Boom, headshot!


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

1 to 50 of 62 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>

So how far can you shoot in Pathfinder? If you have infinite wealth, any number of helpers, and up to 20 levels, how far could you shoot a nonmagical arrow, bolt, or bullet? You cannot use a siege engine (ballista, trebuchet, catapult, cannon, etc.) or any technology guide stuff. The projectile cannot travel primarily through magical means, such as teleportation, though you may have your weapon have spells cast upon it. You cannot have commoner railguns or handoff chains or similarly strange things. Bonus points for being able to accurately hit something with the bolt and deal respectable damage. Extra bonus points if you can yell "Snipe Evil" while doing so.

So, any sniper builds?


My Self wrote:

So how far can you shoot in Pathfinder? If you have infinite wealth, any number of helpers, and up to 20 levels, how far could you shoot a nonmagical arrow, bolt, or bullet? You cannot use a siege engine (ballista, trebuchet, catapult, cannon, etc.) or any technology guide stuff. The projectile cannot travel primarily through magical means, such as teleportation, though you may have your weapon have spells cast upon it. You cannot have commoner railguns or handoff chains or similarly strange things. Bonus points for being able to accurately hit something with the bolt and deal respectable damage.

So, any sniper builds?

I believe the rules state that it's something like 2-5 miles.

And you don't need anything to do it. A level 1 Warpriest with access to the Air Blessing can do it with a mundane Longbow can make a Called Shot against someone's Heart at the maximum range allowed by the rules and hit just as easily as if they were within the first Range Increment of that bow.

If you've got a lv2 Alchemist buddy with the Infusion Discovery, he can pass you a True Strike Infused Extract, you drink it, and next round you fire at your enemy's eye from miles away and are all-but guaranteed to hit.

Range Increments are supposed simulate the inaccuracy and inability to fire at ridiculously long distances, but the Air Blessing completely says "f+@+ you" to physics and lets you shoot the maximum distance an arrow can be shot without penalty.


Yeah, but how far is the maximum range increment thing? I'm looking at a Distance Heavy Crossbow and thinking that we could shoot further than 2400 feet with some more feats/magic/class levels.


Can you shoot far enough that you have to worry about the curvature of Golarion?


Is this going to be a sneak attack every hit because you are beyond visible range build?


Torbyne wrote:
Is this going to be a sneak attack every hit because you are beyond visible range build?

You can only Sneak Attack within 30ft of yourself.

The Exchange

Range: Any attack at more than this distance is penalized for range. Beyond this range, the attack takes a cumulative –2 penalty for each full range increment (or fraction thereof) of distance to the target. For example, a dagger (with a range of 10 feet) thrown at a target that is 25 feet away would incur a –4 penalty. A thrown weapon has a maximum range of five range increments. A projectile weapon can shoot to 10 range increments.

Get a good range stat.


Nohwear wrote:
Can you shoot far enough that you have to worry about the curvature of Golarion?

I thought I was asking the questions. :P

torbyne wrote:
Is this going to be a sneak attack every hit because you are beyond visible range build?

Let's add Seeking onto the weapon and find out.

Edit: Got ninja'ed, and answered. :(


A lv4 Warpriest with a +1 Heavy Crossbow, access to the Air Blessing, a Scroll of Longshot and an Infused Extract of True Strike can fire 2600ft. with a +24+Dex to-hit on one hit, with no Range penalties to hit.


Are Mythic rules allowed? :D


Uh, well, you've got 20 levels. So I guess?

I still feel that 2600 isn't far enough. Maybe a Flight Arrow on a Distance Longbow?


My Self wrote:

Uh, well, you've got 20 levels. So I guess?

I still feel that 2600 isn't far enough. Maybe a Flight Arrow on a Distance Longbow?

Lv4 Warpriest with a +1 Longbow Sacred Weapon'd into a +1 Distance Longbow with Air Blessing and Longshot Active firing a Flight Arrow is still "only" 2800 ft., which is still well more than half a mile.

(110ft. + 20ft + 10ft) x 2 x 10 = 2800ft.


chbgraphicarts wrote:
If you've got a lv2 Alchemist buddy with the Infusion Discovery, he can pass you a True Strike Infused Extract, you drink it, and next round you fire at your enemy's eye from miles away and are all-but guaranteed to hit.

If we're talking Called Shots from Ultimate Combat, True Strike turns a Called Shot into a normal one.


Sniper goggles would let you Sneak attack at range.


My Self wrote:
Uh, well, you've got 20 levels. So I guess?

Oh, if Mythic is allowed then just take this Champion path ability and make sure your ranged attack bonus is high:

Limitless Range (Ex): Multiply the range increment on all of your ranged and thrown weapons by 5 feet, and these weapons no longer have a maximum range increment for you. You can throw any melee weapon as if it had a range increment of 20 feet—this increment isn't multiplied by 5, but the weapon doesn't have a maximum range increment.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Milo v3 wrote:
My Self wrote:
Uh, well, you've got 20 levels. So I guess?

Oh, if Mythic is allowed then just take this Champion path ability and make sure your ranged attack bonus is high:

Limitless Range (Ex): Multiply the range increment on all of your ranged and thrown weapons by 5 feet, and these weapons no longer have a maximum range increment for you. You can throw any melee weapon as if it had a range increment of 20 feet—this increment isn't multiplied by 5, but the weapon doesn't have a maximum range increment.

*slow clap*

That + Warpriest with Air Blessing + Seeking = Infinite Range

Now I know who to blame when I get sniped from Pluto.

So for the sake of not-infinite sniping, how can we do it without mythic rules?


Off the shelf, heavy crossbow has 120' range increment, so at most it can shoot 1,200' without any modificaitons. You're at -10 to do that, since I'm going to assume you'd also pick up Far Shot as a feat, but it's a reasonable effect to shoot that far. Composite longbows get 110', for 1,100' max range.

'Of Distance' doubles the range increment, so we're at 2,400' at -20 (not counting the normal +X bonuses) for crossbow, 2,200' for longbow.

For Fighters, the Archer archetype adds 25' to range increment, so that puts them at 2,450' for shooting.

So, -10 to shoot almost half a mile, and all you spent was a +1 bonus and a feat that usually does go neglected, but part of the archery chain of 'ow ow ow ow ow'. A decent start?


So wait, 18 levels of Fighter (Archer) will net +25 to range increments. 1 level of Warpriest with the Air blessing will get the ability to ignore range penalties. A longbow hits at 110 feet. Distance arrow for +20 feet. Then this for another 60 feet.

So [(110x2)+20+25]x10+60 = 2710

Unless I did the maths wrong?


My Self wrote:
or any technology guide stuff.

Aww! Booooo! The first thing I thought of was the 2000ft. maximum range on the railgun!


Someone should send spirits to space with a portable hole.
then make a sniper who can shoot so far they can fire from their home through the portable hole, to hit someone anywhere in the world


But the real question is whether the sniper can actually pick out his target at that range with a -240 or so to his Perception check.


There are ways to get around range penalties, such as a War Priest's Air blessing. As for spotting your target, there is always divination magic.

Sovereign Court

HalifaxDM wrote:
But the real question is whether the sniper can actually pick out his target at that range with a -240 or so to his Perception check.

Depends whether they have a telescope. For 8k you can get a 250x telescope. Seems to imply that it'd reduce perception check penalties by something in that ballpark. (Like a lot of mundane gear - such isn't actually spelled out.)


If we got this many levels why not throw some Zen archer on him? 1 ki point increases his range increment by 50 ft and he gets perfect strike, letting him roll to hit 3 timea and taking the best :p. Oh and you can use Wis for archery now lol


So replace 4 levels of Fighter with 4 levels of Zen Archer? Sounds good.

So we've got a Fighter (Archer) 14/Monk (Zen Archer) 4/Warpriest 1, using Flight arrows and a +x Distance Seeking Composite Longbow.


HalifaxDM wrote:
But the real question is whether the sniper can actually pick out his target at that range with a -240 or so to his Perception check.

I like the idea of a forward observer. Imagine a grizzled GI in a foxhole observing the target. (Even though the game's in fantasy medieval times, I want to imagine that.)


Charon's Little Helper wrote:
HalifaxDM wrote:
But the real question is whether the sniper can actually pick out his target at that range with a -240 or so to his Perception check.
Depends whether they have a telescope. For 8k you can get a 250x telescope. Seems to imply that it'd reduce perception check penalties by something in that ballpark. (Like a lot of mundane gear - such isn't actually spelled out.)

Hehehe ... I suppose but I would imagine the crossbow would have to mounted on the telescope instead of vice versa. The thing weighs 44 lbs and likely stands 4 feet or so in height since the things are made to view celestial bodies. I guess it could be part of some crazy long-distance tri-pod mounted defense system.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Milo v3 wrote:
My Self wrote:
Uh, well, you've got 20 levels. So I guess?

Oh, if Mythic is allowed then just take this Champion path ability and make sure your ranged attack bonus is high:

Limitless Range (Ex): Multiply the range increment on all of your ranged and thrown weapons by 5 feet, and these weapons no longer have a maximum range increment for you. You can throw any melee weapon as if it had a range increment of 20 feet—this increment isn't multiplied by 5, but the weapon doesn't have a maximum range increment.

I appreciate the fact that you turn your range increment into area instead of distance.


Serisan wrote:
Milo v3 wrote:
My Self wrote:
Uh, well, you've got 20 levels. So I guess?

Oh, if Mythic is allowed then just take this Champion path ability and make sure your ranged attack bonus is high:

Limitless Range (Ex): Multiply the range increment on all of your ranged and thrown weapons by 5 feet, and these weapons no longer have a maximum range increment for you. You can throw any melee weapon as if it had a range increment of 20 feet—this increment isn't multiplied by 5, but the weapon doesn't have a maximum range increment.

I appreciate the fact that you turn your range increment into area instead of distance.

Mwahahaha. 'OK, you target everyone within a 550 square foot area with your shot. I hope you're OK with collateral damage.'


Qaianna wrote:
Serisan wrote:
Milo v3 wrote:
My Self wrote:
Uh, well, you've got 20 levels. So I guess?

Oh, if Mythic is allowed then just take this Champion path ability and make sure your ranged attack bonus is high:

Limitless Range (Ex): Multiply the range increment on all of your ranged and thrown weapons by 5 feet, and these weapons no longer have a maximum range increment for you. You can throw any melee weapon as if it had a range increment of 20 feet—this increment isn't multiplied by 5, but the weapon doesn't have a maximum range increment.

I appreciate the fact that you turn your range increment into area instead of distance.
Mwahahaha. 'OK, you target everyone within a 550 square foot area with your shot. I hope you're OK with collateral damage.'

That would make a very, very interesting build. Scatter firearms, anybody?


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

The other thing to factor in is damage. An obvious way to accomplish that is sneak attack. The Slayer can be made into a rather solid sniper build, including using its Sniper archetype to reduce penalties.

A straight Zen Archer (or Zen archer with monk's robes and some dips) can get its arrow damage up to 2d10. Combine that with a wand of Gravity Bow and the vital strike line and you start to get really scary damage.

Edit: Yeah, and if you get enlarged person with that, and some full BAB dips to qualify for Greater Vital Strike... I'm calculating you can do 24d8 damage on one shot. That's an average of 108 damage before any other modifiers.


But straight Zen Archer or Slayer doesn't get all the juicy range increment increases from Fighter (Archer). Still, Vital Strike chain and Gravity Bow seems reasonable. If only there was space in 20 levels to fit in 1 level of Bloodrager and a scaling full caster level to get Blooded Arcane Strike.


All you NEED is 4 levels of Zen Archer to gt the range increment increase,


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
My Self wrote:
But straight Zen Archer or Slayer doesn't get all the juicy range increment increases from Fighter (Archer). Still, Vital Strike chain and Gravity Bow seems reasonable. If only there was space in 20 levels to fit in 1 level of Bloodrager and a scaling full caster level to get Blooded Arcane Strike.

You're right, but a Zen archer with a distance enchanted bow has a sniping range of 3200 feet. The archer stuff only adds... 500 feet to that? How much damage is worth that trade off when you are already well over half a mile away?

The other thing to figure out is what can you do to increase your chance of threatening a crit. Bracers of the Falcon would be mandatory. The Zen Archer Perfect Strike is the best idea I have so far.

I feel like there must be a spell which can up that range increment further. But I'm also curious if you can get the damage up to "one shot a Balor" levels.


Pixie, the Leng Queen wrote:
All you NEED is 4 levels of Zen Archer to gt the range increment increase,

But then we want as many sets of 4 Fighter (Archer) levels after level 2 to be able to get those range increment boosts, as well as a single Warpriest level with the Air blessing. Buffs can be provided by friends.


Or you can dip One level in Warpriest with the air blessing... Lol


Captain Morgan wrote:

You're right, but a Zen archer with a distance enchanted bow has a sniping range of 3200 feet. The archer stuff only adds... 500 feet to that? How much damage is worth that trade off when you are already well over half a mile away?

The other thing to figure out is what can you do to increase your chance of threatening a crit. Bracers of the Falcon would be mandatory. The Zen Archer Perfect Strike is the best idea I have so far.

I feel like there must be a spell which can up that range increment further. But I'm also curious if you can get the damage up to "one shot a Balor" levels.

Well, the goal is range first, then damage later. No need to one shot a Balor when it can't see you because you're 1/2 a mile away. You just need a forward spotter so that you aim at the right square.


Pixie, the Leng Queen wrote:
Or you can dip One level in Warpriest with the air blessing... Lol

As mentioned earlier in this thread, it only gives you no range penalties, it doesn't make it so you can shoot beyond your maximum range increment. Which is why we're trying to boost range increments right now.


What I'd find useful is stacking order for range increments. Do all increases apply before the Distance enchantment, or does that only apply to the bow's natural range increment?


My Self wrote:
Pixie, the Leng Queen wrote:
Or you can dip One level in Warpriest with the air blessing... Lol
As mentioned earlier in this thread, it only gives you no range penalties, it doesn't make it so you can shoot beyond your maximum range increment. Which is why we're trying to boost range increments right now.

Yes but the damage that a level 19 zen archer can do is quite high. removing range penalties on top.of the high range of the Zen ararcher, you can hit pretty consistantly from far away. Range means nothing if yu also cant hit what ypur aimong for


Pixie, the Leng Queen wrote:
Yes but the damage that a level 19 zen archer can do is quite high. removing range penalties on top.of the high range of the Zen ararcher, you can hit pretty consistantly from far away. Range means nothing if yu also cant hit what ypur aimong for

Correct me if I'm wrong, but:

My Self wrote:

So replace 4 levels of Fighter with 4 levels of Zen Archer? Sounds good.

So we've got a Fighter (Archer) 14/Monk (Zen Archer) 4/Warpriest 1, using Flight arrows and a +x Distance Seeking Composite Longbow.

I thought we were already doing the warpriest thing and hitting accurately?


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
My Self wrote:
What I'd find useful is stacking order for range increments. Do all increases apply before the Distance enchantment, or does that only apply to the bow's natural range increment?

The language is ambigous.

This special ability can only be placed on a ranged weapon. A distance weapon has double the range increment of other weapons of its kind.

"Weapon of its kind" as opposed to something like "double the weapon's range increment" makes me think maybe you should apply the doubling before increases from Zen Archer or Fighter (archer). :(

Here's an idea: use Leadership to snag a Brown Fur Transmuter Arcanist cohort. They can act as your spotter, use Divination spells to locate targets, boost your perception with buffs, use illusions to cloak you, and teleportation as a get away.

AND, they can cast Elemental Body or Form of the Giant II to make you huge size. With the Zen Archer route, this can give you a 12d6 base damage with your bow, and with Gravity Bow and Greater Vital Strike that becomes an average of 168 damage before modifiers.

I'm currently scanning the wizard spells for things which can boost your range.


Captain Morgan wrote:
Here's an idea: use Leadership to snag a Brown Fur Transmuter Arcanist cohort.

Elemental Body is a Personal range spell. Same with Form of the Giant II.

No need for Leadership- read the first post.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

You're forgetting using something like Ring Gates to go in one Ring and out the other.

==Aelryinth


So far, we have:

Warpriest 1 - Air Minor Blessing: No range penalties
Monk (Zen Archer) 4 - Ki Pool power: +50 Range Increment
Fighter (Archer) 14 - Hawkeye power: +20 Range Increment

Composite Longbow: 110 Range Increment
+1: For the enchantments
+1 Distance: x2 Range Increment
+1 Seeking: No miss chance from cover or concealment
+3 Tailwind: +60 Range

Flight Arrow: +20 Range Increment


Aelryinth wrote:

You're forgetting using something like Ring Gates to go in one Ring and out the other.

==Aelryinth

My Self wrote:
The projectile cannot travel primarily through magical means, such as teleportation, though you may have your weapon have spells cast upon it.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
My Self wrote:
Captain Morgan wrote:
Here's an idea: use Leadership to snag a Brown Fur Transmuter Arcanist cohort.

Elemental Body is a Personal range spell. Same with Form of the Giant II.

No need for Leadership- read the first post.

That is why it is Brown Fur Transmuter. They can bypass Personal transmutation limits. :)

And the first post says you can have as many helpers as needed, so I'm not sure why Leadership is off the table.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/arcanist/archetypes/paizo--- arcanist-archetypes/brown-fur-transmuter

Also, I can't believe no one mentioned Longshot. That's +10 to the range increment there.

Other useful spells, whether cast from companions or scrolls:

Bestow Grace of the Champion-- There's your Snipe Evil!

Bloodborne Retirbution-- Can tack on an extra +5 to hit and damage.

Named Bullet, Greater: Auto Crit! It can also tack on an extra 40 damage onto the shot.

Bow Spirit: Not really necessary, but it seems to use all your bonuses so it seems to be able to fire another arrow off for free.

Based on my calculations, and ignoring Tailwing because I don't quite get how it interacts here... The Archer Fighter can snipe at 3200 feat. This assumes the Distance enchantment applies before range increasement. If it applies after, that jumps to 4200 feet.


Nice find with Brown Fur Transmuter. Longshot is a keeper.

Tailwind applies a flat +60.

Leadership isn't necessary because you get these assistants for free. Of any level up to and including 20th, too.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
My Self wrote:

Nice find with Brown Fur Transmuter. Longshot is a keeper.

Tailwind applies a flat +60.

Leadership isn't necessary because you get these assistants for free. Of any level up to and including 20th, too.

Oh! Well then you should be able to get really crazy with the casting support.

The downside to the Archer with Flight Arrows is your damage dice are going to be pretty tiny. This limits the effect of the Vital Strike line, which strikes me as pretty appropriate for the BOOM, Headshot theme. I guess with unlimited casting support the damage can get pretty crazy regardless, but it seems like a cop out.

Also, since you don't reach Archer 17, you lose out on the cool volley trick. One man being able to hit every target in a 15 foot burst at over 3000 feet away is pretty cool.

15 levels of Zen Archer can can nab you a range of at least 2850 feet without flight arrows, at an average 168 damage before weapon modifiers. Once you factor in caster support, we start talking about someone who can one shot things at plenty of range.

Zen Archer Ki Dice: 2d10 >> Giant Form 6d8 >> Gravity Bow 12d6
Greater Vital Strike: 48d6
Named Bullet, Greater: 72d6+40

292 average damage before applying any sort of static modifiers like STR or deadly aim, and those modifiers will mostly be multiplied by 3. With enough spells, feats, and gear you can easily push that mod to over 40 or 50, which when multiplied by an automatic crit will kill plenty of things itself.

So you basically want to lean heavier on the Archer levels to snipe from furthest, but you want more Zen Archer for the biggest possible exploding head.


since we are being crazy. Lvl 7 mysterious stranger + 13 lvls paladin with a 30 Cha, named bullet, and a single deadshot with a double barrel musket. We can throw in some smite evil to make sure all the shots in the deadshot hit.

Deadshot yields 10 BAB based shots @ 1d12+10 = 10d12+100
Auto crit = 40d12+400.....average damage of 660 if all attacks (vs touch) in deadshot hit. There is some other stuff in there too (statics that don't matter and some bonus damage from named bullet).

1 to 50 of 62 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / General Discussion / Boom, headshot! All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.