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Hello everyone,
I have been going back and forth for a long time now, trying to find a balance between martial and arcane that would suit my fancy.
I have built full martial classes with a single dip in wizard or sorcerer just to grant them access to wands, then proceeding in totting them around in a wrist sheath, and zapping Shield, Mirror Image, or Fly immediately before combat.
I have built full martial classes with an investment in UMD for about the same purposes, and found they offer greater versatility than the above.
I have multiclassed Investigator with Fighter, Alchemist with Fighter, Bard with Fighter (I love Fighters if you haven't noticed), Arcane Bloodragers, Skalds, and endlessly drilled the community for options regarding how to go about doing what I have in mind.
My main question would be: what would be the best option to build a character that can hit as hard as a two-hander will allow (maybe throwing some reach shenanigans into the mix), but at the same time be able to buff himself in an efficient manner, mainly defensive and utility wise (I'm thinking Shield, Blur, Mirror Image, even Fly, Haste, Invisibility, etc)?
My idea is to build a martial that has an edge over what is usually expected - what I mean is, if he is exchanging hits with a bad guy with a strong to-hit, it will make a HUGE difference if a Mirror Image popped up; and if he is facing multiple opponents with low to-hit, perhaps a Shield spell would make the difference; Fly to chase a pesky flying archer, etc, etc. The versatility can be endless.
I have a couple of specific doubts regarding all this, but would really like to hear the experts opinions before I start firing away :D
So... I was actually in the middle of building a melee Investigator when I suddenly realized I had been, for some reason, dismissing all those people that suggested me to play a MAGUS. I'm not going to dismiss it anymore, as I can't really put a finger on why I was dismissing it on the first place, though I feel it was due to all Magus looking alike to me (I blame it on my lack of knowledge of the class).
I have read a lot about the class, but still I have many persisting doubts, so I thought about just starting simple, and if you would be willing to lend me a hand, progress through all of them and end up with a Magus in my hands - It may actually be exactly what I have been looking for ;)
First question: For some reason, I prefer Strength over Dexterity (actually I prefer both, as an example, my 'go-to' stat spread on a martial is 17, 14, 14, 14, 10, 8. And if on a 25 pt buy, I usually raise Wisdom to 12, and Charisma as high as possible - 11 I believe?). That being said, what are the main differences between a STR Magus and a DEX Magus?
Thank you for the input , though it does lead me into several other questions, namely:
- Why Bladebound? Is it due to the reduced level scope of PFS, allowing you to save money on your weapon, the feel, or any other reason?
- As for two handed shenanigans, what prevents you from two-handing your katana when you are not using spell combat/strike?
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Hey old friend --
Having played with you in multiple games I do think a strength magus would be an awesome fit for the kind of characters you like to play.
Bladebound can be awesome in PFS. At early levels it is a major money saver. Moreover, a lot of people like intelligent weapons for the same reason that I like animal companions and familiars. They're fun to roleplay.
As for two handed shenanigans (love that word) I've seen some magi who do spell combat all the time because they cast arcane mark and "mark" their kills with their blade.
Hmm
Warpriest is also another buffing warrior type to consider but yeah, magus is frickin awesome.
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Spell combat requires a 1 handed weapon. Spell strike you can use it with any melee wep you want to. Bladebound, I would pass because I don't trust intelligent weapons(GM can screw you over that one - like singing swords when you're trying to sneak on people). Or weapons I have to wrestle to get my arcane pool points out off, and the loss of a magus arcana, and never being able to use a familiar. The arcane mark thingie is considered cheesy by some tables, and you may be disallowed using it. I suggest you also take hexcrafter archtype, for brand, then you can legitimately spell combat anything you want with it. Also, slumber hex at 4 is something you can do all day long(but GM might throw a book at you, despite it being 100% legit). Awesome!
If you take hexcrafter you want to start with int of 16 minimum, as a nastier slumber hex is just pure gold. Suggested readings:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nler?A-Guide-to-Touch-Spells-Spellstrike-and-S pell
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fSJuL1O4hs15NMk-y4MXbH9D_qt9V7iwhY2y9HD rs74/mobilebasic
Do you mean the Brand Spell? Its an Inquisitor spell. Or is there a Hex I am missing?
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Spell combat requires a 1 handed weapon. Spell strike you can use it with any melee wep you want to. Bladebound, I would pass because I don't trust intelligent weapons(GM can screw you over that one - like singing swords when you're trying to sneak on people). Or weapons I have to wrestle to get my arcane pool points out off, and the loss of a magus arcana, and never being able to use a familiar. The arcane mark thingie is considered cheesy by some tables, and you may be disallowed using it. I suggest you also take hexcrafter archtype, for brand, then you can legitimately spell combat anything you want with it. Also, slumber hex at 4 is something you can do all day long(but GM might throw a book at you, despite it being 100% legit). Awesome!
If you take hexcrafter you want to start with int of 16 minimum, as a nastier slumber hex is just pure gold. Suggested readings:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nler?A-Guide-to-Touch-Spells-Spellstrike-and-S pell
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fSJuL1O4hs15NMk-y4MXbH9D_qt9V7iwhY2y9HD rs74/mobilebasic
Well, then you've got nothing to fear, the black blade is telepathic and can only communicate with its magus.
The black blade's mission is assigned by the GM, or campaign management in this case. Its goals usually align with the player's, and campaign management hasn't said otherwise. As long as you're not being a complete dick and doing something expressly against the Society's goals, any given GM should have absolutely no reason for the blade to try to force its will over yours.
Also, for PFS, regardless of how cheesy arcane marking is (there are far worse things and things that are obviously more questionable), a GM can't preclude you from doing it because it's about as legal as it gets.
@Hmm: I am honored to see you in one of my threads Hmm, as I have taken your advice to heart many times, from other threads. How did you know that was me? :P
Now... I'll just keep throwing questions: I can understand the money saving aspect of Bladebound in PFS, as I can also understand the 'awesomeness' factor of having an intelligent weapon :D
But there has got to be more to it than that, no? I mean, it is not mandatory, but no one plays an archetype to save money. Do they..?
As for the 'arcane mark' mark shenanigan (this one was for you Hmm) - how 'exactly' does it work?
@MeanMutton: Exactly why I am trying to understand if they are my kind of awesome ;)
@Just a Mort: Thank you for the input, and I will definitely take a second read at the recommended readings.
Questions: Even though Spell combat requires a 1 handed weapon, what prevents me from using it 2-handed when I am not 'spell-combating'?
As for the intelligent weapons, I assume it 'should' be something useful to the player, but then again, like when dealing with any intelligent creature, it might be a double edged endeavor :D
The slumber hex is definitely something worth looking at, but it 'feels' repetitive - I am in fact looking for versatility as well as efficiency, instead of buffing a single trick into oblivion.
I think that is also the reason why I have shied away from Magus - I get that nasty 'shocking grasp all day long' feeling... I am surely wrong.
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1 - Even though Spell combat requires a 1 handed weapon, what prevents me from using it 2-handed when I am not 'spell-combating'?
2- As for the intelligent weapons, I assume it 'should' be something useful to the player, but then again, like when dealing with any intelligent creature, it might be a double edged endeavor :D
3 - As for the 'arcane mark' mark shenanigan (this one was for you Hmm) - how 'exactly' does it work?
1 - That's not what he said, he said Spell Combat requires a one-handed weapon. Spell Combat itself requires one hand for the spell, and one hand for a weapon because as it says it is basically two-weapon fighting. You can Spellstrike with a two-handed weapon just fine. So when you are specifically not full-round-spell-combating you can use a two-handed weapon (though you shouldn't and the closest you should come is grasping your one-handed weapon in two hands).
2 - It being intelligent is only a boon in PFS. Basically it gets its own perception checks which you get the info for because it's telepathic and will tell you immediately. You should never have to vie for control over your black blade in PFS for my reasons above.
3 - Spell Combat is basically casting a spell with one hand then full attacking with your other hand. Spellstrike is "whenever you cast a touch spell, instead of delivering it via your free touch attack, you may instead deliver it with a free weapon attack." These two abilities are almost always combined. So let's say you're level 2. You spell combat and cast shocking grasp. This gives you a free melee attack which you use. You then also get your regular attack. So assuming both attacks hit, you've basically successfully done 2 melee attacks and a shocking grasp.
Now let's say it's the end of the day and you've used up all your spells. Oh look, you thought to prepare Arcane Mark as one of your cantrips. It's a touch spell. So now you can still get your two attacks per round when you full attack by casting Arcane Mark and marking your opponent. Since it's a touch spell you get the free melee attack plus the regular melee attack and your opponent is now "arcane marked" instead of taking the 2d6 from the standard shocking grasp. (again, assuming you're Spell Combating, which you should be if you can full attack)
Arcane Mark is a touch spell; you need to succeed on a touch attack to get it to work.
Spellstrike allows you to substitute your free touch attack that a touch spell gives you with a free melee attack instead (against Full AC, though you deal full weapon damage along with the effect of the spell).
Spell Combat allows you to cast a spell and full attack in the same full round action.
Combine these three together, and you can:
Spell Combat, declaring "Arcane Mark" as the spell.
Take all of your regular weapon attacks as per Spell Combat
Cast Arcane Mark to gain a free touch attack
Deliver your touch attack through your sword as a free attack instead via Spellstrike
So you get all your attacks + 1 extra, at the cost of a 0 level spell (infinite uses) and a -2 to all attacks (similar to TWF).
Ok, so basically, would that mean there isn't much advantage in actually ever 2-handing for example my longsword?
Since in fact if I don't, and the Arcane Mark combo is allowed, I can always get one extra attack with it?
EDIT: Just a Mort, it seems the second link isn't working?
There are cases where you're holding the charge of a powerful spell and you don't want to waste it by casting a new spell. In this case 2-handed attack makes sense.
Also, remember you usually have to pass a concentration check to cast Arcane Mark while adjacent to an opponent.
Arcane Mark is a touch spell; you need to succeed on a touch attack to get it to work.
Spellstrike allows you to substitute your free touch attack that a touch spell gives you with a free melee attack instead (against Full AC, though you deal full weapon damage along with the effect of the spell).
Spell Combat allows you to cast a spell and full attack in the same full round action.
Combine these three together, and you can:
Spell Combat, declaring "Arcane Mark" as the spell.
Take all of your regular weapon attacks as per Spell Combat
Cast Arcane Mark to gain a free touch attack
Deliver your touch attack through your sword as a free attack instead via SpellstrikeSo you get all your attacks + 1 extra, at the cost of a 0 level spell (infinite uses) and a -2 to all attacks (similar to TWF).
This is why the Arcane Mark ability, while a little cheesy, isn't that big a deal. You're basically just giving him TWF. At higher levels, he's going to have plenty of damaging spells so it isn't much of an issue. The only question is if he's going to be as effective at 1st level in combat as your typical TWF rogue.
Ok, so I think I am grasping the bare bones now, so I'll return to my first question:
What are the main differences between a STR Magus and a DEX Magus?
EDIT: Or there is simply not even a reason to build a Str based Magus? :D
STR: Can take Power Attack. Can carry more. Can inflict two-handed 1.5x damage. Can use a wider variety of weapons. No need for any special finesse / dervish dancing feats. Can withstand Strength damage from Shadows, etc.
DEX: Better initiative and AC and Reflex save.
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This is why the Arcane Mark ability, while a little cheesy, isn't that big a deal. You're basically just giving him TWF. At higher levels, he's going to have plenty of damaging spells so it isn't much of an issue. The only question is if he's going to be as effective at 1st level in combat as your typical TWF rogue.
Well, second level. You don't have spellstrike at level 1.
I'd make a dex-based kensai blade-bound magus. That way you don't have to pay for armor or weapons. You'll be able to buy tons of neat stuff that normally you never get to buy in PFS until much later when you've got a higher disposable income.
You believe a Kensai Bladebound is worth it simply from a financial viewpoint then? Keep in mind I'm not necessarily referring to PFS.
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How did I recognize you?
I have "Detect Awesome" as a racial SLA. Of course, you lit right up!
Dex-based Kensai Bladebound Magi are cool, but they are ubiquitous. I really like the idea of you building a strength based magus, in part because it would be a little different.
Hmm
PS I'm flattered that you enjoy my advice posts. Thanks for the compliment!
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I am playing "that" (Elf, DEX-based, Dervish Dance, bladebound, scimitar-wielding) magus, and have had a blast. One of my favorite tricks is:
1. Swift action: make my weapon +5 keen
2. Standard action: cast Vampiric Touch, using a magus arcana to maximize the spell
3. Move action: Go over to a bad guy and say, "Hi, there!"
4. Free attack through Spellstrike
On a successful critical hit (I threaten on 15-20), I get as many as 72 temporary hit points.
One reason the scimitar is such a popular weapon (aside from Dervish Dance) is its critical hit threat range. A critical ht from the weapon on a Spellstrikke means the spell gets double damage.
I have also found that Spell Recall (especially Improved Spell Recall) is a wonderful thing. It almost makes me a spontaneous caster.
Bladebound also have some additional very powerful skills. My favorite is turning your weapon damage into any energy type (even force!). This bypasses dr, and can even hit a vulnerability for 1.5x damage! It is limited though.
If you are looking at a Magus, I found this made it much clearer to me how Spellstrike works and why Arcane Mark was so important.
Strength based Magus can work quite well, you are choosing offense over defense. Generally not a bad idea. I think it would likely be less frustrating as well, since the higher strength would generally allow you to hit more.
As others have said, you will not want to use a two-handed weapon. Instead you could occasionally use a one handed weapon with two hands -- still getting the bonus damage for strength.
The thing that has made me reluctant to do a Magus is concern that I would focus so much on the twiddly bits of combat (how do I use my swift action this round, etc) that I might not track the bigger picture.
Bladebound also have some additional very powerful skills. My favorite is turning your weapon damage into any energy type (even force!). This bypasses dr, and can even hit a vulnerability for 1.5x damage! It is limited though.
The major problem with Bladebound is this limitation on it's pool points. At higher levels, you'd be lucky if it has more than 3 points in it's pool to activate those abilities, and while you can steal points from it (at an incredibly annoying 2:1 conversion), it cannot steal points from you at all. YOu have to be a level 19 Bladebound Magus to get your blade to refill it's pool, and only once you've killed something.
If you had the power to use your own arcane pool for it's abilities, it would be a MUCH better archetype.
Another limitation only exists if you get to level 15+, and that is the greatness of the Bane Blade arcana, which is like the Inquisitor Bane feature, only much better because it lasts much longer and you have generally more uses of it by that level. The problem being, that by level 17, you can add +5 AND Bane to a weapon, but with a +5 Blackblade you run up against the +10 weapon cap. You also lose access to other weapon special abilities you can't get from Arcane Pool, like Spell Storing, which can be a huge damage booster at times.
Last but not least, the 1 arcana cost might be worth it on it's own, but note that it's the first arcana, so you can't take Extra Arcana till level 6 when you actually gain the Arcana class feature. Not as much of a problem now that Arcane Deed has been utterly, utterly destroyed, but still might be an issue if there was any other Arcana you might really like early on.
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2nd link comes from:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ocev?Warlock-STR-Rangers-Guide-to-the-Hexcraft er#1
Descriptive text of bladebound:
"A select group of magi are called to carry a black blade—a sentient weapon of often unknown and possibly unknowable purpose. These weapons become valuable tools and allies, as both the magus and weapon typically crave arcane power, but as a black blade becomes more aware, its true motivations manifest, and as does its ability to influence its wielder with its ever-increasing ego."
Note the "as does its ability to influence its wielder with its ever-increasing ego."
Description for black blade, " The blade typically works toward its wielder’s goals, but not always without argument or backlash. "
Typically, but not always without backlash. My interpretation is that its an open invitation for a GM to screw you over.
"A black blade is bonded to a particular magus, much like a familiar, but in more of a partnership than a master-servant relationship." A partnership, say you? Ever quarreled with your best buddy before? Probably. Same way, you'll get to squabble with your black blade. I just hope it's not in the middle of a fight...
I do not trust anything that the GM can use to impose his will on me. When I first started pathfinder, I did not play any divine casters until much later. This was because of some influence from my Forgotten realms readings, which gods do not always answer their followers prayers, and also I know of a GM who stripped a cleric of their powers (granted, what the cleric in question did was quite bad), and the rollover from that is I still do not play classes with strict codes of conduct (paladin) though there are quite a number of other reasons for that as well.
In short, no one tells me how I should play my character, be it for any reason, and damn if I give the GM a handle to do so.
Of GM's screwing me over(may have said it before):
We were running into someone being tormented by a will-o-wisp at lv 3. After I roll a 23 to hit that thingie and miss, I tell the gm, I'm throwing up obscuring mist and running for the hills. GM says, "Your alignment says Chaotic Good! You can't leave a helpless man to die"
X'cuse me, Chaotic good does not mean chaotic stupid, fighting in a fight you cannot win...
Delayed access to magus arcanas, means less extra hex feats for hexcrafters, who can fly at lv 5 with flight hex.
Hexes imo, just helps a magus's staying power. You don't have to use them all the time, but they are there if you need them. Stuff like evil eye can help you and your allies hit/zap monsters. In a way I prefer hexcrafters to witches, since traditional enemies of witches (all that immune to mind affecting stuff), you can draw your blade on them and start smacking(or blasting, witch list isn't much into evocation, elements patron not withstanding). Which a witch cannot do.
In traditional APs(unless theres lots of constructs and undead involved), hexcrafter really shines as whether you have a long or short adventuring day, you never run out of hexes :)
i guess it comes down to if this is for Society Play (which I have little to no experience with) or a home game. Kensai is pretty awesome, as it gives proficiency and Weapon Focus with a particular weapon.
Human Kensai Magus is pretty nice, as at 1st level you can pick Dueling Sword as your preferred weapon, then pick up Weapon Finesse and Slahing Grace to use Dex to hit and deal damage. At 3rd level I pick the Flamboyant Arcana, the take Combat Reflexes.
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In our home Rise of the Runelords campaign, I played a dwarven Strength-based Magus who was also the party crafter. While he wasn't a min-max master like other characters described in this thread, Dolgar worked very well in and out of combat purely by being a Magus. He also made the entire party better with custom-crafted items.
The one thing I would recommend: don't give up or delay Spell Recall. I found getting spells back and recalling any spell in my spellbook very useful abilities. I think you will too if your adventuring day has any length.
Here's Dolgar's quick profile and final statblock, if you want to look at it.
In PFS I have a Bladebound Hexcrafter, but I haven't been playing him much lately. He's pretty good in combat, though.
I love debuffing and wanted to second Eirikrautha's suggestion for Rime frostbite (I assume he isn't hasted or has a bab over 6 though, otherwise he would be getting more frostbites per round) You can actually take this one step further and apply the Cruel weapon property to sicken, shaken, fatigue, and entangle. With enlarge person on your spell list and a reach weapon you can debuff everyone around you and they will be too slow to reach you on their turn due to entangle. Another fun debuff spell is Chill touch. With a high number of attacks, that str damage can add up. That being said, you mentioned you hate 1 trick ponies (as well you should), but the magus arcana gives you a ton of versatility. Wand mastery comes to mind, allowing you to cast any wand with your int setting the dc (suggested trait Pragmatic activator to make UMD int based instead of cha based). With the ability to nova one attack (crit shocking grasp), to debuff select people nearly at will, add moderate damage to a high number of attacks, and buff himself I think you will have enough options to keep things from getting too repetitive.
Wand wielder can also be pretty cool. Sometimes you'd rather spam truestrike than take two attacks in a round.
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I find that spell recall is no loss, not if you have hexes to make up for it. Spell recall is limited by arcane pool points (which will eventually run out). Hexes can be used on as many targets as you want per day. Im sure you could set up some pretty funky save or die combos with allies (esp with reach weapons), and good use of delaying to the right initiative. More fun if your buddy dipped sohei for mounted skirmisher and is riding on a mount of some sort/is a battle oracle with surprising charge revelation.
Slumber hex --> CDG.
Though I must admit it spoils the GMs fun...
Wow, there is a lot of info here, and very valuable feedback, so first let me start by thanking you guys:
@Hmm: Awwwww chucks! And you are welcome.
@Akerlof: Glass cannon, check - I'll definitely keep that in mind, even though I usually gravitate hard towards frontliners ;)
Also, I will keep in mind the fact that losing Spell Recall is a big hit to Magus. Though... Question: I believe I have read somewhere that (relatively inexpensive) Pearls of Power would go a long way in mitigating this - did I hallucinate?
@Sagotel: I believe your input simply shows that there is absolutely nothing wrong with Dex based Magus (not that I ever thought there was) - they are fun and efficient ;)
@Beopere: I gotta admit that IS a nice ability - there aren't any 'admixture' Magus out there, are they? :D
@BretI: First of all, hi man! And yes, the twiddly bits worry me also, and that is why I have been scouring the thread you linked, as well as this one here. As for offense over defense, I am hoping to also use defensive spells like Shield, Mirror Image, and even it out a tad- it should work, no? Or do you think it is a pure waste of time, and I should go all out DPR?
@Kaouse: Thanks for detailed overview on Bladebound. I think I am beginning to have a clearer picture in my head. But what is Arcane Deed, and how was it nerfed? :D
@Just a Mort: I like your style man - playing your characters how you want is how it is supposed to be. But keep in mind as a player one may 'want' to be placed in moral dilemmas, follow a certain code, etc, etc. Can also be a great challenge and fun.
I am definitely taking a second look at Hexcrafter, and what they lose and gain vs. a 'regular Magus - heard great things about that archetype.
@Eirikrautha: I LIKE that idea, though I wanted to ask you, do you still pack a fearful punch? Also, I think I'm gonna use your input to try and start building my first Magus - by the way, is Magical Lineage on a spell such as Frostbite going to to make someone scream? Because it is not being applied to Shocking Grasp? :D
@Morganstern: Also heard good things about the Kensai - what do you think are its disadvantages?
@Parody: Thanks for the example, I am going to peruse it carefully. And I find it interesting that you refer crafting because... I am a sucker for skills, and it seems as if Magus don't have many of those. I guess Int makes up some in that department?
@Use Headbutt!!: I think those ideas are going directly into my first Magus - I like them, at least in theory. Options is the name of the game :D
@Just a Mort: What if Slumber Hex does not work? What are the alternatives for an Hexcrafter?
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In the meantime, I'm gonna try and start putting a Magus together.
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Yeah, spell recall is not the be-all-end-all of being a magus. Especially when you can buy (or make if not PFS) magic items that do the exact same thing. A 1st level pearl of power is only 1k gold--and those are the spells you're going to want to recall most often.
If you can somehow get a third hand or a Grasping Tail, then you can even use metamagic rods. I'd rather save my feats for not-metamagic feats. And with a rod, you don't have to use magical lineage and can be different than "every other magi" (even though I've never seen two magus that actually are the same, but everyone on the forum seems to think they are).
I played and ran games for several magi in fairly long campaigns. I'm happy to help.
PERKS OF THE MAGUS
The magus has the following strengths that make them uniquely awesome as a martial mage
1) Action economy: The magus can cast spells and attack on the same round. This negates the biggest obstacle to playing an eldritch knight or other gish class. While these other classes good at both magic and fighting, they can't do it at the same time. The magus can.
2) Blasting: Due to spellstrike and spell recall, magi are one of the strongest blasters in the game.
3) Versatility: Spell recall allows a magus to function as an off-wizard since they don't need to sacrifice utility spells in order to use more blasting spells.
STRENGTH MAGI VERSUS DEXTERITY MAGI
Strength magi consistently do more damage than Dexterity magi since they can two-hand weapons and benefit from Power Attack more. However, their AC is lower at low levels. Strength magi can get around this by playing smart since magi have tons of tools for getting in and out of combat. I once played a Strength magus like a ninja with a huge sword using the vanish spell to sneak up on people and one-shot them.
Dexterity magi (using Dervish Dance) are popular because they have fewer weaknesses. Their biggest weakness is weaker damage prior to level 3. Other than that, it's a solid build that takes less skill to play effectively.
TWO-HANDING
The only time you can't two-hand a weapon is when you use spell combat. You can two-hand weapons when using spellstrike.
ARCHETYPES
One of the magus's strengths lie with versatility. Every archetype sacrifices that versatility in some respect. Especially if the archetype loses spell recall, which (in my opinion) is a very underrated ability. Keep this in mind when looking at archetypes. A vanilla magus does an excellent job of functioning as both a fighter and the party's wizard.
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Evil eye is subject to mind affecting, misfortune and cackle are not - however, I'm not sure if you want to devote that many magus arcana for witch style debuffs.
Slumber works on almost anything that mind affecting affects, except for elves and half elves. Of course, the cleric with a will save up the roof is prolly going to resist that slumber hex.
Flight allows a lot of utility early, since you get it the same time wizards do.
Prehensile hair hex - I think its more of a defiler build(sub builds of hexcrafters).
Ice tomb major hex is non mind affecting, but targets fort, which may be an issue - you still cannot use it on constructs or undead.
Waxen image may also have some unconventional use, not on enemies but your allies - you use your standard actiom to move them next to monsters, so when they start their turn, they can take full attack action on the monster.
Grand hexes, forced reincarnation is probably the best.
Your hexes are subject to the limitations that witches are subject to, which means weak vs foes that are immune to mind affecting.
Remember that you have ill omen(mind affecting that is true), being a curse on your spell list also. It has no saving throw, only spell resistance. If there is a save that the party wizard wants the bbeg to fail, hit the bbeg ill omen, followed by the wizard dropping the spell, then laugh as the bbeg rerolls his save at least once(and possibly more then once at higher levels), and takes the worst of them.
Some will say that hexcrafters do not play like the traditional magi, mixing sword and magic, and I will admit there is truth in that, as my hexcrafter plays more like a witch then a magus. But that also is affected by how much you want to invest in hexes. That is indeed one of the drawbacks of hexcrafter, as it eats into your magus flavour.
I will argue that a hexcrafter performs better then regular magi at being the party wizard, as he can do battlefield control by slumber hex all day long, saving his big guns (glitterdust) for fights that need it (ie - multiple foes). A hexcrafter is also likely to piroritize a higher int due to hexes, thus the dc for spells will be higher.
But once you add all of that up, hexcrafter looks like its more suited for party support then other magi, which might not give you enough frontline action. Hexcrafters are powerful, certainly, but are not meant for everyone.
Again, I usually prefer to be the puppetmaster pulling strings at the back, so maybe some of my personal bias is leaking through :p
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That's because everyone is focusing on building the one DPR champion cookie cutter build.Yeah, spell recall is not the be-all-end-all of being a magus. Especially when you can buy (or make if not PFS) magic items that do the exact same thing. A 1st level pearl of power is only 1k gold--and those are the spells you're going to want to recall most often.
If you can somehow get a third hand or a Grasping Tail, then you can even use metamagic rods. I'd rather save my feats for not-metamagic feats. And with a rod, you don't have to use magical lineage and can be different than "every other magi" (even though I've never seen two magus that actually are the same, but everyone on the forum seems to think they are).
I'm not sure why you're responding to me. I specifically said that I've not seen two magus that are the same--even though forumites think they're all the same.
I will argue that a hexcrafter performs better then regular magi at being the party wizard, as he can do battlefield control by slumber hex all day long, saving his big guns (glitterdust) for fights that need it (ie - multiple foes). A hexcrafter is also likely to piroritize a higher int due to hexes, thus the dc for spells will be higher.
I might be inclined to agree, but as you said, it makes them a worse fighter. The biggest problem with hexes is that they're a standard action to use and can't be used with spell combat and spellstrike. It's a good archetype that compromises a major strength of the magus in order to give them pseudo-at-will disables and utility spells for their party.
@BretI: First of all, hi man! And yes, the twiddly bits worry me also, and that is why I have been scouring the thread you linked, as well as this one here. As for offense over defense, I am hoping to also use defensive spells like Shield, Mirror Image, and even it out a tad- it should work, no? Or do you think it is a pure waste of time, and I should go all out DPR?
I think that you need to look to people with experience with the class. I've never played one.
I expect that you will be able to have a reasonable AC on a Strength based Magus, just not astronomical like I've seen on some Kensai Magus other people played at the same table as me.
Shield and Mirror Image will help the defense a LOT. I just don't know what the correct balance is, and I expect that play style will have a huge impact on this.
Cyrad,I humbly disagree, because the hexes are free.
I'm not sure if I understand your argument here. I said the hexcrafter sacrifices some of your fighting ability to function as a better witch/wizard. Because the magus's main selling point allows him to fight and cast spells at the same time. Spell recall directly helps this feature. The hexcrafter shifts his magic power away from spells and towards abilities that can't be used with spell combat and spellstrike. Any round you use a hex is a round you're not stabbing things. Therefore, the hexcrafter encourages you to play more like a witch than a fighter or spellwarrior. You're not as good of a fighter if you're spending turns not fighting.
Nothing you said has anything to do with this.
Ok, so if I TRY to build a STR based Magus then, and keep in mind these are only bare bones please. Lets see:
Human magus 1
AC 16, touch 12, flat-footed 14 (+4 armor, +2 Dex)
hp 14 (1d8+6)
Fort +4, Ref +2, Will +2
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee longsword +3 (1d8+3/19-20)
Special Attacks arcane pool (+1, 3 points), spell combat
Magus Spells Prepared (CL 1st; concentration +3)
. . 1st—enlarge person (DC 13), shield
. . 0 (at will)—arcane mark, detect magic, Frostbite
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Statistics
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Str 17, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 8
Feats Rime Spell, Toughness
Traits magical lineage,
Skills Intimidate +3, Knowledge (arcana) +6, Perception +1, Spellcraft +6, Use Magic Device +3
Other Gear lamellar (leather) armor, longsword, 75 gp
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So, learning from the Frostbite/Magical Lineage combination, this means I can always use Spell Combat to cast Frostbite, and attack twice in a round, all the time.
Meaning at level 1, I could be attacking 2x at +1, and hitting for 1d8+1d6+1, and possible fatigue+entangle. Is this correct?
With Arcane Pool, I can boost this to two attacks at +2, three times a day.
Question time:
What do you guys think of stats/feat/trait selection?
So, correct me if I am wrong but I will be missing most of the time, will I not? I believe I will most likely not be able to 'assume' this will be my default mode of combat. Should I stick with swinging at +3 to hit, for d8+3 to damage, and be a sort of a weaker fighter?
Does he look acceptable for a Magus at this level?
Should I take the human FCB for 1/4 Arcane Pool?
Should I wield a scimitar instead, for the higher crit chance?
I will build him next at level 3, and will throw this out there right away - I am planning dipping Lore Warden at level 3 - bad idea?
You don't get spell combat until Level 2.
Think of it as Two Weapon Fighting with a spell boost, since that is what it really is.
You don't get spell combat until Level 2.
Think of it as Two Weapon Fighting with a spell boost, since that is what it really is.
Spell combat is level 1, spellstrike is level 2.