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Voice acting is better than it's ever been, and many animated films and series' can be quite beautiful.
In many cases, animation is even more crisp and smooth than it's ever been as well, largely thanks to studios like Madhouse and Bones on the anime scene.
The main difference is styles have CHANGED in regards to animation, in much the same way car designs have. Everything is much smoother and less angular, and colors tend towards extremes of DARK DARKS and BRIGHT BRIGHTS and the pastel tones have become a rarity, with a few exceptions.
Just look at works from the same companies then and now. Older Disney films versus the newer 3D ones, or the difference between Cowboy Bebop and Space Dandy in style.
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I thought Frozen was incredibly beautiful--a visual meditation on the nature of ice.
And as much as I love the Last Unicorn--and I do--the voice acting was a mixed bag that would never fly today in a major studio production.
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he unicorn had the softest and most beautiful voice I'd heard since Ms. Brisby (whom I'll come back to later). Even though I haven't watched the movie in years, I'd never forgotten that voice. It's a crime that Mia Farrow isn't voicing more characters in animated movies. Those two annoying childish witches from frozen have HORRIBLE voices, it's so blase I wouldn't remember them the next day. The female characters in how to train your dragon, ice age, kung fu panda (why am I picking on female characters? Because I'm comparing them to a female character in the last unicorn, I'll get to the male characters in a bit), madagascar and oh my God why are each of these movies like 50% comedy?! Their voices are horrible, but then again so are the characters themselves. Mia Farrow's voice brought LIFE to the fairy tale. Then you've got Ms. Brisby voiced by Elizabeth Hartman, it lacked the beauty of Mia Farrow's voice, but it had the power of a loving mother's touch. Either one of these voice actresses would put the entire VA cast of those movies to shame.
Also, the rampant misogyny in this is too exhausting to unpack today, so I'll leave it to someone else.
But in short: apparently young women with strong, assertive voices = "HORRIBLE childish witches." Funny women = UNACCEPTABLE.
Only "soft" and "loving mother"-like female voices = acceptable.
See also the conflation of beauty in women's voices with "good voice acting."
Hey, buddy, women's voices exist for the same reason men's do: to allow us to communicate and express ourselves--not for your aesthetic gratification. And a female character's voice doesn't have to be "beautiful" for her to be well-acted. (And non-soft-and-sweet female voices have places outside "terrifying" crone characters.)
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he unicorn had the softest and most beautiful voice I'd heard since Ms. Brisby (whom I'll come back to later). Even though I haven't watched the movie in years, I'd never forgotten that voice. It's a crime that Mia Farrow isn't voicing more characters in animated movies. Those two annoying childish witches from frozen have HORRIBLE voices, it's so blase I wouldn't remember them the next day. The female characters in how to train your dragon, ice age, kung fu panda (why am I picking on female characters? Because I'm comparing them to a female character in the last unicorn, I'll get to the male characters in a bit), madagascar and oh my God why are each of these movies like 50% comedy?! Their voices are horrible, but then again so are the characters themselves. Mia Farrow's voice brought LIFE to the fairy tale. Then you've got Ms. Brisby voiced by Elizabeth Hartman, it lacked the beauty of Mia Farrow's voice, but it had the power of a loving mother's touch. Either one of these voice actresses would put the entire VA cast of those movies to shame.Also, the rampant misogyny in this is too exhausting to unpack today, so I'll leave it to someone else.
But in short: apparently young women with strong, assertive voices = "HORRIBLE childish witches." Funny women = UNACCEPTABLE.
Only "soft" and "loving mother"-like female voices = acceptable.
There were witches in Frozen? Am I forgetting something?
Or is that just an insult for the two main female characters?
Just an insult for the two main characters.
Elsa is a sorceress. Anna has no magical powers.
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I love the voices used in the last unicorn.
I have always liked Ms. Brisby's voice as well.
I also like the voices of Elsa and Anna as well.
I love the voices used in the last unicorn.
I have always liked Ms. Brisby's voice as well.
I also like the voices of Elsa and Anna as well.
I KNOW, right? CRAZY how women can have different voice types and speak in different manners and they don't have to be played against one another! And just as it's okay for a guy to speak softly and have a light tenor voice OR to have a deep bass voice and speak firmly, it's not offensive for some women to speak firmly and strongly and have clear, focused voices!
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The group that did the Secret of Kells has done one called the Song of the Sea, about a selkie. At some point I need to get around to watching it, since the Secret of Kells was so beautiful.
I'm late to the thread, but if you haven't yet, I highly recommend Song of the Sea.
Grave of the Fireflies is commonly considered the single most depressing animated feature ever made - and I have heard that you should only watch it if you are in such a good mood that your happiness overwhelms people and pisses them off.One of their movies that I was curious to see (at least I think it's theirs) is called grave of the fireflies, it sounds like the time period it's based on is interesting.Be wary of Grave of the Fireflies. I haven't seen it yet, but it's supposed to be incredibly sad and depressing. Really good, but not light.
Grave of the Fireflies will likely haunt you, and it can wreck your mood for days or longer. I strongly recommend not letting kids watch it, as the themes explored are beautifully but brutally depicted. If you have even a sliver of humanity, you will cry. I do recommend seeing it once.
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Also late to the party but...
The red wizard (ohm? or was that the blue wizard?) from flight of dragons was just an absolute beast, you can't get that kind of evil in voice acting again. It was inhuman, it was ancient, it was commanding.
Bro, you realize that Ommadon was voiced by James Earl Jones right? You can't honestly compare ANYONE, past or present, to his voice.
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Sturgeon's Law applies.
Sturgeon's Law always applies.
As far as voice quality in relation to acting goes, it is one component... and, as acting has shifted (especially in the past 50 years with TV becoming so endemic) away from stage production (where voice quality is more important) to more "close up" visuals (where physical attractiveness and the ability to show emotions through facial expression are more important), vocal training is not as emphasized, because it is not as important to movies/TV as it is on a stage. Many of the "older" movie/TV actors were originally stage actors before they were "discovered;" James Earl Jones, for instance, started in Shakespearean theater.
Also, this is extremely similar to the vocal quality considerations in pop music. Many quite successful singers have, frankly, average voices*; this isn't necessarily a drawback, as the lyrics and other production elements may compensate. The truth is, people with voices like Mariah Carey, Whitney Houston, or Amy Lee (the female Evanescence singer) are rare.
*- Madonna and most of the Spice Girls come to mind; and I don't consider screaming (some metal bands) or rap as requiring more than an average voice
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It's all been downhill since opera was pop music, I agree.
(In reality, it's all about genre. Indie music doesn't generally require belters or coloraturas. R&B does. Amy Lee couldn't hold a candle to Beyonce in vocal technique, range, or strength. Every generation of musicians has extraordinary vocal talent, and popular singers whose voices are more average, but whose musicianship is compelling.)
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The more guttural screaming (particularly the kind that produces a "double voice" effect au naturale) requires quite a bit of skill. YMMV on how good it sounds. I'm personally lukewarm on it myself, but I can appreciate the skill required to do it right, especially without destroying the singer's voice within 5 years. When performed properly it's basically Tibetan throat singing with lyrics.
Of course, the trend in metal now is identically voiced boy band sounding doofuses trying and failing to do it right when they clearly haven't practiced either kind of vocals, so it's easy to get the impression that it doesn't.
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From what I understand, the a large portion of death metal singers are classically trained in opera, with some of them being quite well known for it. A lot of death metal bands started as offshoots of symphonies.
he unicorn had the softest and most beautiful voice I'd heard since Ms. Brisby (whom I'll come back to later). Even though I haven't watched the movie in years, I'd never forgotten that voice. It's a crime that Mia Farrow isn't voicing more characters in animated movies. Those two annoying childish witches from frozen have HORRIBLE voices, it's so blase I wouldn't remember them the next day. The female characters in how to train your dragon, ice age, kung fu panda (why am I picking on female characters? Because I'm comparing them to a female character in the last unicorn, I'll get to the male characters in a bit), madagascar and oh my God why are each of these movies like 50% comedy?! Their voices are horrible, but then again so are the characters themselves. Mia Farrow's voice brought LIFE to the fairy tale. Then you've got Ms. Brisby voiced by Elizabeth Hartman, it lacked the beauty of Mia Farrow's voice, but it had the power of a loving mother's touch. Either one of these voice actresses would put the entire VA cast of those movies to shame.Also, the rampant misogyny in this is too exhausting to unpack today, so I'll leave it to someone else.
But in short: apparently young women with strong, assertive voices = "HORRIBLE childish witches." Funny women = UNACCEPTABLE.
Only "soft" and "loving mother"-like female voices = acceptable.
See also the conflation of beauty in women's voices with "good voice acting."
Hey, buddy, women's voices exist for the same reason men's do: to allow us to communicate and express ourselves--not for your aesthetic gratification. And a female character's voice doesn't have to be "beautiful" for her to be well-acted. (And non-soft-and-sweet female voices have places outside "terrifying" crone characters.)
Or... You know... He just doesn't like those particular voices?
I don't agree with the OP, as I think Frozen was a great movie and very well acted... But you're extrapolating a lot from his opinion. Just because he criticized the voice acting of two women, it doesn't come even close to meaning he thinks funny women are unacceptable or that women's voice is only good acting if they are beautiful.
His criticism seems very much based on extra-thick nostalgia goggles, not on misogyny. There's really no reason to jump so quickly to the conclusion that the OP is a bigot.
"This new stuff-made-for-kids sucks! The only good stuff-made-for-kids in history is the stuff-made-for-kids that was made when I was a kid."
Wow... What a fair, reasonable, objective, unbiased and completely unique opinion. Never heard anything like it before.
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I don't know. I think throwing in the gratuitous "witches" for Frozen goes a long way to clearing up any misconceptions about his opinion. It's not like that's not a common misogynistic slur or anything.
To be fair, I think the OP used "witches" literally... I don't think he actually saw Frozen... Or at least didn't pay much attention to it.
Besides, is "witch" even considered a slur? It's an offense, of course, but I don't think it's "heavy" enough to be considered a slur... It's not like the OP called them "the C word".
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I think there's plenty of fair criticism in the choice of voice actors - particularly when the pick is more for celebrated name than vocal skill and range. Cameron Diaz in Shrek comes to mind - she's a fun actor to watch in the roles she plays on screen, but her work as Princess Fiona was the weakest of the primary characters. Mia Farrow's work in The Last Unicorn or even Radio Days (to use a non-animated movie that features her voice prominently) is much better.
But that criticism isn't limited to just women actors - I got quite tired of Billy Crudup shouting his lines as Ashitaka in Princess Mononoke.
I was going to reply with an argument... but I don't think I'm allowed to criticize or disagree (even politely) with certain people/opinions without fear of being censored and/or banned. So I'll drop out of the conversation.
Have a nice day, everyone.
Yes, yes...
Everything made after your childhood ended is bad.
You realize old farts have been saying that for as long as we have recorded rants by them, right?
This is country now:
These are some oldtimers in their depends, just screwing around:
Heck let's go way back, this one had a lot of blues in it, and was covered by a number of bands out of genre:
To me country music is a genre that doesn't exist anymore, at least in what you hear on country stations that play Nashville stuff. Modern country is pop from 20 years ago, with an increasing amount of rap inserted into it. All sung with some incomprehensible accent (too keep it real I guess) that actual coal miners and cotton pickers never had.
Alt country is alive and well I guess. Bluegrass is still around, and never got "corrupted" because there wasn't any money in it.
Kind of sad that my favorite "country" singer now is Corb Lund, from Alberta. Not that I have anything against Alberta, but well you know.
Okay, my argument is that music has declined. I don't think that in general they can play instruments as well, they don't have stage presence or perform as well. There are three bigger problems though.
One is that modern performers and the music business don't seem to be able to write a song. Let's play a little game. Name an iconic TV show theme.
Here's a few to get you started:
Peter Gunn
Perry Mason
Gunsmoke
Bonanza
High Chaparral
Hawaii 5-0
Magnum PI
Gilligan's Island
MaudeNow name me one, or just hum it to yourself from the past 25 years. Other than the Friends theme I got nothin. And if I thought about it, I could add a lot more from pre-1980 like the Andy Griffith theme.
Obviously these are TV theme songs, not standalone works. But if you...
Favoriting this because, while I solidly disagree with the premise, I heart all of those links, dude... XD
EDIT: Yes, I know this post was some time ago. Don't care. Still commenting. Love those links. :D
Also late to the party but...
The red wizard (ohm? or was that the blue wizard?) from flight of dragons was just an absolute beast, you can't get that kind of evil in voice acting again. It was inhuman, it was ancient, it was commanding.Bro, you realize that Ommadon was voiced by James Earl Jones right? You can't honestly compare ANYONE, past or present, to his voice.
I don't know. King Haggard (last unicorn) was voiced by the late great Sir Christopher Lee, which in my opinion, is right up there in amazing with James Earl Jones.
As for the topic: Voice acting is swingy in both old and new animations. The unicorn has a wonderful voice, and I love that woman's voice. Then there's the woman in the same movie who tells Schmendrick "How dare you?" when he turns the unicorn into Amalthea. She has a wonderful voice and I love her voice as well. Two very different types of voices, and both are lovely to me. Mrs Brisby (Frisby in the book) also has a great voice, I agree (and it is one of my most favorite movies). I also enjoy the voices of the "two witches" in Frozen. Kristen Bell is a good actress IMO.
As for the animation styles: It all depends. Things like Adventure Time, Regular Show, Gravity Falls, Steven Universe, Uncle Grandpa, are a brutal assault on my eyes. They even mangled the poor leprechaun on teh Lucky Charms cereal boxes to look like those abominations. Yet people love those shows, and I can't fathom why. Then you have the beautiful animations of Frozen (even if you hate the movie, it was beautiful to look at), Zootopia, Finding Nemo, Kung Fu Panda and many others. Or, if you want to compare shows to shows (which would be a better comparison), the new TMNT show, Avatar, Korra, Avengers.
Rankin and Bass is one of my favorite animation studios that doesn't exist anymore (to my knowledge). They made The Last Unicorn (not Disney), The Hobbit from 1977, Flight of Dragons, ThunderCats, Rudolph's Shiny New Year, the other stop animation movies like Rudolph. However, some of their character designs are terrible (like the goblins in Hobbit). Also not all animation back then was geared to children.
There was a lot of crap back in my childhood when it comes to cartoons (born 1981). I LOVED He-Man, Transformers, GI Joe, etc. Have you tried to watch He-Man again? I have. It was one of my most favorite shows. I couldn't really watch it again. He-Man's voice sounded like he was recording in a long empty tunnel. A lot of the animation quality back then was cheaply done. HOWEVER! Not everything remembered fondly is "just nostalgia". A lot of stuff back then was and still is better overall than a lot of stuff now. A lot of stuff now is better overall than a lot of stuff back then, too.
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I don't know. King Haggard (last unicorn) was voiced by the late great Sir Christopher Lee, which in my opinion, is right up there in amazing with James Earl Jones.Also late to the party but...
The red wizard (ohm? or was that the blue wizard?) from flight of dragons was just an absolute beast, you can't get that kind of evil in voice acting again. It was inhuman, it was ancient, it was commanding.Bro, you realize that Ommadon was voiced by James Earl Jones right? You can't honestly compare ANYONE, past or present, to his voice.
Point taken. Amend statement to 'anyone in present day'.
Besides, is "witch" even considered a slur? It's an offense, of course, but I don't think it's "heavy" enough to be considered a slur... It's not like the OP called them "the C word".
"Witch" is often used as a more acceptable placeholder for a word that is very similar but begins with a B. Not always of course, but it is certainly done.
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"Witch" is often used as a more acceptable placeholder for a word that is very similar but begins with a B. Not always of course, but it is certainly done.
Besides, is "witch" even considered a slur? It's an offense, of course, but I don't think it's "heavy" enough to be considered a slur... It's not like the OP called them "the C word".
Guessing that is a regional thing, cause I can't say I have ever heard it used that way.
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Besides, is "witch" even considered a slur? It's an offense, of course, but I don't think it's "heavy" enough to be considered a slur... It's not like the OP called them "the C-word".
There was also a time not too long ago in the grand scheme of things, where it was a term used against women (and sometimes men, though eventually warlock supplanted it) that were smarter than they were expected to be, often resulting in the woman being killed so that "good, honest" folk would be spared from her devilry of daring to know anything beyond housework and child-rearing. Think back to the Inquisition or the Salem Witch Trials.
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Guessing that is a regional thing, cause I can't say I have ever heard it used that way."Witch" is often used as a more acceptable placeholder for a word that is very similar but begins with a B. Not always of course, but it is certainly done.
Besides, is "witch" even considered a slur? It's an offense, of course, but I don't think it's "heavy" enough to be considered a slur... It's not like the OP called them "the C word".
Picture a couple guys at a bar, one of them tells the other about this manager he really doesn't like: "Yeah, she's a real witch".
He isn't implying that she curses people or transforms victims into frogs, curdles milk, has green skin, rides a broom to work, or has a penchant for pointy black hats. He's using it as a placeholder.
If ye be "jonesing" for some more recent Mia Farrow animated voice-overs, Arthur and the Invisibles plus both sequels, along with Sarah should have you covered.
And while it isn't a voice-acting gig per say, the As We Forgive documentary has her doing some narration work.
Guessing that is a regional thing, cause I can't say I have ever heard it used that way."Witch" is often used as a more acceptable placeholder for a word that is very similar but begins with a B. Not always of course, but it is certainly done.
Besides, is "witch" even considered a slur? It's an offense, of course, but I don't think it's "heavy" enough to be considered a slur... It's not like the OP called them "the C word".
Picture a couple guys at a bar, one of them tells the other about this manager he really doesn't like: "Yeah, she's a real witch".
He isn't implying that she curses people or transforms victims into frogs, curdles milk, has green skin, rides a broom to work, or has a penchant for pointy black hats. He's using it as a placeholder.
I can't say I would ever have associated it as a placeholder. In that context it has similar, but importantly different connotations.
Point taken. Amend statement to 'anyone in present day'.I don't know. King Haggard (last unicorn) was voiced by the late great Sir Christopher Lee, which in my opinion, is right up there in amazing with James Earl Jones.Also late to the party but...
The red wizard (ohm? or was that the blue wizard?) from flight of dragons was just an absolute beast, you can't get that kind of evil in voice acting again. It was inhuman, it was ancient, it was commanding.Bro, you realize that Ommadon was voiced by James Earl Jones right? You can't honestly compare ANYONE, past or present, to his voice.
There are lots of great voices out there, particularly if you like watching Ken Burns's documentaries.
For contending with James Earl Jones and Christopher Lee - I like Keith David. Love his voice-overs and voice acting.
*loves Keith David* :)
My favorite animated movies are Wreck-It Ralph and Inside Out.
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There's an argument for 2 months Chris?
Also still think they should give more work to Travis Willingham.