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Having finished my experiments with monster role templates, I'm going to practice archetypes next. My first attempt is a 'prepared' version of the summoner:
Origami Master (Summoner Archetype)
It's pretty much a first draft and I'm sure that some wording needs to be clarified. Please let me know what you think.
Scribe Scroll replaces Life Link? So Origami Masters cannot sacrifice hit points and there are no restrictions on how far away from the summoner the eidolon can go?
Bond Senses might make more sense to be replaced.
Dotting for later.
Thank you for taking the time to read and comment.
Scribe Scroll replaces Life Link? So Origami Masters cannot sacrifice hit points and there are no restrictions on how far away from the summoner the eidolon can go?
Bond Senses might make more sense to be replaced.
Good catch. I originally planned to change the eidolon as well (which I still may or may not do), and then decided against it for simplicity's sake. Bond Senses is propably a better choice.
The scroll origami thing looks pretty cool, but it seems just a bit too expensive and time-consuming to use on a regular basis. Sure, you can bust out some amazing summons for bossfights, but you lose the advantage of versatility. Perhaps some way to prebuff summons for free (maybe only 1 prebuffed summon at a time) and a way to "refold" prepared summons (limited uses a day?).
Making up for the loss of versatility (while still being fun to play) is the real challenge here. I originally considered the possibility of adding evolutions to the summoned creatures, but sharing the eidolon's evolution pool would make this a subpar option. Maybe the summons could have their own evolution pool (with a limited 'refolding' ability to change evolutions on the fly)?
Are there any changes to the eidolon? Perhaps ability to access that monster template for the cost of evolution points or something?
Haven't figured out that one yet (I'm still considering making the summons stronger at expense of the eidolon's power), but I guess your proposal makes sense.
Would it hurt to add a constant feather fall, but -4 to saves against wind effects to the monster template? Weakness to fire is thematic, but hurts quite a bit.
I like the feather fall idea, though I'm afraid that it is a bit too specific to come up on a regular basis. Resist energy is on the summoner's spell list, so there are ways to deal with vulnerability to fire.
Do the summons keep the celestial/fiendish templates?
I feel like they shouldn't. In any case, it needs to be addressed properly.
This looks more like an INT-based class than a CHA based class.
That would make sense flavorwise.
Thanks for your input, this is very helpful! I'll keep it in mind when I'm working on my second draft.
I really like the idea of preparing monsters the same way you prepare spells. In some ways, I kind of wish the summoner class was more like that -- a mage that prepares monsters instead of spells.
You lose a lot for a relatively small gain in this archetype. Summon monster no longer provokes AoOs, but you have to put the monster in an adjacent square. You lose what makes eidolons so tanky in order to get an item creation feat that's awful on a 6-level spontaneous caster. You sacrifice three abilities to get a little action economy benefit to cast spells on summon creatures (which there's rarely a reason to do so) only if you sacrifice a scroll.
Rite Publishing Way of the Samurai offers a wizard archetype called Onmyoji that uses origami for his spell components, has Origami Caster which replaces Scribe Scroll, and a shikigami as a familiar. Origami Caster might be something you'd replace Scribe Scroll with your own build, though the rest of the archetype is something completely different.
You lose a lot for a relatively small gain in this archetype. Summon monster no longer provokes AoOs, but you have to put the monster in an adjacent square. You lose what makes eidolons so tanky in order to get an item creation feat that's awful on a 6-level spontaneous caster. You sacrifice three abilities to get a little action economy benefit to cast spells on summon creatures (which there's rarely a reason to do so) only if you sacrifice a scroll.
I agree. I'll try to come up with some better abilities.
I almost feel you'd do well to consider making the EIDOLON the origami, and have an eidolon that functions as any monster off the summon monster list for your level, with an evo pool and templates as needed. So origami summoner becomes more about versatility with a mutable eidolon rather than a static, more powerful, one.
That sounds like a smart suggestion, but it's ultimately not the direction I want to take. One reason I actually don't like the summoner class (aside from completely outsourcing and thereby trivializing the whole exploration aspect of the game) is that players aren't forced to make any meaningful decisions with their character. Being forced to chose your summons in advance requires meaningful choices and (in my opinion) makes the class more interesting.
Now what if your allies could drop origami summons? Having the ability to share summons like the preservationist could make for an interesting mechanic.
While I do like teambased abilities, I'm afraid this would not only mess with action economy, but also lead into master summoner territory (which I'd rather avoid).
But thanks for the preservationist reference, didn't think of that one. It should help me to come up with a better wording.
Rite Publishing Way of the Samurai offers a wizard archetype called Onmyoji that uses origami for his spell components, has Origami Caster which replaces Scribe Scroll, and a shikigami as a familiar. Origami Caster might be something you'd replace Scribe Scroll with your own build, though the rest of the archetype is something completely different.
I admit that I somewhat overestimated the usefulness of Scribe Scroll for a summoner.
Thank you all for your comments.
I'm glad you like the premise! I'll try to post a second draft this weekend.
(The idea here is to practice writing and design on a regular basis. My plan is to create a new archetype every week until I feel more confident and competent.)
Alright, I finished the second draft.
I tried to include several suggestions you made, but wasn't willing to let go of my original idea (using scrolls in the creation of origami to buff the summoned creatures), so I tried to improve it.
I'm afraid this archetype turned out a lot longer and more complicated than originally intended. I'll try to make the next one simpler.
It would make sense for the origami master to be a prepared caster with a spellbook, but I didn't want to stray any further from the base class than I already did.
I think many people overestimate the impact of consumables on character wealth (or underestimate the worth of consumables). I've seen high level wizards running around with a 100k worth of staves without ever using them once, yet they cringe when they have to pay a few hundert bucks to scribe a scroll. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
Another problem I see with your proposal (using spell slots in place of scrolls to buff summoned creatures) is that the summoner won't have a lot to do during combat if he has already expended most of his spell slots.
You are going to want the Advanced Beastiary from Green Ronin for the Ofuda monster template and the Legion of Folded Paper feat. Make the Feat base line for the archetype
I tried an Origami style caster class last year, also based on Summoner. They sacrificed the Eidolon for the ability to cast spells via 'scrolls' created 'on demand'. Well, kinda, they had to consult their Book and inscribe the needed bits of the spell before using it. The playtester was ex-theater and really got into the sloppy mess I was working with. A Charm type spell we were testing became a valentine, a Hold Monster was a cage with the foe scribbled into the drawing.
You are going to want the Advanced Beastiary from Green Ronin for the Ofuda monster template and the Legion of Folded Paper feat. Make the Feat base line for the archetype
Thank you for that reference, I wasn't aware of that one (the name is somewhat misleading though). I don't want the summoner to summon more creatures at the cost of making the summoned creatures weaker (which this template seems to do).
I tried an Origami style caster class last year, also based on Summoner. They sacrificed the Eidolon for the ability to cast spells via 'scrolls' created 'on demand'. Well, kinda, they had to consult their Book and inscribe the needed bits of the spell before using it. The playtester was ex-theater and really got into the sloppy mess I was working with. A Charm type spell we were testing became a valentine, a Hold Monster was a cage with the foe scribbled into the drawing.
Interesting, but I'm not sure if I understand correctly. Giving up your eidolon seems like a big deal. How exactly did you make up for this with free scrolls?
Didn't see your post till your new one for this week, but I just need to say I am nearly in tears (of joy) for seeing a Maggie Mui themed archetype.
Glad you like it. I always feel completely lost when people start to mention manga/anime characters (never got into it).
Glad you like it. I always feel completely lost when people start to mention manga/anime characters (never got into it).
Sorry for losing you then. We're even though, as I get lost when people say "I'm not into anime" as if it's one tiny thing rather than the giant chunk of media that it is, like books or live-action film. There's a lot of anime I strongly dislike. There's some anime I like. Much the same with games, books, movies, etc. It's not some giant monolithic thing you have to like all or none of. Though I guess there are people who never read any books at all or never watch any live-action movies either. :)
I actually presumed Maggie was the source of inspiration due to her quasi-unique take on paper powers (although course she is one of many paper masters in her world, as the sequence shows). My mistake.
(As an aside, if you enjoy the idea of a global espionage/detective tale with superpowers--largely but not only paper themed--and a strong literary theme, I highly recommend Read or Die and its sequel R.O.D the TV. Not because it is anime, but because it is an excellent, if pulpy, series of stories with fantastic characters. If nothing else, good research for visualizing what paper magic can look like. :) )
Sorry if I came over as judgemental or condescending. I'd like to think of myself as an open-minded person. I'm curious by nature and I take my inspiration from many different sources.
I did in fact watch several anime classics and certain shows that were recommended to me by friends who know my personal taste and preferences. It just didn't appeal to me on a very basic visual level. I had trouble figuring out what was going on in that video-sequence you provided. As you've said, I'm propably an anime-illerate, similar to certain people who don't enjoy reading books. But that doesn't mean that I belittle your passion for anime.
Sorry if I came over as judgemental or condescending. I'd like to think of myself as an open-minded person. I'm curious by nature and I take my inspiration from many different sources.
I did in fact watch several anime classics and certain shows that were recommended to me by friends who know my personal taste and preferences. It just didn't appeal to me on a very basic visual level. I had trouble figuring out what was going on in that video-sequence you provided. As you've said, I'm propably an anime-illerate, similar to certain people who don't enjoy reading books. But that doesn't mean that I belittle your passion for anime.
Fair enough. :) (And I'm not that passionate for anime, just that particular one. ;) )
The action sequences are jumpy. FWIW she is summoning animated golems, bats, birds, and snakes made of paper to fight for her.
At any rate, I like your archetype ideas and look forward to seeing more!
Looks like I am late to the party but I was looking for something along the lines of Kubo and the Two Strings, and I found this. So saved for later! And anyone interested in this archetype should check out that movie!
BTW Shiroi's suggestion of a reconfigurable eidolon would "look" amazing...the paper lion refolds itself into a giant scorpion!
Glad you like it.
Are there any options that allow summoners to change the eidolon's base form? I guess it would be complicated, because you'd need to have a set of evolutions for each of them.
I could never decide whether to change them into prepared casters with a spellbook.
Good to have some free origami mastery stuff out there. ;)
Are there any options that allow summoners to change the eidolon's base form? I guess it would be complicated, because you'd need to have a set of evolutions for each of them.
Not the game I play in, but another allows an alternate form for 1 E point, to a maximum of casting modifier and a fraction of E points ( no more than a third or half, for example).