You don't get spell combat until Level 2.
Think of it as Two Weapon Fighting with a spell boost, since that is what it really is.
I am 99% sure you only get the free touch attack on the round that you cast Frostbite. After that you get the benefits but do not get a bonus attack. So you will run out of double attacks once you run out of first level spell slots.
You might consider Tribal Scars over Toughness as a feat. You also might want to look at Enforcer at third level if you're rocking frostbite. Shaken, fatigued, and entangled off of one attack is pretty sweet.
The to hit penalty is a real problem. That's one of the selling points of shocking grasp. You can also spell combat true strike for near-guaranteed hits. Finally, you can always spellstrike without spell combat. That gives you one melee attack plus the spell effect at full BAB.
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I am 99% sure you only get the free touch attack on the round that you cast Frostbite. After that you get the benefits but do not get a bonus attack. So you will run out of double attacks once you run out of first level spell slots.
You might consider Tribal Scars over Toughness as a feat. You also might want to look at Enforcer at third level if you're rocking frostbite. Shaken, fatigued, and entangled off of one attack is pretty sweet.
The to hit penalty is a real problem. That's one of the selling points of shocking grasp. You can also spell combat true strike for near-guaranteed hits. Finally, you can always spellstrike without spell combat. That gives you one melee attack plus the spell effect at full BAB.
What he means is that Shocking Grasp gives you a +3 to hit if the target is wearing/carrying/is metal.
Also, I'm throwing in 1% to verify that you only get the free touch attack (so free spellstrike) on the turn the spell is cast. However, if you're holding a spell charge, you could spell combat, use your iteratives first to discharge your held spell, and then cast your spell to get a spell strike.
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1) Magical lineage does not reduce the level of a spell. It simply negates 1 level increase from metamagic. This does not allow you to turn a 1st level spell into a cantrip. It also does not allow you to use Rime Spell on a 1st level spell when you can't cast 2nd level spells. It's still the best trait for a magus.
2) If you want to be a Rime Spell specialist, I suggest chilltouch instead. The multiple charges will give you more mileage out of the metamagic.
3) If you want to become more blast-focused, I recommend Spell Focus (evocation) and Spell Specialization as your 1st level feats. A 3d6 shocking grasp or a 3d4 burning hands will one-shot most enemies at 1st level.
4) Your ability scores are fine. As sexy as it feels to have an 18 Strength, I often feel like it's not worth tanking your Wisdom and Charisma even harder.
5) Remember that humans have an alternate racial trait that trades the bonus feat and skill points for a +2 in another ability score. That make for a better long term investment than Toughness if you want more durability. A +2 to Intelligence also means more arcane pool points, skill points, and higher spell DCs.
6) Arcane pool helps both your attack rolls and damage rolls and makes up for your lower BAB. Don't be afraid to use it at early levels since you have no other ways to spend arcane pool points. A +3 at 1st level will work. Remember that (unlike a fighter) you will have spells like true strike and vanish to help you.
7) Scimitars are more optimal, but a longsword is fine. I always recommend picking whatever you find more appealing flavorwise. Magus is the kind of class where your weapon goes a long way towards determining your character's flavor. If you really want the crits, try a cutlass and portray your character as some kind of pirate wizard.
8) I always liked the +1/4 arcane pool FCB. However, that's entirely your preference.
9) Lore Warden is good if you want to focus more on skills or combat maneuvers or if you're a Dexterity magus wanting Dervish Dance one level early. However, I tried lore warden once and hated it so much that the GM let me retrain. It's great at early levels if you want to be more fighter focused. However, it does significantly affect your later game since you'll always be at least 2 levels behind any other caster and the benefits gradually start becoming less useful. The biggest blow is that you can't have both magical lineage and magical knack.
If you want to debuff you might also want to think about using a whip. It is a one handed weapon with reach. That is nice in and of itself, and it really shines by letting you avoid concentration checks in spell combat. The weak damage doesn't matter if it is mostly a spell delivery tool.
Half orcs and elves can get proficiency for free, although you will still want to use a feat on Whip Mastery.
ETA: I've never had a problem in pfs with rime + lineage from very early on. Also, wayang spellhunter and magical knack are perfectly compatible.
1) Magical lineage does not reduce the level of a spell. It simply negates 1 level increase from metamagic. This does not allow you to turn a 1st level spell into a cantrip. It also does not allow you to use Rime Spell on a 1st level spell when you can't cast 2nd level spells. It's still the best trait for a magus.
I'm not sure why you would say this is the case, actually. Magical lineage reduces the spell level of the metamagic spell, so if metamagic would push it to 2 the trait pushes it back down to 1 again. I don't see any language that would prevent you from casting a level 1 spell just because you can't cast level 2 spells.
ETA: I've never had a problem in pfs with rime + lineage from very early on. Also, wayang spellhunter and magical knack are perfectly compatible.
You can't turn a 1st level spell into a cantrip this way. There's an FAQ that specifically addresses this.
I was pretty sure I read something that you can't metamagic a spell if you can't cast the normal adjusted level, but I guess I was wrong in that respect.
I enjoy bladebound due to the role playing possibilities of having a free intelligent magic weapon. The bladebound archetype insists the use of a sword, so if you want two-handed power, I'd go with a Katana or Bastard Sword. These allow two-handed attacks, but also afford you the advantage of easy spellcasting and the ability to fight one-handed. My GM has always allowed the use of Weapon Finesse with a Katana, so a Dex Magus could still work...providing your GM allows the same.
You might also consider going full Fighter, but taking Master Craftsman and Brew Potion. Might take way too much GP, but it's one option.
ETA: I've never had a problem in pfs with rime + lineage from very early on. Also, wayang spellhunter and magical knack are perfectly compatible.You can't turn a 1st level spell into a cantrip this way. There's an FAQ that specifically addresses this.
Yes. But if you look up the traits actually referenced in my post you would find:
Which really has nothing to do with that FAQ. Rather, it was in response to your point that the same character can't take magical lineage and magical knack. Since Wayang Spellhunter is a regional feat you are allowed to take it in conjunction with magical knack if you anticipate dipping in your future.
Next time quote what I was talking about? It's why I usually number my points. The biggest issue I had with the OP's build was that he assumed you could abuse magical lineage to turn frostbite into a cantrip.
My main question would be: what would be the best option to build a character that can hit as hard as a two-hander will allow (maybe throwing some reach shenanigans into the mix), but at the same time be able to buff himself in an efficient manner, mainly defensive and utility wise (I'm thinking Shield, Blur, Mirror Image, even Fly, Haste, Invisibility, etc)?
My idea is to build a martial that has an edge over what is usually expected - what I mean is, if he is exchanging hits with a bad guy with a strong to-hit, it will make a HUGE difference if a Mirror Image popped up; and if he is facing multiple opponents with low to-hit, perhaps a Shield spell would make the difference; Fly to chase a pesky flying archer, etc, etc. The versatility can be endless.
Alternatively, you may better find what you are looking for in a Bloodrager with the Arcane bloodline.
The Arcane Bloodrage, coupled with your Greater Arcane Bloodrage and your Greater Bloodrage abilities allow you to apply the effects of up to three spells, including blur, displacement, haste, mirror image, shield, fly and the like, all as a free action when entering your bloodrage. You then proceed to smash away with the best two handed weapon you feel like picking up.
Primalists can have the best of both worlds and pick up rage powers as well for added shenanigans.
For later levels, the bloodline also grants DDoor for Dimensional Dervish plays.
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Id prolly run something like the following(standard default magus):
Str 16, dex 14, con 13, int 16, wis 10, cha 7
For statline. But that's my hexcrafters starting stats for you. Frostbite/chill touch does not require any saving throw, or at least chill touch the monsters will make the save anyway, so maybe int of 14 is fine.
Bear in mind an elf wizard with 16 for staring dex has a +3 to hit with his longbow, so even if you CAN spell combat, it doesn't mean it's always a good idea.(+1 to hit, I'm looking at you).
Note that combats in pathfinder are generally fast and furious, and some posters will say combat is decided in 3 rounds. That gives rise to the nova-shocking grasp builds. I feel that Frostbite and chill touch are less useful until you get monstrous physique forms, where you can discharge multiple charges of frostbite(doesn't work on undead) and chill touch per round. Then you can really wrack up damage.
Oh and frostbite can never become a cantrip and the golden rule of casters(even 2/3rd casters) is please do NOT multiclass, its not worth it. If you really have to, try to get magical knack, but you wont be able to get magical lineage as both are magic traits.
If I were to redo my hexcrafter today, I'd start as an elf, with the following stats(after racials):
Str 14, dex 14, con 12, int 18, wis 10, cha 8
FCB to extra magus arcana, +2 to pen SR
Reactionary is a good solid trait for init, if you don't want a wayang spell hunter/magical lineage combo.
@Morganstern: Also heard good things about the Kensai - what do you think are its disadvantages?
Kensai aren't proficient with armor, so armor enchantments are harder to get. You also lose a spell of each level you can cast, so 1-less spell per day of each level can hurt.
But the bonuses to initiative, the Int to AC, and the free Weapon Proficiency and Weapon Focus at first level can really help with a build.While the loss of spell recall is annoying, I've never felt it hurt my character at all.
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Kensai IMO are for those who want to play a more fighty kind of magus. Different playstyle.
The defiler variant of hexcrafter (sorry, have not studied that in detail - the aura of cheese on that one is too strong for me) seems to indicate you can mix hexes and melee, much like a reach cleric mixes spells and melee. The basic principles behind that build are you use your movement to be in a position to take aoos, while hexing the bad guys. With combat reflexes, as the bad guys approach and provoke aoo, you lash out with your hair, inflicting all kinds of nasty conditions (entangled, shaken, grappled).
I am 99% sure you only get the free touch attack on the round that you cast Frostbite. After that you get the benefits but do not get a bonus attack. So you will run out of double attacks once you run out of first level spell slots.
Dang! I completely misinterpreted the rules. On the upper hand, NOW I understand much better the 'Arcane Mark' shenanigan (is it legal in the end, or not?) - it simply adds no damage.
You might consider Tribal Scars over Toughness as a feat. You also might want to look at Enforcer at third level if you're rocking frostbite. Shaken, fatigued, and entangled off of one attack is pretty sweet.
Tribal Scars is a nice feat, mainly for the added benefits - we're looking at what? A maximum of 14hp less at level 20 if taking this instead of Toughness? Doesn't seem that big of a difference for the benefits it brings besides hp.
Enforcer would mesh seamlessly, but I'm starting to think I won't have enough feats for what I want - that is why I intended to dip fighter, but most have advised against it ;)
The to hit penalty is a real problem. That's one of the selling points of shocking grasp. You can also spell combat true strike for near-guaranteed hits. Finally, you can always spellstrike without spell combat. That gives you one melee attack plus the spell effect at full BAB.
I was hesitant at first regarding why Shocking Grasp was better on this one, but then I read the spell description more carefully. Also thank you claudekennilol for the added clarification.
Question: If I use spellstrike without spell combat, this means I obviously still need a free hand, unless I cast it in one round, and attack in the next one, correct?
Thanks a lot for the structured feedback Cyrad:
1) Magical lineage does not reduce the level of a spell. It simply negates 1 level increase from metamagic. This does not allow you to turn a 1st level spell into a cantrip. It also does not allow you to use Rime Spell on a 1st level spell when you can't cast 2nd level spells. It's still the best trait for a magus.
Yep, I understand that now :P
2) If you want to be a Rime Spell specialist, I suggest chilltouch instead. The multiple charges will give you more mileage out of the metamagic.
But doesn't Frostbite allow for multiple charges also? One per level, right?
4) Your ability scores are fine. As sexy as it feels to have an 18 Strength, I often feel like it's not worth tanking your Wisdom and Charisma even harder.
5) Remember that humans have an alternate racial trait that trades the bonus feat and skill points for a +2 in another ability score. That make for a better long term investment than Toughness if you want more durability. A +2 to Intelligence also means more arcane pool points, skill points, and higher spell DCs.
I did think about adding to CON, though it just completely throws my skill points out the window... 4 per level is just sad, sad...
6) Arcane pool helps both your attack rolls and damage rolls and makes up for your lower BAB. Don't be afraid to use it at early levels since you have no other ways to spend arcane pool points. A +3 at 1st level will work. Remember that (unlike a fighter) you will have spells like true strike and vanish to help you.
But I have SO few spells... 4 level 1 spells at level 3. Seems so few.
7) Scimitars are more optimal, but a longsword is fine. I always recommend picking whatever you find more appealing flavorwise. Magus is the kind of class where your weapon goes a long way towards determining your character's flavor. If you really want the crits, try a cutlass and portray your character as some kind of pirate wizard.
Makes sense. I like the scimitar - stuff like this or this is just as cool as it gets :D
9) Lore Warden is good if you want to focus more on skills or combat maneuvers or if you're a Dexterity magus wanting Dervish Dance one level early. However, I tried lore warden once and hated it so much that the GM let me retrain. It's great at early levels if you want to be more fighter focused. However, it does significantly affect your later game since you'll always be at least 2 levels behind any other caster and the benefits gradually start becoming less useful. The biggest blow is that you can't have both magical lineage and magical knack.
Yeah, I get that feeling also, but Magus are so feat starved that it seemed like a good option. I'll have to rethink it.
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Question: If I use spellstrike without spell combat, this means I obviously still need a free hand, unless I cast it in one round, and attack in the next one, correct?
You need a free hand when you cast. There is nothing stopping you from taking a free action afterwards to regrasp a falchion with your spellcasting hand and spell striking with the two handed weapon. The only reason this doesn't work with spell combat is because it has text that specifically locks the spell to occupying one hand while making a spell combat full round action, turning the action into quasi-TWF(so both hands can't be on the weapon).
If you want to debuff you might also want to think about using a whip. It is a one handed weapon with reach. That is nice in and of itself, and it really shines by letting you avoid concentration checks in spell combat. The weak damage doesn't matter if it is mostly a spell delivery tool.
Half orcs and elves can get proficiency for free, although you will still want to use a feat on Whip Mastery.
I have always liked the idea of fighting with a whip - however, doesn't it mean investing a LOT of feats to actually having it dealing lethal damage, actually damaging anything with more than 1 AC added from armor or NA, and also not eating AoOs every time you use them?
Because I get the feeling that if not, I will be completely dependent on spells delivered, or maneuvers (which can decay in efficiency from... Level 8 onwards? Am I looking at it wrong?
You might also consider going full Fighter, but taking Master Craftsman and Brew Potion. Might take way too much GP, but it's one option.
Believe me I have thought of that more than once :D
BUT what draws me to the Magus is action economy when casting - theirs is really hard to beat.
Alternatively, you may better find what you are looking for in a Bloodrager with the Arcane bloodline.
The Arcane Bloodrage, coupled with your Greater Arcane Bloodrage and your Greater Bloodrage abilities allow you to apply the effects of up to three spells, including blur, displacement, haste, mirror image, shield, fly and the like, all as a free action when entering your bloodrage. You then proceed to smash away with the best two handed weapon you feel like picking up.
Primalists can have the best of both worlds and pick up rage powers as well for added shenanigans.
For later levels, the bloodline also grants DDoor for Dimensional Dervish plays.
Yep, been there ;) But not only I want to give Magus a try, I also feel the Bloodrager spell casting is VERY reduced (not even going into the fact they only start casting at level 4.
But I fully agree - spells cast as a free action when you rage - that is action economy for you.
I even pondered Magus/Bloodrager (with Mad Magic?), because of that :D
You need a free hand when you cast. There is nothing stopping you from taking a free action afterwards to regrasp a falchion with your spellcasting hand and spell striking with the two handed weapon. The only reason this doesn't work with spell combat is because it has text that specifically locks the spell to occupying one hand while making a spell combat full round action, turning the action into quasi-TWF(so both hands can't be on the weapon).
So I can wield my scimitar/bastard/longsword/falchion in one had, cast the spell with spellstrike, regrasp the same weapon with two hands and attack with it, all in the same round? And do the same again next round?
Hex crafter allows you do extend spells by having hexes. You can do things in addition to casting. By doing so you'll have more spells to use as you see fit because hexes supplement. Therefore you enjoy spell combat more because you cast less.
Example:
Flight hex. Now you have multiple uses of flight levitation and feather fall. Spells saved to use in combat.That was my repeated point. Hexes don't shift you away from spells they save them, so you won't miss recall as much and reap the benefits of more spell options too.
Very well put Cavall, and actually made me fully understand your point, and start taking a second look at Hexcrafter.
You need a free hand when you cast. There is nothing stopping you from taking a free action afterwards to regrasp a falchion with your spellcasting hand and spell striking with the two handed weapon. The only reason this doesn't work with spell combat is because it has text that specifically locks the spell to occupying one hand while making a spell combat full round action, turning the action into quasi-TWF(so both hands can't be on the weapon).So I can wield my scimitar/bastard/longsword/falchion in one had, cast the spell with spellstrike, regrasp the same weapon with two hands and attack with it, all in the same round? And do the same again next round?
Technically what you are actually doing is casting the spell as per normal, regrasping your weapon as a free action, maybe taking a move action and then taking the free action to deliver a touch spell, and choosing to deliver it by attacking with a wielded weapon (which happens to be a falchion or whatever) as per spell strike. The only difference between spellstriking with a one handed and a two handed weapon is with the two handed weapon you have to take a free action at some point to release the weapon before casting so you have a hand free to cast with and another free action to grab the weapon with the free hand after casting so you count as wielding it.
In other words - yes, you can cast a touch spell and then spellstrike with a two handed weapon round after round.
@Kaouse: Thanks for detailed overview on Bladebound. I think I am beginning to have a clearer picture in my head. But what is Arcane Deed, and how was it nerfed? :D
Since you asked, I will enlighten you to a small hint of the devestation that has been done to the Magus class's options with the ACG errata of doom.
Arcane Deed is a Magus Arcana that allows the Magus to select any deed from the Swashbuckler Deed List using his Magus level as his Swashbuckler level. At the time, this included deeds such as Precise Strike and Evasive.
Precise Strike (Ex): At 3rd level, while she has at least 1 panache point, a swashbuckler gains the ability to strike precisely with a light or one-handed piercing melee weapon (though not natural weapon attacks), adding her swashbuckler level to the damage dealt. To use this deed, a swashbuckler cannot attack with a weapon in her other hand or use a shield other than a buckler. She can even use this ability with thrown light or one-handed piercing melee weapons, so long as the target is within 30 feet of her. Any creature that is immune to sneak attacks is immune to the additional damage granted by precise strike, and any item or ability that protects a creature from critical hits also protects a creature from the additional damage of a precise strike. This additional damage is precision damage, and isn't multiplied on a critical hit. As a swift action, a swashbuckler can spend 1 panache point to double her precise strike's damage bonus on the next attack. This benefit must be used before the end of her turn, or it is lost. This deed's cost cannot be reduced by any ability or effect that reduces the amount of panache points a deed costs (such as the Signature Deed feat).
In short, take this deed, get your level to damage. This makes the Magus (and of course, the Swashbuckler) competitive in terms of dealing damage compared to 2 handed weapon users, who get 1.5x STR to damage & 1.5x Power Attack.
Everything changed when the ACG Errata attacked.
Page 104—In the Arcane Deed magus arcana, after the
second sentence, add the following sentence: “Even if he
gains a panache pool through another means, the magus
is not considered to have at least 1 point in his panache
pool for the purpose of deeds selected with arcane deed,
and his effective swashbuckler level for determining
such a deed’s effect is 0.”
In an over-reaching attempt to stop the use of Precise Strike, they made it almost impossible for the Magus to use ANY Swashbuckler deed. There are less deeds that the Magus can use compared to ones that he can't, as a result of this errata. And all the ones he could use, are absolutely not worth it. Remember, the Magus can't regain Arcane Pool like the Swashbuckler can recover Panache. Arcane Pool Points are at a premium, and nothing else in the Swashbuckler deed list is halfway worth it.
That's not the only overreaching errata that aims to sandbag the Magus class. Since the Magus is required to one-hand a weapon, begins with only light armor proficiency, and is expected to be in melee to use his abilities, the class lends itself very heavily to being as DEX based as possible. But the one feat for Dex-to-damage in the ACG was yet again completely destroyed to make sure Magi cannot make use of it.
In the Slashing Grace feat’s benefit, in the
first sentence, after “kind of” add “light or”. After the
final sentence, add “You do not gain this benefit while
fighting with two weapons or using f lurry of blows, or
any time another hand is otherwise occupied.”
Now,bad is it may be (considering it damns the use of ANYTHING in your hand, which includes Swashbuckler-specific items like the Swordmaster's flair, as well as things like natural weapons, or even just taking iterative attacks with a different weapon from the first--even two of the same weapon using only iteratives is now banned), it may not apply to Spell Combat, since your hand is free right? Wrong. The FAQ immediately following this errata points out that it specifically f*#~s up use of Spell Combat.
Slashing Grace: In the 2nd printing errata, what exactly does it mean that “You do not gain this benefit while fighting with two weapons or using flurry of blows, or any time another hand is otherwise occupied?” Can I use a shield? What about a buckler? Can I use flurry of blows? Brawler’s flurry? Two-weapon fighting? Spell combat? Attack with natural weapons? What if I throw the weapon? What about swordmaster’s flair?
Slashing Grace does not allow most shields, but bucklers work because they don’t occupy the hand. Flurry of blows, brawler’s flurry, two-weapon fighting, and spell combat all don’t work with Slashing Grace. Attacking with natural weapons beyond the weapon you chose for Slashing Grace also does not work. Slashing Grace only works with melee attacks, not thrown attacks with a melee weapon. Swordmaster’s flair should have a sentence added to it that says “Carrying a swordmaster’s flair counts as having that hand free for the purpose of abilities that require a free hand, though you still can’t hold another object in that hand.”
So yeah, overarching Magus nerfs, everyone!
That said, Fencing Grace came out in a different book, so you can still use old-school Slashing Grace...but only with Rapiers. Then there's Dervish Dance that's been around forever and also gives DEX to damage...but only with Scimitars. Yay, options!
I did think about adding to CON, though it just completely throws my skill points out the window... 4 per level is just sad, sad...
Unfortunately, that's a big weakness of the magus. Thankfully, it's a really versatile class. It's one reason I haven't recommended any archetypes. To me, it sounds like the versatility is what appeals to you about the concept.
But doesn't Frostbite allow for multiple charges also? One per level, right?
Oh, you're right. My bad!
But I have SO few spells... 4 level 1 spells at level 3. Seems so few.
It's not so bad after 1st level, when you'll likely have pearls of power. When you get spell recall, you will always have enough 1st level spells for the job. If you play your spells right, you only need one per combat.
Very well put Cavall, and actually made me fully understand your point, and start taking a second look at Hexcrafter.
The problem with hexcrafter is that hexes are standard actions that cannot be used with spell combat. The magus's big advantage is being able to cast spells and fight at the same time. Hexcrafter gives you less spells to work with in exchange for abilities you can't use while you attack. It's a great archetype, but keep this trade off in mind when looking at it. It's good when combined with the bladebound since hexcrafters have less need for arcane pool points.
The difference between a Strength Magus and a Dex Magus is that Paizo hates Dex Magi. Especially Bladebound Kensai.
By RAW, Precise Strike wouldn't have worked for a Magus even before the errata. Look at the first sentence of the description:
At 3rd level, while she has at least 1 panache point, a swashbuckler gains the ability to strike precisely with a light or one-handed piercing melee weapon (though not natural weapon attacks), adding her swashbuckler level to the damage dealt.
Arcane Deed says nothing about using your Magus level in place of the Swashbuckler level, just that deeds can be selected as if the Magus was a Swashbuckler of the same level.
This means that a 20th level Magus that chose Precise Strike via Arcane Deed would do +0 extra damage, because they have no Swashbuckler levels.
On the other hand, the errata is a serious nerf, and hurts the arcana's utility.
The difference between a Strength Magus and a Dex Magus is that Paizo hates Dex Magi. Especially Bladebound Kensai.The problem is that Dex Magi want have their cake and to eat it as well. The old pardigm is that you went Strength for raw Damage, and Dexterity for AC, Initiative, and Reflex saves. Now Dex players want the only advantage that Strength players still have.
I think a lot fewer people would be upset about the Arcane Deed change if it gave you effective swashbuckler levels but flat out prohibited Precise Strike.
The Slashing Grace thing is just unnecessary. The magus is back to choosing between a Scimitar or a Rapier. The thing that makes it silly is that even with free dex to damage(1x only when two handing) those two are still the best choices unless you can get free exotic proficiency. So really all Paizo has done is shoot down all but some of the most optimal options for weapon choice.
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The difference between a Strength Magus and a Dex Magus is that Paizo hates Dex Magi. Especially Bladebound Kensai.
I've got a dex-based magus that wasn't neutered by the errata. My wife also has a dex-based magus. Both of which are very effective and neither of which used anything from the ACG that got erratad. They were viable before and they're still viable now.
They're both dex-based so they've obviously got some commonalities, but they're not really built the same.
Note that combats in pathfinder are generally fast and furious, and some posters will say combat is decided in 3 rounds. That gives rise to the nova-shocking grasp builds. I feel that Frostbite and chill touch are less useful until you get monstrous physique forms, where you can discharge multiple charges of frostbite(doesn't work on undead) and chill touch per round. Then you can really wrack up damage.
I can understand the basis behind the nova builds, and their effectiveness, but I can't shake the feeling they become one trick ponies. My reasoning being: Magus are DPR classes, and that is usually their focus > if to DPR they need to use their nova spell (say Shocking Grasp for example), then they will have to consistently and repeatedly use that shtick to cause damage, or basically to fulfill their role > in my head, this means they are tied up in their spell selection, to be able to fulfill their role.
I understand this is probably too simplistic, but it is also the reason why I am looking to build a Magus that can make a difference, even if only for example using his Arcane Pool and Arcane Strike. And then has the option to add onto that when needed.
Oh and frostbite can never become a cantrip and the golden rule of casters(even 2/3rd casters) is please do NOT multiclass, its not worth it. If you really have to, try to get magical knack, but you wont be able to get magical lineage as both are magic traits.
Yep, I got that one now ;)
Question: If not multiclassing, and not taking Magical Knack, what would be your go to Trait? Reactionary?
If I were to redo my hexcrafter today, I'd start as an elf, with the following stats(after racials):
Str 14, dex 14, con 12, int 18, wis 10, cha 8
FCB to extra magus arcana, +2 to pen SR
Reactionary is a good solid trait for init, if you don't want a wayang spell hunter/magical lineage combo.
Question: Why the reduced Strength and such increased Intelligence? What prompted you to find this to be the best option? Also, wouldn't you trade a point in Int to increase your Con a tad?
@Kaouse: Thank you a LOT for the explanation regarding Magus mechanics, choices and the recent nerfs. I had read about it in the boards, but now I think I actually grasp it in full.
I have a couple of questions though:
- I know it is a little offtopic but, when I compare STR and DEX based characters, I am expecting the STR based ones to pull ahead as far as damage goes. That being said, we have a class that seems overall well built and with strong capabilities - it seems to be fully functional and actually quite brutal when based off DEX, so wouldn't actually allow it to pile on bonuses to damage based on character level be over the top?
What I mean is, if you fight 1h to be able to use spell combat, which in turn can be used to boost your offensive capability tremendously (amongst other things), isn't that enough? Aren't you supposed to be 'giving up' the benefits offered by two handing a weapon to be allowed to enjoy other benefits? Isn't that how it is supposed to be?
Also, 1h fighting should never actually allow you to deal as much damage as 2h right? Or it would make 2h fighting void. You don't deal as much damage, but you have other advantages.
Am I looking at it completely wrong? Why should a 1h combatant be competitive in terms of damage, when compared to a 2h one?
The difference between a Strength Magus and a Dex Magus is that Paizo hates Dex Magi. Especially Bladebound Kensai.The problem is that Dex Magi want have their cake and to eat it as well. The old pardigm is that you went Strength for raw Damage, and Dexterity for AC, Initiative, and Reflex saves. Now Dex players want the only advantage that Strength players still have.
I think this was probably my question with the wall of text I wrote in the post above :D
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Elves have -2 for con score. That makes a 16 for con to point buy unrealistic - I'd need to spend 5 extra points. Dropping int to 17 after racials only frees up 3 points. Sure, I could dump cha further, but these days I try not to dump stat. Increased intelligence mainly to maximise hex dc, not to mention prehensile hair hex triggers off int, so my attack stat is Int as well. Prehensile hair hex also has 10 ft reach.
Elves have -2 for con score. That makes a 16 for con to point buy unrealistic - I'd need to spend 5 extra points. Dropping int to 17 after racials only frees up 3 points. Sure, I could dump cha further, but these days I try not to dump stat. Increased intelligence mainly to maximise hex dc, not to mention prehensile hair hex triggers off int, so my attack stat is Int as well. Prehensile hair hex also has 10 ft reach.
Don't forget that Arcane Accuracy scales off int.
You should even have plenty of points to use with it, since you aren't going to be burning points on spell recall.
For a 'base Magus' would the reasoning be similar? Int is of course still paramount, but is it as important?
Also... Questions:
- How are you using your hair to fight? Prehensile Hex?
- If so, it is limited in use, correct?
- Also, doesn't it work like a 'secondary' attack with a poor base damage (1d3)?
- Last but not least, could you attack with your hair, wield a shield, and still be considered to have one hand free for Spell Combat? :o
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PFS = 5 encounters per session. At lv 5, you have enough for it. Hair works for spell combat. It works as a primary attack if you only have a single attack.
If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature's full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 times the creature's Strength bonus on damage rolls.
Shields screw up your spell casting so I suggest not. Also shields have ACP for the non profecient so I recommend not.
PFS = 5 encounters per session. At lv 5, you have enough for it. Hair works for spell combat. It works as a primary attack if you only have a single attack.
If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature's full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 times the creature's Strength bonus on damage rolls.
Shields screw up your spell casting so I suggest not. Also shields have ACP for the non profecient so I recommend not.
Mithril Bucklers don't have ACP or spell failure.
Here's the thing, I've read about a million posts on Prehensile Hair + Winter Witch + Hexcrafter, abut to be honest, I wasn't enlightened as to how it works, or if it even works.
PFS = 5 encounters per session. At lv 5, you have enough for it. Hair works for spell combat. It works as a primary attack if you only have a single attack.
If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature's full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 times the creature's Strength bonus on damage rolls.
Does this mean one will never be able to attack more than once?
I have to apologize for the continual questioning Just a Mort, but... This means you will expend the rest of your days betting on a single attack per round? We're still talking about a martial class (or at least partially so), right?
I've taken in all the feedback you have provided, so its time to try my hand at a build again:
AC 16 (+4 armor, +2 Dex)
hp 16 <- 8[Base] + 2[Con] +6[Tribal Scars (Ice chasm)]
Fort +4, Ref +3, Will +2
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee longsword +3 (1d8+3/19-20)
Melee scimitar +3 (1d6+3/18/20)
Special Attacks arcane pool (+1, 3 points), spell combat
Magus Spells Prepared (CL 1st; concentration +3)
. . 1st-Frostbite, shield
. . 0 (at will)—arcane mark, detect magic, daze
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Statistics
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Str 17, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 8
Feats Rime Spell, Tribal Scars
Traits magical lineage, magical knack (Magus)
Skills Intimidate +3, Knowledge (arcana) +6, Perception +1, Spellcraft +6, Use Magic Device +3
. . [Ice chasm: You gain a +1 bonus on Reflex saves and a +2 bonus on Climb checks]
Other Gear lamellar (leather) armor, longsword, scimitar
So, assuming we are talking about a melee damage dealer, at level 1 this guy is basically a fighter, but weaker. Keep in mind I say this without any derision whatsoever, just checking my facts.
He swings at d20+3 [+4 with Arcane Pool], for d6+3 damage [+4 with Arcane Pool]. If going 2h the damage numbers shift ecer so slightly to d6+4 (+5 with Arcane Pool), so it may not even be worth it. I don't know how to factor in Critical chances here.
Of course Spell Combat would allow me to attack twice at +1 [+2 with Arcane Pool] for the same damage numbers above, but it isn't likely I'll manage to hit anything with these numbers.
Most definitely, some things will change over the levels, mainly if grabbing Power Attack and Arcane Strike along the road, while increasing STR to 18 at level 4, but I wanted to know if I am looking at it correctly for the time being.
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If you do not use spellcombat or any form of transmutation to turn into something that gives multiple natural attacks, then yes, you get a single attack per round. But you can fish for AOOs. Later you will have plenty of spells to turn you into something with multiple attacks (alterself (troglodyte), Monstrous physique (Gargoyles)) .
You probably can't use your prehensile hair hex when you're using those transmutations as those things didn't have hair the last time I looked.
Is prehensile hair associated with a hand for the purposes of spell combat?
Re: the build, at level one I would prep color spray and grease. Occasionally those spells just wreck somebody or some encounters. The rest of the time you two hand a greatsword and use the arcane pool. Spell combat just isn't very sexy at level one or two.
For Kingmaker, I made a dwarf barbarian 1/magus 7 wielding a dwarven waraxe.
I took the level in barbarian mostly for the speed boost (I had tried playing a Small, Slow tank in another campaign, and it was a disaster!), but really enjoyed the extra class points and skills (Acrobatics and Perception in particular) and the Rage, of course.
It was a 25 point buy, so I had something like
16 Str, 13 Dex (14 at 4th), 14 Con, 14 Int (15 at 8th), 10 Wis, 6 Cha
Traits: Berserker of the Society/Magical Lineage (shocking grasp)
Feats:
1. Power Attack
3. Dodge
5. Combat Reflexes
6. Arcane Strike
7. Intensify Spell
Spells commonly used:
enlarge person, shocking grasp, burning hands, shield, mirror image, frigid something, bear's endurance, bull's strength
Didn't get to use fly or haste yet.
Main tactic was to cast enlarge person and activate Arcane Strike or Enchant Weapon and then rage and wield the dwarven waraxe two-handed and Power Attacking, which was like 2d8+14.
Also, spell combat and spellstrike, of course. Never got to try that arcane mark trick. Sounds good for a dwarf if I can leave runes on my foes.
Obviously, I wasn't crit fishing. :-P
So the theory is that you're growing hair out of your palms?