wild talent, the visual effects and benefits return instantly.
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That's not what they said or what you asked. Elemental overflow is based on your accumulated burn. It doesn't matter of a given blast has a burn cost, only the amount of burn you've accepted today.
My mistake. I was confused off the wording of the first line. I did not know that the trigger effect was only for the visual effects. The clause afterwards (attack/2xdamage) was a constant effect.
Another thing of note with elemental overflow, the third, fifth, and seventh burn respecively also increase your to-hit and damage of your regular blasts further than already stated because they're increasing your CON/DEX modifiers.
The more I think about it, the more I feel elemental overflow is a truly valuable ability.
EDIT: at levels 6, 11, and 16 respectively.
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Just out of curiosity, what would be the visual effect for Elemental Overload on an Aether kineticist? There is generally no visible effect for TK. Maybe random pebbles orbiting you like ioun stones? You hair floating on strands of aether? Your force ward becomes a visible sphere like a droideka?
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Just out of curiosity, what would be the visual effect for Elemental Overload on an Aether kineticist? There is generally no visible effect for TK. Maybe random pebbles orbiting you like ioun stones? You hair floating on strands of aether? Your force ward becomes a visible sphere like a droideka?
i like to imagine it like this here
Just out of curiosity, what would be the visual effect for Elemental Overload on an Aether kineticist? There is generally no visible effect for TK. Maybe random pebbles orbiting you like ioun stones? You hair floating on strands of aether? Your force ward becomes a visible sphere like a droideka?
You might also see things like footsteps repelling water or loose dirt on the ground as well.
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I was thinking of tendrils that rise up and envelops you. Something like this figurine.
So here's a pretty interesting thought. A lightning kineticist that takes elemental fist and wings of air would make a pretty convincing goku.
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So here's a pretty interesting thought. A lightning kineticist that takes elemental fist and wings of air would make a pretty convincing goku.
Air/TK with elemental fist and wings of air would make a pretty convincing Neo from the matrix.
Kineticists are a fantastic base for making pop-culture based heroes. Jedi, Superheros, Furycrafters from Codex Alera, Benders, Aes Sedai from Wheel of Time, Dragonball characters, Street Fighter (HADOUKEN!), the list goes on.
Has the Pathfindercommunity gotten a concensus about where the Kineticist fits into the class power spectrum? It seems hard to figure out due to difficulty figuring out just how the Kineticist class features work (for which this guide and it's thread are doing a service).
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Has the Pathfindercommunity gotten a concensus about where the Kineticist fits into the class power spectrum? It seems hard to figure out due to difficulty figuring out just how the Kineticist class features work (for which this guide and it's thread are doing a service).
I'd put it around high T4/ low T3 myself.
Also since I haven't gotten a reply on this, I'm going to just make an executive call here. This guide is working under the following assumptions now:
1. Kinetic Blade cannot be used with conductive for melee conductive, based on the reasoning that kinetic blast is a ranged attack by default.
2. Conductive does work with ranged, and does allow infusions, based on the reasoning that conductive bombs can also use discoveries that alter them with conductive.
3. Conductive weapons using infusions only receive burn once, based on the reasoning that burn is not a payment, it is an effect of modifying a kinetic blast.
Progress planned now is for races to be finished off either tonight or tomorrow, I've been in a slump and I need to get out of it on several projects. Traits will probably take a while, not really looking forward to doing them, mundane items is going to be a small category, and honestly so's magic items since there's not a lot that really help.
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Also since I haven't gotten a reply on this, I'm going to just make an executive call here. This guide is working under the following assumptions now:
1. Kinetic Blade cannot be used with conductive for melee conductive, based on the reasoning that kinetic blast is a ranged attack by default.
2. Conductive does work with ranged, and does allow infusions, based on the reasoning that conductive bombs can also use discoveries that alter them with conductive.
3. Conductive weapons using infusions only receive burn once, based on the reasoning that burn is not a payment, it is an effect of modifying a kinetic blast.
These are all reasonable rulings and I wouldn't argue with a DM who said it, but I recommend writing in an "expect table variation" disclaimer when you talk about the interaction.
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For the guide, shouldn't the Infusion Specialization be included with the Infusion costs?
Example: Cloud is obtainable at level 14 and costs 3 burn. At that point, you have Infusion Specialization 4 and Supercharge.
This would be true IF only one infusion was able to be used at a time. If I listed it as free and something else as free, it would be confusing when the total wasn't actually free. The class features are there and nice, but I don't want to make any assumptions about what the character is doing.
I'd personally put them solidly into T3, borderly T2. They have consistent damage that put them into competition with the top of the martials, utilityes/control at least comparable to magi and inquisitors and can heal at least as well as non-specialized clerics after level 11. They can't do all of it in a single build but can do most of it without having to thinker too much.
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Actually, a section showing how much burn is expected per level could be useful.
This is a sample chart, showing expected burn per Blast. It assumes a kineticist using a single form/substance infusion of the highest level compared to his class level
I'm also taking a moment to say that I really enjoy reading this guide, being the most complete among Kineticist guides. I would like to see a section of savvy Burn usage, giving advice on when to use Burn and what wild talent type should get prioritized, possibly comparing different playstyles at different character levels.
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I wonder about their Tier and think it may be very campaign dependent. In a campaign with few encounter each day, they can nova but its not as strong as other classes. In campaigns where there are lots of fights without rest, they do very well similar to classes without having a lot of resource requirements.
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I'd personally put them solidly into T3, borderly T2. They have consistent damage that put them into competition with the top of the martials, utilityes/control at least comparable to magi and inquisitors and can heal at least as well as non-specialized clerics after level 11. They can't do all of it in a single build but can do most of it without having to thinker too much.
Yeah, the amount of solutions they can have is limited to around 10 for their career, that's not T2 levels of versatility. They're pretty comparable to warlocks in tier placement, and warlocks were T4 (maybe higher for some due to craft magic item tricks), so I can't see them as T2 ever.
Races are done, three main stats considered were con/dex and wis, since that save needs to be boosted. There's a few quite fun nonstandard races which are a lot of fun, and kineticist wyvaran seriously seems awesome for a fire/earth kineticist.
Traits are going to be annoying, I might just do a 'best of' list since most traits are so bluh nowadays, I'm waiting for a new trait guide to get some more work done on it before I go too heavy into it. Although finishing off the earlier sections will be nice for my formatting. Some slightly altered ratings after play sessions, nothing major, elemental defense is now multi colored.
I would just like to point out that, since it was mentioned, the prehensile tail for Vanara/Tiefling won't have any benefit for a Kinny.
They made sure to specifically limit the use of tails-holding-rods by the line "If she has both hands free (or all of her prehensile appendages free, for unusual kineticists), a kineticist can gather energy...." for Gather Energy.
Obviously there are other uses for it, but the one use you would hope to use it for is specifically dead on arrival.
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I would just like to point out that, since it was mentioned, the prehensile tail for Vanara/Tiefling won't have any benefit for a Kinny.
They made sure to specifically limit the use of tails-holding-rods by the line "If she has both hands free (or all of her prehensile appendages free, for unusual kineticists), a kineticist can gather energy...." for Gather Energy.
Obviously there are other uses for it, but the one use you would hope to use it for is specifically dead on arrival.
Yeah, I should change that, it's why I didn't include the Kasatha since I was hoping 4 arms would matter. Amazing how much effort they went into making Gather Power not work with any of those class specific rods.
Yeah, I should change that, it's why I didn't include the Kasatha since I was hoping 4 arms would matter. Amazing how much effort they went into making Gather Power not work with any of those class specific rods.I would just like to point out that, since it was mentioned, the prehensile tail for Vanara/Tiefling won't have any benefit for a Kinny.
They made sure to specifically limit the use of tails-holding-rods by the line "If she has both hands free (or all of her prehensile appendages free, for unusual kineticists), a kineticist can gather energy...." for Gather Energy.
Obviously there are other uses for it, but the one use you would hope to use it for is specifically dead on arrival.
There is only one workaround that I've found to use the rods, but at that point it's just a 25k 'weapon focus' item.
Telekinetic Blade (not whip, mind you) lets you hold any one object as the conduit through which the attack is delivered. Using this, you could hold the Overcharge Rod, but since it's blade...weeeell, you would only be getting a +1 to-hit from it altogether.
I guess you could use the Maximize rod and do the same thing, but it's not exactly the best spent money for max 3/day.
Actually, a section showing how much burn is expected per level could be useful.
This is a sample chart, showing expected burn per Blast. It assumes a kineticist using a single form/substance infusion of the highest level compared to his class levelI'm also taking a moment to say that I really enjoy reading this guide, being the most complete among Kineticist guides. I would like to see a section of savvy Burn usage, giving advice on when to use Burn and what wild talent type should get prioritized, possibly comparing different playstyles at different character levels.
Nice chart. Incidentally gives you an indication of what you are missing out on as Overwhelming Soul, since you can only use the stuff for which you can reduce the Burn cost to 0, or 1 for Wild Talents at level 6+ -- seems to me that this cuts out at least most of the combination stuff, and forces you to use Gather Power even in situations where you're unlikely to be able to pull it off or can't afford the action economy cost.
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As for putting in burn use, that feels like it's telling the player too much of how to play the class. It's a guide, and breaking down specific combinations feels more heavy handed than I'd like to go, since I don't really go that far in any of my other guides.
In the sister thread to this one, someone brought up a very interesting point on how to dualwield kinetic whip and blade though that by strict RAW would work, so I'm looking into that right now to see how it'd go.
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I have a few questions:
1) Do you add Class Skills when taking an expanded element?mit doesn't say either way.
2) Can someone explain the benefit of the buffer? You use burn to get a buffer that lets you negate a point of burn. Seems a wash.
3) Is Metakinesis a one use power for each burn accepted or does it apply all day?
John
The points in the buffer carry over to the next day. Put burn into it before bed, go to sleep, and now you have some "free" burn the next day.
I have a few questions:
1) Do you add Class Skills when taking an expanded element?mit doesn't say either way.2) Can someone explain the benefit of the buffer? You use burn to get a buffer that lets you negate a point of burn. Seems a wash.
3) Is Metakinesis a one use power for each burn accepted or does it apply all day?
John
1.) If it doesn't say it, assume it's supposed to be that way for a reason. The class skill boost is linked to your primary element and is not mentioned in the Expanded Element description.
2.) Buffer is a reservoir you can put points in to to use the next day.
3.) Metakinesis is an additional point cost added to the blast used, so it would apply each time you use choose to use a metakinesis-modified blast.
Buffer also allows you to reduce the cost of utility talents. So use your buffer for talents like Kinetic Healer, or Kinetic Form so you don't have to accept burn for their useage.
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There's a few quite fun nonstandard races which are a lot of fun, and kineticist wyvaran seriously seems awesome for a fire/earth kineticist.
You and I think alike on that one. In a home game, I'm planning on using a Wyvaran Kineticist that the blasts are flavored as coming from the mouth, like a breath weapon. When using an energy blast for the blade/whip I'm reaching into my mouth and pulling out the energy to hit people with. Fun stuff, with great backstory potential.
However, I would like to point out that if you're thinking of stopping with blade instead of whip in your build (or use the blade more often for various reasons), that tail with the Wyvaran can come in very handy since it allows you to threaten without having to manifest the whip.
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There is only one workaround that I've found to use the rods, but at that point it's just a 25k 'weapon focus' item.Telekinetic Blade (not whip, mind you) lets you hold any one object as the conduit through which the attack is delivered. Using this, you could hold the Overcharge Rod, but since it's blade...weeeell, you would only be getting a +1 to-hit from it altogether.
Wouldn't you be dealing damage to the rod with each hit? ;o)
I do think the rule applies to Whip as well, though; it's supposed to be a straight-up upgrade of Blade.
There's a few quite fun nonstandard races which are a lot of fun, and kineticist wyvaran seriously seems awesome for a fire/earth kineticist.You and I think alike on that one. In a home game, I'm planning on using a Wyvaran Kineticist that the blasts are flavored as coming from the mouth, like a breath weapon.
Reminds me of the Fire Kineticist I came up with that was a glassblower. If only the Hollow Rod and Vril Staff actually worked for a Kineticist...
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Wouldn't you be dealing damage to the rod with each hit? ;o)Not necessarily.
TK Blast operates in two ways: option 1, you deal blast damage, the item takes no damage. Option 2, you deal damage as if throwing the item, swapping Con for Str, and dealing damage to both item and target.
Actually, the damage to the object used occurs even when you blast.
You throw a nearby unattended object at a single foe as a ranged attack. The object must weigh no more than 5 pounds per kineticist level you possess. If the attack hits, the target and the thrown object each take the blast's damage.
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Wouldn't you be dealing damage to the rod with each hit? ;o)Not necessarily.
TK Blast operates in two ways: option 1, you deal blast damage, the item takes no damage. Option 2, you deal damage as if throwing the item, swapping Con for Str, and dealing damage to both item and target.Actually, the damage to the object used occurs even when you blast.
You throw a nearby unattended object at a single foe as a ranged attack. The object must weigh no more than 5 pounds per kineticist level you possess. If the attack hits, the target and the thrown object each take the blast's damage.
That's why you should be using something expendable, like a deck of cards...
I wonder whether you even could do a full melee attack with a regular object at high levels if it gets blown to bits by the first hit.
Call is Shrapnel Blast?
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Actually, the damage to the object used occurs even when you blast.
You throw a nearby unattended object at a single foe as a ranged attack. The object must weigh no more than 5 pounds per kineticist level you possess. If the attack hits, the target and the thrown object each take the blast's damage.Duly noted. Apologies for the misinformation upthread.
Rant Initiated:
Mrgrgr. The term 'overengineered' has never been quite so apt as with regard to this class. Every feature is pointlessly complex and meshes poorly with every other feature. It's not enough to give a scaling sla elemental blast, it has to be further subdivided into simple and composite, physical and energy with different costs and interactions for each. Want to modify your blast further? Gotta separate those into substance and form, with each of those further subdivided into individual blasts they can be used with. Want to use Eruption? Have to use fire, we can't possibly have a cylinder of stones fall on the area (Stone Call anyone?) And what do we get out of all this hyperspecialization and heap of rules? A crappy blaster that struggles to keep up with archers or evocation specialized Sorcerers, let alone pouncing barbarians or the like.
Rant suspended indefinitely.I've been working up a PFS kineticist for the last two weeks... I think I'm just going to make it a gunslinger and call it a day.
Well, if you want to build a gunslinger, I can help there too.
But no, I totally agree with you, there's a lot of this class that is very literally "rules made to balance other rules" rather than just fixing the initial problem. There's just too much over designing which is one of the reasons my work on this class has stalled, since really I'm dealing with an overly complex pile of rules. I don't even 'hate' burn, but a lot of it is really just too much for me to be able to take in at once.
I seriously want to run an LOK game, but I know I'm going to be spending the first week explaining mechanics rather than playing, which is just a shame.
I would say that it's too complicated for what it does. It's kind of comical that a class who's primary focus is mindless resource free blasting (from its offensive standpoint) is probably one of the more complex to get to that point.
I intend to do some work on this after the week long hiatus, but no promises, since I'm still somewhat burnt out.
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I intend to do some work on this after the week long hiatus, but no promises, since I'm still somewhat burnt out.
I hear if you rest for 8 hours the burn will go away...
(not sure if intended pun or not)
Wouldn't you be dealing damage to the rod with each hit? ;o)Not necessarily.
TK Blast operates in two ways: option 1, you deal blast damage, the item takes no damage. Option 2, you deal damage as if throwing the item, swapping Con for Str, and dealing damage to both item and target.Actually, the damage to the object used occurs even when you blast.
You throw a nearby unattended object at a single foe as a ranged attack. The object must weigh no more than 5 pounds per kineticist level you possess. If the attack hits, the target and the thrown object each take the blast's damage.That's why you should be using something expendable, like a deck of cards...
I wonder whether you even could do a full melee attack with a regular object at high levels if it gets blown to bits by the first hit.
The idea with suggesting telekinetic blast for the use of a rod is more to circumvent the restriction on holding something while gathering energy. While it's not super useful, using the rod as a kinetic blade focus ignores the restriction on holding it and allows you to use it's effects for that telekinetic blade.