Rate the Occult Classes


Product Discussion


As simple as that,give each one of them a grade between 1 (terrible) and 10 (the most awesome class ever conceived) and if possible explain your reasoning for the grade.

Here's mine:

Kineticist: Seems a fun really well built class even if a bit complex to grasp, I like how two different kineticists don't need to look similar at all and still be very playable).
Grade: 8/10

Medium: A decent class, all things considered. The base idea is neat, giving you a character able to fill any gaps in team composition as need arises. Yet the implementation feels a bit lacking. Some spirits are good, or very good even (like champion) but some others just don't cut it.
Grade: 6/10

Mesmerist:: The anti bard seems fun, really. Debuffs to will saves are nasty if paired with a spellcaster with save or suck spells (i.e. 90% of them) and the class is just follows its background very well. Nicely done imo.
Grade: 8/10

Occultist: I must confess I don't like the implement mechanic very much nor I like mental focus either. Seems way too contrived to me and honestly I'm not a huge fan of carrying around a pleathora of items just to be able to focus on them.
Grade: 4/10

Psychic: A full caster with character. While not overpowerful (but still very, very powerful of course) it's a class with style and potential to give people who love casters something different to play for once. Personally I love Self Perfection discipline.
Grade: 7/10

Spiritualist: This one is my favored occult class. I love everything from it, I like how it is ballanced the fun things it can do and the different focus each phantom grants. I'm probably biased, but reading through the rules I got at least 5 ideas for new characters, and to me that means the class wants to be played and suceeds.suceeds at being interesting and making people want to play it.
Grade: 9/10


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Disclaimer, I've played none of these.

Kineticist: Neat concept vulnerable to heavy min maxing.
7/10

Medium: Neat concept in need of a boost to default spirits.
7/10

Mesmerist: Neat concept in need of a nonspecific alignment version.
7/10

Occultist: A great replacement for the wizard, and cool archaeological based spellcaster in general.
9/10

Psychic: A neat concept that suffers from vanilla mechanic's poor implementation of ability scores.
7/10

Spiritualist: A neat concept that possess several quirks that seem to keep it from being a decent class.
6/10

Sovereign Court

Knitifine wrote:

Mesmerist: Neat concept in need of a nonspecific alignment version.

7/10

I'm unsure what you mean, the Mesmerist doesn't have an alignment restriction.

-----

Kineticist: Very cool in theory and practice, but very hard to pin down power-wise against more traditional classes. Fun to play, but might not be what some are looking for.
7/10

Medium: A class very much dependent on the campaign setting, as several base features will be unused in many. The spirits themselves are great and allow for variety while not be overwhelming, but locations may make it difficult to use anything but the Relic Channeler archetype depending on the game.
5.5/10 (Personally: 7.5)

Mesmerist: Theoretically inferior to an enchantment-focused full caster, but stare debuffs makes it play excellently with them. Not much in the way of martial ability, but tricks are amusing defensive abilities that contribute to a pseudo-bard playstyle. Very fun and interesting to play.
8/10 (Personal Favorite)

Occultist(*): On paper, the Occultist is a fascinating take on spellcasting and contains a great deal of variety in its potential abilities. Seems like a natural fit for those who might want to play a 6th-level caster Wizard.
7/10

Psychic(*): A class I was unimpressed by in the playtest, and that really lives or dies by the new OA spells it learns. I have the least experience with it of the new classes as of right now.
6?/10 (Personal Least Favorite)

Spiritualist: Rich in concept, but suffers from certain emotions having ill-conceived abilities and Phantoms in general feeling weaker than other companions. I would like to be pleasantly surprised by this class later, but I'm not convinced it will be as successful as a Summoner or Hunter in many campaigns.
6/10

(*)-I have not personally played these two classes yet.

EDIT:
Personal Favorite of all time- Bard 10/10: Bard is a class I feel most others should strive to be. It contributes to the party, as a whole, while also being able to accomplish many roles, with additional focus on any via archetypes/spells/feats being viable and rewarding options.

Least Favorite of all time- Shaman 3/10: I would not rate something less than a 3 unless it was abjectly broken and basically unplayable without numerous houserules. Shaman only gets close to that low because of the weirdness of having a terrible spell list (slightly fixed by the errata) awkwardly balanced around the fact that they can get Cleric and Wizard spells with little effort. Spirit options are also incredibly unbalanced internally, with 2-3 distinctly better options, most of which force you into a melee role to use their abilities effectively.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

For scale, it'd be neat if people also rated their favorite and least favorite classes from any first party source.


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Kineticist: One of my favorite classes in the game, also one of the most versatile classes you can get without being a spellcaster.
Could do with some more low level talents and MAYBE single target damage (I'm not convince on this yet).
9/10

Medium: In the right campaign this class could be incredibly fun, it's also mechanically powerful. Just wish spirits weren't dependent on the area you're in.
7/10

Mesmerist: I feel like they aren't quite the perfect anti-bard (a class which I would give a 9/10). They just aren't quite as versatile. But what they are is an amazing debuffing class and one of the best ways to make a character who focuses on debuffs.
8/10

Occultist: I love the idea, I love the theme, but I am not in love with the implementation. Perhaps I'll change my mind once I have seen them in play.
6/10

Psychic: Probably one of the better full casters as far as flavour goes, but ends up feeling kind of basic and bland.
6/10

Spirtualist: My favorite rendition of the summoner, not too powerful and incredibly flavourful.
7.5/10

My least favorite class that's first party is definitely the Gunslinger.

My favorite is harder to decide, I really like 6th level casters though.


Petty Alchemy wrote:
For scale, it'd be neat if people also rated their favorite and least favorite classes from any first party source.

Uhm..? Occult adventures is a first party source.

Lukas Stariha wrote:
I'm unsure what you mean, the Mesmerist doesn't have an alignment restriction.

As discussed in another thread, the capstone ability to permanently control a person's body against their will for the rest of your known life is debatably the most evil ability ever printed for a class without an alignment restriction, and in certain groups (like mine) it will not fly as a playable class because of it. (Much like the antipaladin and the restriction to constantly be doing wanton acts of cruelty).


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You're going to ban a class because of a capstone? Does your group do a lot of max level play?


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The Pale King wrote:
You're going to ban a class because of a capstone? Does your group do a lot of max level play?

Yes, we do. However let me preempt what could be a huge diversion of this thread for alignment discussion to say if you want to talk specifically about my opinions on the Mesmer a private message or a post here would the the right place.


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You guys remember the bad old days? 1st and 2nd edition? Yeah, they were fun at the time and us older guys have great memories of them, but if you go back and play again now, you'll just notice how weak of a system it really was. And sometimes frustrating, if you had an aggressive DM; deaths were really hard to fix, almost all poison caused instant death, and fireballs could melt you entire inventory. We really have come so far that "this class does %20 too low of damage" really does seem minor. That being said....

Kineticist: A cool re-skinning for the beloved warlock. While damage looks somewhat lower than an archer fighter, they get secondary effects like entangle, stagger, and blind. They also get a handful of utility spells, usable almost constantly. I think an arcane archer is the most comparable class. I don't not like how complex the burn mechanic felt. I think it would confuse inexperienced players.

Medium: Well, it's better than the beta version. When things are running-as-intended, it seems pretty decent, but it leaves a lot to the GM, which can be really good or pretty bad.
The biggest is the site to summoner your spirits; while the class is balanced around the concept that you can choose which of six mini-classes you want each day, the locations are going to be down right rare in many adventures. Unless you are in a city, the GM has to ignore this rule, or generously provide you with a choice or two per day.
The second; getting turned into a NPC. This can be annoying, as one player goes to play gameboy for the next hour, or if the GM doesn't feel like playing YOU "passively" he can run off with you doing god know what. Your lucky if all your inventory is still there in the morning and you aren't "wanted" for some crime.

Mesmerist:: An inverted psychic bard. Looks pretty good.

Occultist: I think these guys are a remake of the Incarnate class from 3.5. While being able to manufacture your own magic items "for free" helps, the access to only a few arcane schools per day, and being on a slower spell progression than full casters really hurts. I think they look like not-so-awesome magi.

Psychic: A psychic arcanist. I like the departure from weird crystals and ectoplasm and more of the subtle mind-tricks, mental blasts, and telekinesis that you'd expect to see from a psychic. Looks pretty solid and no crazy mechanics.

Spiritualist: I love the concept, but this ghost-summoning-psychic seems pretty lackluster. Weaker summons than a summoner and weaker spells than a druid. The phantom's rules also seem complex and confusing. On one page it says they can use armor. In a later page it says they can never wear armor. Am I missing something about why the phantoms need good charisma? 3 of the 7 don't use charisma for anything. I guess you could have them haggle for your party and seduce bar maids....

My least favorite class is the gunslingers or the musket master or pistolaro variety.

My favorite is the ranger. While not the best at anything, a well built one will almost always have something useful to do.

Sczarni

I'm loving the book so far. I've seen / played a couple of the classes in PFS play and they really rocked the joint!

  • Kineticist[6/10]
    For me this is the least interesting OA class. Spamming ranged touch attacks with elemental damage, get some nice tricks, max CON. Kind of boring, imo. If your party needs a 'martial' type or AoE, this class would be good to put in the hands of the guy who usually plays barbarians.

  • Medium[7/10]
    While it certainly takes some effort to make it work, in the hands of the right player this can be a beast. Only thing I don't like are the locations and subsequent handwaving required. The rogue that should have always been. Also flavorable into any direction you want, it's really that versatile.

  • Mesmerist[9/10]
    As others have stated, this guy fills the role of 'anti-bard', and does so remarkably well. Anything with sneak attack will love him. Also being able to mind control most things usually immune to such effects is a blessing. Makes for a great party face, too!

  • Occultist[9/10]
    On par with the mesmerist, but in a completely different direction. I saw a conjuration focused occultist absolutely tear apart encounters, but much less forceably so that say, a summoner would. It can be build in as many different ways as a Medium can, but is more focused on the magic side of things. All in all, if you want to fiddle with a truckload of options, this guy will more than satisfy.

  • Psychic[10/10]
    First of all I must admit I'm a bit biased, as I have one of these and he's my first full caster PC. I took the Tranquility discipline and some metamagic to boost detect thoughts; they're the only ones to get detect thoughts as a 1st-lvl spell. I use it on every door we meet. Eventually I will play him as a divination/support specialist, being able to protect the minds of my teammates while always being one step ahead in the information department. I'm not a big fan of the sorcerer, so to finally see an INT-based spontaneous 9th lvl caster was a relief. All the awesome flavor is just gravy.

  • Spiritualist[7/10]
    While I'm personally charmed by the concept of this class, I can't get my head around the spell list. They get a kind of 'nerfed' psychic list, full of spells that are a little underwhelming. That said, the phantom 'stages' mechanic is awesome. Players who like pet classes will love this one too.

For reference: My favourite (non-OA) class is Shaman, and my least favourite is Alchemist. Shaman because they're the most versatile class i've ever played, Alchemist because it is, quite blandly so, OP. But that's a topic for a different thread.


Kineticist(9/10)- This my favorite classes from this book, it's a class that focuses on sp/su abilities. We need more classes that fit into that category. It also has an interesting flavor, something the warlock never had.

Medium(6/10)- Interesting flavor and abilities but game mechanics wise I find to be lacking. I could see some great stuff happening when you become possessed, if DM isn't a total jerk anyway.

Mesmerist(8/10)- Has good flavor, abilities, and simple game mechanics wise. Plus it makes a great top hat wearing mustache twirling villain.

Occultist(5/10)- It is the least interesting class and has my least favorite game mechanics of all the classes.

Psychic(8/10)- Much better then the playtest, I like the flavor, mechanics, and abilities of the class. Though I wish there were more disciplines in the book.

Spiritualist(8/10)- Has good flavor, less complicated game mechanics, interesting abilities, good spell list and I like the phantom mechanic. I do wish they gave the phantom positive emotions like joy, love, etc.

My favorite class is the Sorcerer. Though the Kineticist and Swashbuckler are a close 2nd.

My least favorite would be the Samaria(and too lesser extend the Cavalier).


Kineticist 8/10 - Looks relatively solid, though I don't like how the burn mechanic works (nonlethal damage that can't be healed + limited pool of resources). Conceptually really cool, which is in many ways more important. Very complicated to run though, which is a negative for me.

Medium 6/10 - Mechanically very weak but conceptually the most interesting for me. My first take on this class made it seem significantly more powerful, but with the hardcover in my hands I'm now less and less sure this class could survive at the tables I play at. This class functionally has two mechanics. Spirits, many of which allow it to be a weaker version of an existing class, and spirit surge. Spirit surge is a hideously limited mechanic with only a handful of uses per day until the highest levels. Frankly it's word count is way too high given its severe limitations. My initial feeling is that it should have been a 6th level caster as a base, not a 4th level, and/or that it should be easier to tap into other spirits throughout the day before very high levels. In addition, it really could have used some free floating feats. Generalists generally don't do well, and generalists that have to try and pretend to be a specialist each day just end up as dead weight. It's a real shame for me, because I'd love to have a true generalist / jack of all trades, but the medium doesn't have the tools required to do so. I could definitely see a Medium / Occultist style blend though that was quite interesting. Investing in items as you use them (rods, weapons, armor, etc), and having more freedom to swap focuses would both be big steps forward for this concept. Look at the 3.5 Chameleon as a baseline for many of the tools required for a generalist to be successful. Ability to swap on demand during the day that scales, rather than leaps late in the class. Ability to change up a feat to be better at given skill. And so forth.

Mesmerist 8/10 - Really liked this class, surprisingly. Reverse bard is a good way to think about it, and overall it feels solid. Not particularly strong, but solid. In many ways feels patterned after the summoner, with a key trick and a strong spell list and selection of secondary tricks to back it up. Lack of dominate monster on the spell list was a surprise though conceptually, and the spell list overall is missing a few things. I also thought that the hypnotic healing aspect was underutilized, and is probably where I’d go to buff up the class if I concluded such was needed.

Occultist 6/10 - Another class that mechanically feels like it is weak and lacking direction. 6th level spellcasting didn't have to be an impediment, but the spell lists themselves were remarkably bad. Zero early spell access that I could see on a class that is primarily a spellcaster. Overall the occultist feels like it was the result of the spellcaster driven hatred that so many on these boards love to profess - and is paired down in ability as a result. The entire spell list needs to be rewritten from scratch in the same spirit as the original summoner's spell list. Limit them to 6th level spells, but give them early access to key spells, and include higher level spells on the list. Do that and this class becomes very solid. Until then I cannot possibly see one in play. None of the implement powers are worth capping at 6th level - and I'd probably feel the same way if you got every power and every spell on the list for your given implement. Compare the tricks they get with, for instance, the oracle or witch’s revelations / hexes. Across the board I tend to find their abilities weaker.

Psychic 7/10... I guess? - Lets call a spade a spade. This is a psychic magic version of the sorcerer. As a result it has all the weaknesses and strengths of the sorcerer. That's not bad, in and of itself, but I had much higher expectations from Paizo. I'd really hoped we might get a truly interesting and unique psychic class, and instead this just feels bland. As a full 9 caster it's never going to feel weak, but the phrenic amplifications feel tacked on to me. I don't care for them at all, and that's before we get to ones like synaptic shock (confused with no save?). By far the most interesting part here was the SLAs that can be powered by spell slots. I thought that was really interesting, opened some new doors for me, and could have been expanded on a great deal. Can't really tell about the Spell list - I really hate that printing method - but I do notice off hand no gate, which seems odd.

Spiritualist 4/10 - Utterly underwhelming, both conceptually and mechanically. Feels like a weaker and derivative summoner in every way, and some of the limitations feel arbitrary and ill conceived. Jealousy in particular. Spell list is weak, abilities other than phantom are limited. Why would you ever play one of these? I feel like there was a huge missed opportunity relative to medium. You could have built this class as a counterpoint to the medium, physically manifesting phantoms that drew upon the same archtypes. It would have given the class mechanical distinction from the summoner, and allowed it to go another direction. Imagine calling up a phantom of a archmage for a companion with limited casting (an option removed from the summoner during its playtest) or a phantom of a marshal to provide buffs. This could have been an amazing jack of all trades. Instead it fell flat in my opinion. Incorporeal summoner with bad spell list. Meh.

For comparison, I particularly like both the design and implementation, conceptually and mechanically, of the Inquisitor (9/10), Witch (8/10), Investigator (8/10). I am not fond of the Hunter (6/10), Warpriest (5/10), or Cavalier (6/10).


Peter Stewart wrote:


Mesmerist - Really liked this class, surprisingly. Reverse bard is a good way to think about it, and overall it feels solid. Not particularly strong, but solid. In many ways feels patterned after the summoner, with a key trick and a strong spell list and selection of secondary tricks to back it up. Lack of dominate monster on the spell list was a surprise though conceptually, and the spell list overall is missing a few things.

Early entry is one thing, but they're not giving level 9 spells as level 6 much anymore. You can get dominate monster permanently through the capstone, it's triggered by using any other enchantment spell.

Psychics do have Gate on their spell list, look again.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

I just meant rating your most and least liked from any Paizo book, Knit, not that the new book is not first party. Like what Peter did, so we see what the highest score he'd give anything in the game right now is vs. the lowest. Makes it clear Spiritualist is his new least favorite class.


I meant Samurai, can't believe I spelled it "Samaria".


Slithery D wrote:
Early entry is one thing, but they're not giving level 9 spells as level 6 much anymore. You can get dominate monster permanently through the capstone, it's triggered by using any other enchantment spell.

Right, which is a bad change in my opinion, especially with utility spells or iconic abilities. The use of 6th level casting with offset spell levels on the original summoner was what got me on board with it in the first place.

I know they got burned by a lot of the heavy optimization crowd here about early entry wands and crap, but as a guy who's never seen that particular issue at a table the trend towards pairing down of ability is disappointing. 6th casters with focused access to more powerful effects is the type of thing that typically leads to well balanced and interesting classes in my opinion.

Slithery D wrote:
Psychics do have Gate on their spell list, look again.

But my eyes! That printing method is horrible...

Turns out you're right though. My mistake for missing it. Doesn't meaningfully change my commentary however about the psychic.


Kineticist: 7/10 - I like it in concept, but I've found that I can't actually design a character that I want to play. I've seen a lot of people super-stoked about it, though, so that's good in my book.

Medium: 5/10 - I loved the playtest version and the release version just screams "DIP FOR CHAMPION!" One level of a class does not actually translate into an actual class.

Mesmerist: 9/10 - I love the flavor, I love the ability set, but I'm unsure if I actually want to play one.

Occultist: 8/10 - Great flavor, good abilities. Some stuff is wonky (Battle Host dip for a no-misfire gun, Bane availability at level 1), but I really like it overall.

Psychic: 10/10 - Playing one now, devoted a massive GM credit baby to it. Mystic Mickey with the Sick Sticky Icky is a great deal of fun. Atypical disciplines really helped this guy out in terms of flavor vs. other casters, particularly other INT-based casters.

Spiritualist: 3/10 - Fairly good spell list, interestingly WIS-based (I didn't expect that), but the spirit's ability to do incorporeal scouting at will right away is somewhat game breaking. Additionally, the spirits don't scale well for anything else, so a major class feature rapidly becomes a non-factor. Lots of interesting ideas, but I felt it was a poor implementation.

Non-OA favorite: Bloodrager: 10/10 - Pretty much everything about this class was fun and interesting. Several very effective builds were possible without being tied to a single play structure or stat set. I have a reach/trip build using Aberrant, which is distinct from Arcane, Elemental (Air), or any of the other popular constructions.

Non-OA least favorite: Wizard: 1/10 - I hate everything this class embodies and the constant run of adding new material to it that makes the new base classes lackluster (Exploiter Wizard, in particular). I was ecstatic to see that there was no archetype for this class in OA.


Mesmerist 10/10 would bang.


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I love how everyone has the classes rated differently, shows there's something for everyone :-)


Kineticist Occultist and Medium all seem really interesting and I'm excited to play them.

[spoiler=MediumI really like the spirit surge ability as it's the best version of the idea. You get to make the call after you know it's failed, even better than the investigator getting to do it after knowing the roll.
The medium spirits I'm interested in the Marshal and the Champion, the others don't have a draw for me, but I do see the trickster maybe having a nice combo for sneak attack since they get the free flatfooted attack once per opponent.
Also I feel the spirit dancer archetype is pretty sweet if you want the ability to do all the things when you need it done. [/spoiler]

I haven't looked into the Kineticist or Occultist enough to know what I really like, but they seem to have real fun things to play with for me.

The Mesmerist doesn't have a draw for me, nothing excites me to play this class, but I will give it a through look and see if I can't find something I'd want to play.

The Psychic is a 9th level caster, if you're interested in that then I'm sure it has some nice things, haven't looked into it much yet.

Spiritualist seems pretty interesting idea but I feel the implementation is a little lacking.

Favorite class - Investigator
Least favorite - Ranger and witch.


For sure the Kineticist makes me want more classes existing in a similar design space. I'd love to see a go at making martial characters in this way similar to what Path of War did for making martial more like casters.

Community Manager

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Removed a couple of posts—be civil please!


Mid to highish/10: the 6th level casters are all classes I would play, with Mesmerist and Occultist on top. Good occult flavor, and interesting class options.

Disappointed/10: I feel the medium and kineticist should have been martials with cool powers, and it feels like they were both hammered by a desire to prevent versatility. As such, the kineticist is dependant on blasting and nothing else (by blast I meant the class ability not just being stuck damaging opponents), and a medium can get screwed by a RAW happy GM when they are built for fighting but can't get that Champion. I would have liked both to be full BAB just so they could rely on weapons if it came to it.

Hate/10: Psychic. It didn't need so much paper dedicated to it, the flavor is less psychic than any other class, and it can putty up its weaknesses making it easy to optimize. There didn't need to be another full caster who can pump DCs and ignore the designed drawbacks of being a spellcaster. That said, I would play the formless archetype if I for whatever reason chose a psychic over the other classes.

I did like some of the setting rules, and I like the idea of chakras.


Based off of what I've seen I'll just give some overall thoughts.

I really enjoy the flavor of the kineticist quite a bit. Problem is it's so darn complicated that the only real way to get me to see it in action would be for me to find an avenue to play it so I'll hold my judgement of it until later. [??/10]

The Medium feels... oddly dull. From a flavor standpoint the medium is a neat and flavorful idea but its mechanics just don't interest me. The champion is pretty cool but everything else is kinda blah to me. Relic Channeler makes this one a little more interesting. [5/10]

I love, love, love the Mesmerist and Occultist. It's really hard for me to pin down why, but I just really these classes. [8/10 each]

The Psychic feels a little weak when stacked up to other 9th level casters. the spells available to it are made up mostly of mind affecting spells which in a lot of campaigns has a limited range of effectiveness. I think it's a little bothersome when your standard blast attack is ineffective against undead without some sort of outside boost. [or by spending a your finite pool of points to make it work.] [6/10]

The Spiritualist is really lackluster. The phantom is basically just the unchained eidolon with none of the evolution points. It's really underwelming. [4/10]

My favorite classes are the Gunslinger [8/10], Barbarian [9/10], Magus[8/10], and Hunter [9/10]

My least favorite class is the bloodrager [7/10]. Which in all honesty, I don't hate because it's a bad class or poorly designed. No, I'm just a little pouty that it's taking over most of my beloved barbarians old territory.

If we aren't counting that though, I think the ranger [5/10] is super boring.


Take a look at this site to see the classes.


Well, I haven't played any of them in-depth yet. I do appreciate Paizo bringing in psychics without bringing back the scourge that is power points. From first impressions:

Kineticist [7/10]: I love the flavor and it has so many options that I can help liking the concept. On the other hand, it has so many options. I still haven't gone through all the options and figures out how everything works together. Rating might change once I get the hang of it.

Medium [6/10]: I want to like this class, I really do. And I can't fault that it does what it's supposed to do very well. That being said, I'll never play one. It's just not the kind of class I can get into.

Mesmerist [9/10]: All of my yes. It's not perfect, but it's awesome, a wonderful concept and looks like it would be so much fun to play. I also love enchantment spells and mind f#+@ing enemies so this is just my kind of thing.

Occultist [7/10]: Looks like a good time. I'd probably rate it higher if I fully understood it's mechanics. It's got the same flaw as several classes in this book in that it's mechanics are more complicated than I can easily sort out.

Psychic [7/10]: It's basically a psychic sorcerer. I really have nothing I can say to that. It's a full caster. I don't play a lot of these, but it seems functional and I like the theme of the disciplines being how they release their mental power.

Spiritualist [5/10]: My least favorite, period. It's okay, but it's just a pet class. Pet classes are just not interesting in the slightest to me and this pet has potentially great flavor, but it feels bland mechanically.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Kineticist (8/10) - After running the numbers recently I don't really have an issue with the Burn mechanic. The class is oozing with flavor, has some very neat at-will abilities, and can be used in a number of different ways to create a variety of character concepts. Plus it gives me justification to think about an Avatar campaign!

Medium (4/10) - To be fair, I haven't taken the time to actually build one, but I feel like the class gives up too much to be able to change their specialty often. As a result the abilities granted by your spirit don't seem worthwhile and I find myself losing interest. It does look like a good fit for some concepts, though, and I can't find it in myself to rate it lower given my lack of playtesting.

Mesmericist (8/10) - Oh yeah! Reverse Bard! I've always been a fan of 6-level casters due to the many directions you can build in and the Mesmericist does not fail to impress. The Stare abilities make it possible to focus on debuffing enemies, buffing allies, or even getting into combat yourself - potentially all at once! All-around a very solid class that can do just about anything.

Occultist (9/10) - At first I was skeptical - how could a class with such a confusing mechanic be good? - but once I wrapped my head around how Focus works (it isn't that hard once you read it a couple times) I realized that it could be absolutely devastating with a weapon and the Transmutation Implement. From there I ended up building a Gandasa-wielding melee occultist and a longbow occultist, and I was hooked. The spell list looks bad at a glance but I realized you'd end the game with 7 spells known of every level - more than enough to pick up the gems and some situational spells to round it out. My only worry is that some implements, such as Divination and Enchantment, might not be strong enough. This class gave me tons of ideas, and for that it has become my favorite new class.

Psychic (7/10) - I don't typically play full casters. Something about the general inability or unwillingness to get into the thick of things makes them feel weak in my hands. However, after GMing for an Arcanist, I do not underestimate the power of full-casters, and that coupled with the variety of interesting disciplines (the Psychedelia one is perhaps the funniest thing I've ever read) I could see myself using this.

Spiritualist (5/10) - This class isn't one I've looked too closely into, but my initial reaction wasn't very strong - the flavor's great, it fits so many concepts I've thrown around in my spare time, but I just don't see how it's meant to work. With just 2 attacks throughout all 20 levels I just don't see how the phantom is meant to work in combat. There are some neat auras that made me want to toy around with it a bit, and the 6-level casting certainly helps it find a niche, but I was far more interested by the other classes in the book to spend much time figuring this one out.

All in all I can't say I dislike any of the new classes - I've always thought that any class that gives me new ideas and inspirations is a class worth having - but the book as a whole could probably be renamed "Very Advanced Class Guide" without being a misnomer. Some of the new features are confusing, mostly because of all the new terminology being introduced. For all that I still love this book and can easily say it'll be a favorite for years to come.


Something to look at for all the people not liking the Medium is the Spirit dancer archetype, since that one lets you access all your spirits as needed.


I should add my favorite classes are Barbarian (the "good" martial), Magus (probably the best designed pathfinder class), Cleric/Oracle (far more interesting than wizard/sorcerer), Druid/Hunter (my go to shape shifting), and anything using Alchemy because the system is a massive leap ahead in 3.x magic. Please make a 9th level alchemist to have a dedicated low magic caster. Would also like a 4 level alchemy class.

I hate Arcanist, Swashbuckler (basically gimping a great class idea, just go unchained rogue), Summoner (though I like synthesist best, at least they don't break action economy), and Rogue. I don't know why people insist a CRB monk is worse off than a CRB rogue. At least the monk has saves, every rogue I know ended poorly.


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Knitifine wrote:
The Pale King wrote:
You're going to ban a class because of a capstone? Does your group do a lot of max level play?
Yes, we do. However let me preempt what could be a huge diversion of this thread for alignment discussion to say if you want to talk specifically about my opinions on the Mesmer a private message or a post here would the the right place.

High level Wizards can cast Trap the Soul, but they don't have to do it.

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