Spiritualist phantom can wear armor- yes or no

[Cylerist]

At one point it says the spirit when fully manifested can wear armor and equipment but not wield weapons.
Then under phantom description it says it can't wear armor?
Was this ever cleared up?

[Cylerist]

Pg 73
Fully manifested phantoms can wear armor and use items (though not wield weapons) appropriate to their forms. Any items worn, carried, or held by a phantom are dropped when the phantom returns to the spiritualist’s consciousness, and must be retrieved and donned anew if the phantom wishes to use them when it fully manifests in the future.

PG 78
An ectoplasmic or incorporeal manifested phantom can’t wear armor of any kind, as the armor interferes with the spiritualist’s connection with the phantom;

Which is right?

[Kalindlara]

I was wondering about this myself...

[Chess Pwn]

Mark said he talked with the guy who wrote it and the answer is NO armor. The line on pg. 73 was supposed to be "magic items" in place of armor.

[Rogar Valertis]

As I read it a manifested phanyasm can wear armor but it can't keep it on when it turns back to incorporeal. Which makes it pretty impratical for the phantasm to don the armor anytime he manifests and for the spiritualist to carry around for the phanatsm to wear...

[Doomed Hero]

Did we ever get a reason why a phantom can't wield weapons or armor? Is it a proficiency thing?

Seems like they would be physically capable. I'm curious about the rationale for a hard no.

[Chess Pwn]

I don't have a reason, just that they can't do either ever

[Kando]

Not surprising, make the phantom even weaker then they already are.

Its nice when you have that that anger phantom and with all his "buffs" active he will have like 4ac without maybe items and feats at lvl10 (including the attack bonus for enemies in your aura), just to come close to the damage an equal animal companion can do and dont forget less health then it.

Sounds realy Great

[Rogar Valertis]

Yet he has other powers too. Things like being able to bypass walls and explore dungeons while staying incorporeal. Pretty nifty stuff you average AC can't hope to accomplish...

[Kando]

1. As incorperal he needs to stay within your eyesight.

2. And as corporal he will leave behind ectoplasm on the walls. And cant stay "halfway" in walls.

3. If you are so found of that scout ability, i am afraid i will blow your mind, but....
Gloves of Reconnaissance
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/e-g/glove s-of-reconnaissance

These cheap gloves will always be 100% better then your phantom.
I can only say you paid a very high price for a much weaker but, "at will" version of a 2000g item.
Gratulations

[FLite]

Doomed Hero wrote:

Did we ever get a reason why a phantom can't wield weapons or armor? Is it a proficiency thing?

Seems like they would be physically capable. I'm curious about the rationale for a hard no.

Quote:

An ectoplasmic or incorporeal manifested phantom can’t wear armor of any kind, as the armor interferes with the spiritualist’s connection with the phantom;

Looks like it is similar to the eidolon restriction.

[Cancermantis]

Dude, Kando, you can use the incorporeal form to deliver melee touch attacks at range, and it's not nearly as risky as doing the same with a familiar. Having the eidolon's "come back the next day if you die" ability alone goes well with that, but on top of that a lot of things can't fight back against incorporeal creatures. That's pretty powerful. Not to mention the scouting abilities could be used to ambush as well. Or retrieve objects from behind sealed doors, through the use of Phantom Recall. Its individual abilities might not be impressive on their own, but there's a lot of potential synergies there.

There's way more this thing can do that what me or Rogar mentioned, too. Don't focus on the small number of examples we brought up. Think of the big picture.

[Vattic]

How bad would it hurt things just to let it have armor that doesn't fall off when it changes forms and just becomes one with the phantom? We are talking +16 ac from phantom levels at max + armor doesn't sound game breaking to me, especially when a 20CR red dragon hits on a 38, 38, 38, 36, 36, 36. Enchanted/Magic weapons shouldn't muss things up that badly either.

[TheTheos]

what about ghost touch armor?

[Kando]

Cancermantis wrote:

Dude, Kando, you can use the incorporeal form to deliver melee touch attacks at range, and it's not nearly as risky as doing the same with a familiar. Having the eidolon's "come back the next day if you die" ability alone goes well with that, but on top of that a lot of things can't fight back against incorporeal creatures. That's pretty powerful. Not to mention the scouting abilities could be used to ambush as well. Or retrieve objects from behind sealed doors, through the use of Phantom Recall. Its individual abilities might not be impressive on their own, but there's a lot of potential synergies there.

There's way more this thing can do that what me or Rogar mentioned, too. Don't focus on the small number of examples we brought up. Think of the big picture.

-The deliver touch attack thing is the only real cool and "new" ability for an companion phantom (familiars are diffrent), thats the only part where you are totaly right.

But dont forget if he misses with his touch the spell is gone, he can not hold the charge.
So touch attacks with more then one use are useless, too. Like chill touch for example.
So have fun blowing all your spells per day on this feature.

The only thing that the phantom has that is better then a familiar is that the spiritualist can cast his spell at range and the phantom does not need to return to the spiritualist before delivering like a familiar. But A familiar build right is at least equaly good.

-As you sayd already the the eidolon has the same "ressurrection" ability AND even the unchained eidolon has much more survivability and damage potential. So whats your point?
For Druids and mage familiars, except for when you have a douche for a gm you get your animal companion or familiar relatively soon replaced. And they are MUCH less likely to die in the first place, of a familiar not so much but you can get it on exceptable lvl. Except of course when you let your phantom 24/7 in incorporal manifestation and there are no ghost type enemys. There is an even better archtype for this kind of playstyle.

- The incorporal can only fight other incorporal.
I can only say, if you want a familiar for delivering touch attacks, go get a familiar.

- For scouting there is a nice item that i already showed you and its rather cheap to. For more then just seeing in the next room stuff there are realy good familiars, too.

- So you use/save your phantom recall for a hypotatical, and depending on gm relativly rare scenario, thats fine. But thats something some familars can do for you to, or at least almost as easy.

But you now what, i garantie you if you dont always fight with an incorporal phantom (so you basicaly use it like a familiar) it is far more likly that you use this 2/day ability (at lvl 10) to save your phantom from dieing, for healing or to simple reposition him, so his pityful ac and the following aoo will not kill it or drain you hp even more.

Or you could snap him back on your turn sure but then have fun summoning him for a 10 rounds or lose a meat shield.

To be fair here, you have at least some options left with bonded manifestation, but depending on how much hp you already sacrificed to let him stay alive this will not be much help.
But depending on how you build the spiritualist at least you could/will be a more capable front line fighter then he ever was with this. But if you go that route you should strongly consider the archtype.

Or you let him die and become even more useless for the rest of the day.

So bottom line, except for bonded manifestation, i can only say it again, if you want a familiar go get a familiar. You can even have both at the same time.